Good this be progress in the right direction.

[Lifeisforlivingkatie]

We are both 38, I am divorced with two dc's 7 and 18. He has never been married. We have been together 2.5 years. He stays 4-5 days at mine including every weekend. Helps with the school run and goes on holiday with us.

The problem is, he refused to move in with me twice last year, saying he likes things as they are. I buying a new house and moving inin April. I would love him to move in with me but having been rejected twice, I don't intend to ask.

Anyway this last week, I said to him that I would like us to acquire something as a couple. Something that belonged to us and we both decided upon, she asked what that something would be and I said, I would like us to buy a really nice bed for the new house. I expected him to be all sensible and say we both have beds,,. Anyway he agreed to it and we have spent this weekend visiting furniture shops and agreeing on a budget.

He bought me some lovely flowers and cooked be a 7 course dinner on Friday night, to was so nice so I said to him that I have decided I want to be with him until we grow old so he should by me a diamond or Saphire. I told him we could go to hatton garden in London and get one designed for us. I asked him when would be a good weekend to do this, he said anytime. So I suggested weekend after next. He agreed to come.

Could it be he is changing his mind about living together? Did anyone have a partner resisting living together or marriage? Did you all get a grand romantic proposal? Any advice for me?

Buy your own bed and jewellery

I think you've got trapped down the mental alley of thinking that you are only in a happy, committed relationship if you are living together, mortgage etc ect

But this is 2014 and commitment, families and relationships come in all shapes and sizes now!!

Tbh what you have now sounds perfect. Why push and push to change something that already works. It seems to me there's only one outcome to that!

It seems to me that you expect everyone to simply obey your commands. Regardless of how they feel. "Buy me a ring!" seems like a case in point. How do your kids feel about him moving in? You are not the Queen of Sheba you know. You don't get to tell people what to do!

Fwiw I've been seeing my bf for nearly a year. We spend 4-5 nights a week together. We go on holiday. We help each other out with day to day stuff. And we are both happy. As are our kids. I don't intend to change the arrangement any time soon.

Your friends sound rather shallow saying they wouldn't date anyone who earns less than them. What's that got to do with anything?

Also, imagine if it was the other way round and a man was demanding his female partner buy him diamond jewellery...

One of the most valuable things I have learned from MN is 'when people tell you who they are, listen'

He is happy the way things are. He has said that in those words. He is happy the way things are.
He will be less happy if things change.

The only thing you can do is change your opinion about this situation, learn to live with it, or move on.

You're very influenced by what your friends think, aren't you?

Why on earth should he buy you a diamond?

Is the jewellery demand an expression of exclusivity on your part? So if you're wearing his ring then no shagging about on either side? I don't think that's unreasonable, but communication would be much better.

It sounds to me like you want to understand how committed he is to you as a couple, but you're going at it a bit cack-handed.

Life seriously you can be in a committed relationship wo living together, having a mortgage etc...

People who don't do so for a variety of reasons. Sometimes because they got married before and the divorce was so bad they don't want to be in that position ever again. Sometimes because they want to keep that little of independence, the bit where they are only 'them'. Sometimes because their experience of living together means that they did loose that 'me' completely to only be one part of a 'we'.
Sometimes they found that not being involve in a daily struggle of living together is keeping the relationship alive in a way that living together can't.
I also had a couple telling me that living in 2 different houses was a reminder that they should never take their relationship for granted.

But all of them were in a committed relationship just as if they had been living together.

Commitment isn't about having a mortgage or being under the same roof. Just look at the threads on here and see how many couples aren't committed to each other and are ready to have affairs, financially abuse their partner etc... even though they are 'committed' in that they have a mortgage, a house, some children (and even a bed !) together.

You need to see how you would define commitment. What does it mean to you?
Can you imagine to be with someone but living with him all the time? How would you do if your partner had a job that takes him away on travel every week? Would you say that the relationship isn't good enough because you are on your own some night? Or is it the security that having a mortgage and living together seem to give you ?(Clue: really it doesn't. It probably did 50 years ago when divorce wasn't acceptable but not now)

Momentoftruth, thank you, some sound advice at last, yours and a couple of others comments have been useful, at least you cared to tap into my feelings and got me to explore why I am acting the way I am.

You have made me realise that actually I am seeking a symbolic validation of our relationship and that's what our diamond will symbolise without a whole wedding ceremony. Buying a bed together is also symbolic to us.

I don't believe in knowingly being a victim and if I want something I strive to achieve it, or ask for it. I want the diamond ring, he thinks its a piece of carbon and a good marketing spill by de beers. I think it's kind of cute to wear a ring. It does not substitute the love and care we give each other. It's a bit like flowers, they make someone smile but are meaningless if your actions don't show care.

I broke up with him once over this and I am not doing it again. I suppose i need to change my view of commitment as you say.As a devorcee I know that weddings and diamonds don't mean much. Feelings can mess with ones logic sometimes.

Are you suggesting we cancel our trip to London and bed shopping? Any ideas of alerts give ways of celebrating a solid relationship. Yes my children both like him lots and would like it if he was here daily. He is very good at helping us with homework and sports.

Lots of people gave you the same advice op. But hey.

Like I said I am in a similar position to you but, as I also said, very happy with the status quo. And I personally would not value a ring I had had to ask for, which my DP considered to be a piece of carbon and no more, to be a symbol of his commitment. I would consider what he did, day in day out to show his commitment, to be a symbol of his commitment.

The bed yes. That would make me smile.

DP and I discussed this thread today and decided we would have to stay together forever because we have joint custody of a hot tub

Sorry meant alternatives not alerts. Typing on my phone

Bitoutofpractice, your post has cheered me up and made me laugh, never thought a hot tub was the new de beers, It,s a fabulous idea and a practical one too. also it is shared.

I suggested a cabin exchange , I get a diamond and he gets a cabin fibre bike ( don't get why anyone one spend over 5000 on a bicycle but he is a keen cyclist and it makes him happy)
He treat me and the kids very well and does sweet things daily. He is such a good man. No wonder I want to book the church, bed or hot tub in your case.

Thank you.

Bitoutofpractice, your post has cheered me up and made me laugh, never thought a hot tub was the new de beers, It,s a fabulous idea and a practical one too. also it is shared.

I suggested a carbon exchange , I get a diamond and he gets a carbon fibre bike ( don't get why anyone one spend over 5000 on a bicycle but he is a keen cyclist and it makes him happy)
He treats me and the kids very well and does sweet things daily. He is such a good man. No wonder I want to book the church, bed or hot tub in your case.

Thank you.

katie I have to say when I first read your OP, I was thinking this woman is slightly nuts! Making a guy buy her a ring? Really? Where's the romance in that? However, when I read through the thread, I do sort of understand your POV.

I am dating a fantastic guy after my twunt of a husband left me for OW. When XH first left, I was thinking NO MORE MARRIAGE for me! I think for me failing once in marriage was bad enough, I don't need to do it twice! But even though I have only been dating my boyfriend (he's also separated like me but no issues there as we have both met our respective exes) for a short time, I find myself thinking about marriage again. Not necessary to him but whether I would do it again but if I don't, what is there for us as a couple to 'seal the deal' as such?

However, my boyfriend and I have talked about moving in together (not now, but in the future) so we know that's definitely on the cards if we progress. Marriage I am still undecided about. He says I'm the one and he would do it again, this time for the rest of his life. I would be much too scared of doing it again. So he has also suggested a party to celebrate our love. So sort of like a wedding party with the wedding! Madness...

I think we women have been so conditioned to see marriage as the 'prize' that we forget there are other ways to live that are as valid. Like you said, if your marriage has already failed once, it's not as if rings/diamonds/vows have the same meaning the first time round or do they?

For me, in your case, the issue will be the moving in bit. He sounds he's happy with the status quo (separate living arrangements) but you want him to move in, can you live with the separate living arrangements as such? I think for me, I might not want marriage but I would definitely want my partner to live with me. You have to decide what you want and whether your current arrangement is a deal-breaker. Good luck!

How can the ring be a symbolic validation of your relationship if he thinks it's just a gimmicky bit of carbon?

I think there are lots of ways to validate and celebrate a relationship. But he's choosing not to do any of them. That's fine, bully for him, lots of people would do the same in your circumstances. But some things don't have a half way compromise, if that's what you're looking for.

A gimmicky bit of carbon to him, not to be, why does his opinion matter more than mine? Perhaps some more suggestions of other ways to validate our relationship would me helpful, hot tub was one idea given. I am not sure what you mean he not doing any of them.

I have not asked to move in with for a year.At the time I thought the timing may not have been good for him, hence the reason I have not asked him again. He gave me keys to his place way before he got keys to mine.

I just thought we could maybe progress slowly, he knows I want to live with. I do understand that going from a single person to a girlfriend with two children is a big change.

In your experience are both people ready at the same time? I am sure he would not have got back with me a year ago if he new that he would not comprise in some way. I am compromising y not pushing him to move in now.

Would be good to hear from couples who did not feel ready t the same time!

It's not a case of whose opinion matters more. Symbols are by their nature shared. If one of you reads meaning into it and the other one undermines that then the first person doesn't have the symbolism they want.

How has he had to compromise since getting back with you? I can't see anything to be honest. He could equally be thinking that you wouldn't have got back with him if you weren't willing to accept the status quo.

Op you want us to validate you. You want your dp to validate you. Spot a theme?!?!

OP - he is seeing things entirely differently from you. You think of the bed as 'the marital bed', but to him it is just a bed. You've asked him to buy you a ring. To you, it is an engagement ring. To him, it is just a present, especially as you're saying you'll buy him a bike in return. That's just a couple exchanging gifts, not a commitment for life.

He's been on his own for 38 years. He likes having his own space. However well he gets on with your dc, he does not want to live with you and them as a family.

The fact that he's agreed to these shopping expeditions does not mean he has changed his mind about living together or marriage.

I'm sorry, but there is a fundamental incompatibility here. You do not want the same thing and there is no compromise. If you want the relationship to continue, you will have to accept things as they are. Trying to manoeuvre him into a position where he has made a commitment without noticing it is pointless. The bed and the ring might mean something to you (and your friends) but if it doesn't mean the same thing to him, it's meaningless.

Life the question you want to ask yourself is how do people show their commitment? And do you show your commitment to him, how does he show his commitment to you?

Ime the commitment isn't showing by having a mortgage or getting married. Commitment shows by your daily actions. It's shown by doing rather than by things. (Hope I make sense there!)
It shows when that person clearly thinks about you and cares. It shows when they cancel an activity they have planned because you are unwell. It shows when they are planning with you a trip to go away in a year's time. It shows when it is clear from what they do and say that, in their head, mind and heart, you are there for the long haul.

Then you have the way you can show to other people how committed you are to each other. After all, there was a thread on here not that long ago where one person was invited to a wedding but their DP wasn't. The bride thought it wasn't serious because they weren't living together. So I can see how having no way to 'show' to others that yes this is a committed relationship can be an issue. And how this could be an issue for you.
You need to have a chat with your DP about it. Not about moving in but about commitment and how to show you are in a committed relationship to others. Maybe for you it's that diamond ring. Maybe for him, just being together is enough.
You also need to ask yourself how important it is to live with your DP. Are you happy with the situation like it is? Could you live like that for ever if you knew wo a doubt that this relationship IS a committed relationship? Or is living together actually an essential part of the relationship for you?

BTW unlike some other posters, I don't think things are black and white. One person wants a marriage, the other doesn't, therefore you are incompatible.

I believe that you need to dig deep down to understand why you feel living together is important. Is it because that's 'what you do when the relationship is serious'? Is it really indispensable to be living together? Everyone has a different ideas of what living as a couple means. Some want to spend all their time together and are attached to the hip. Others prefer to have their own interests and will spend quite a bit of time on their own.
And then depending on the answer you might find that, actually, this arrangement is OK for you. Or that it isn't. Have a look.

I only suggested the bed because its a smaller commitment than a joint mortgage

Bilmey that must be one expensive bed !!!!

Bilmey = blimey

"Our diamond"
Hmm...
Bet it won't be "ours" any longer if you split up - it will become "mine" pretty sharpish then I bet.

A bed just like a house or a ring are just things. What is he doing to show you his commitment to him? What do you do to show your commitment?

Momentoftruth, thank you very much, you are making me think, yes some people on here are quick to encourage others to walk away, grass is not always greener. In my opinion anyone you meet will have something you don't like. Relationships are about acceptance and sometimes the road to acceptance can be long.

I have thought about different ways of showing commitment like you have suggested. When we met he played sport everyday, now he plays two week nights keeping the weekends to spend time with me and my son and a date night. he has done this consistely for two years.The nights the two nights he. Stays at his,He calls me for at least an hour before bed so I will be waiting up anyway. He does more cooking than I do and does my business accounts for free saving me a lot of money. He does lots of little nice things consistently.

I will focus on that, I am willing to accept the status quo but I would like a symbolic gesture of our commitment. He has never said we will never live together but at the time I asked he was not ready. I will speak to him tonight to see if he has any suggestions. I suggested a bike because he told me that even if we got married he would not want a wedding ring.