Trials and tribulations of dating a divorcee...

[BananaPassionFruit]

...or is it him making a mess of things?
I found out that DP was going to sleep on his ex's couch on Friday night as he couldn't stay where he normally stays (or so he says) when he's going to see his children. She sent him a text in the middle of the night asking whether he was still coming up. He initially claimed that he had no idea why she was asking that but seeing that I wasn't buying it, he eventually told the story about the sleeping arrangement.
On the basis that I was introduced to the ex when I met the DC, I am not entirely sure I have anything to worry about with regards to the couch itself... However, there was the lie. It feels that I am not being treated with the respect that I deserve to be honest. I wouldn't go to sleep on my ex's couch, I would get a room somewhere. Or I would at the very least talk to my DP about the situation. And then sit there lying to your face???
We've been living together for a few months now, I've met his children once but it seems odd that whilst I am sharing and opening my life to somebody, I only found out about his DCs' birthdays accidentally. One of them he was obviously there for the weekend but never mentioned what they had done, how they had celebrated or even the birthday itself! This weekend was the second one's and again only heard about it on Thursday.

I can't make much sense of what is going through my head at the moment. Most of all, I feel that we (DS and I) are excluded from that part of DP's life. I've always been very opened and these are surely day-to-day things which you at the very least mention to each other: "It's DS' birthday on 00/00 and he's all excited about his party bla bla bla...".

Could be that he had an affair and she told him to go and wouldn't take him back. Maybe she doesn't want her children spending time with other women nor does she want any presents etc from you. If things didn't end well between them then he could be being very sensitive to her through guilt...

I totally understand why you feel left out - really hope in time that you and your child feel more involved in his family as time goes on :-)

There's not any real evidence here that he doesn't care about you - just that he is being a bit daft and not dealing with the situation very well sometimes. And we all know what that's like!

op if this relationship was right for you then you wouldn't have the need to ask about these occurrences and have a defensive feeling when advice is given. These conflicting emotions are your instincts telling you it's wrong. You just dont want it it to be. It's horrible and a wrench to feel a partner could habe you as a back up, so self preservation allows you to dismiss that truth. You deserve a partner who won't make you feel like this and no less.

I don't think she's being defensive? Am I missing something?
I don't think she's back up either.

I don't think she's being defensive? Am I missing something?
I don't think she's back up either.

No - I don't think she's back-up, either.

What would worry me is that the secrecy and compartmentalising may be the result of a history of overlapping relationships. Starting a new one before finishing another. 1st wife to 2nd wife to ??? Was there anyone else, before you, to explain why he left and moved so far away? In those circs, keeping secrets and lying becomes a habit.

Now you may be his Mrs Right. 3rd time lucky. But you need to get through to him that the relationship is not going to last unless you feel totally secure and that means that he needs to be completely open about his children and what he does with them on w/ends when he's not with you. After all, you need to 'know' them, even at a distance, if they're ever going to become part of your life. But, mainly, any suspicion that he's keeping things from you, for whatever reason, is going to have a disastrous effect on your being able to trust him. You are not his OW. You are his primary relationship. There is no reason to spare your feelings about things that are not a threat to you. No reason not to be open if there is nothing to hide.

Don't know how successful you're likely to be on that but Good Luck, anyway.

No, I didn't think I was being defensive either. Like I said previously, I am taking all comments as being well-meant but people can read (interpret) things in completely different ways and it's almost impossible to paint a full picture of the situation on a forum.
Also, it may sound bonkers but I feel less disloyal to DP and our relationship by posting my doubts here, to complete strangers, than if I was to share them with friends. Not that I don't trust my friends but I do feel that I should be more capable of digesting / processing some of these issues (and keeping them behind closed doors) without emotional support from friends. Sometimes it's almost like thinking aloud?? Maybe I should just write it all down and read it back to myself but still good to get other people's perspectives.
I know very little about the divorce other than there was someone else but at that point they had already split up and tried again a few times. The youngest DC was only a baby. That would also explain the guilty feeling although the parent in me still thinks that he shouldn't have moved away in the first place. As for presents, when I suggested bringing something back from my trip away, I did say that I would not be offended if he felt it wasn't appropriate and I really wouldn't. But by the same token, he showers DS not only with presents etc but with his time and attention so I had to at the very least offer to bring something for his DC. I did buy a little token for his eldest before he moved abroad but again, I checked with DP that he was ok with it first.
And as for the ex, a few things have lead me to believe that she still holds a torch...but at the same time, she was pleasant when DP introduced us so unless there's some seriously twisted game being played here...???
He still shouldn't have lied and no, sleeping on ex's couch isn't acceptable. I would much rather he had spent the Valentine's meal money on a hotel room.

Thymeout the 1st and 2nd wives didn't overlap and there's quite an age gap between the two sets of DCs but that's not to say that there weren't other relationships in between. And yes, he moved away for somebody else. They were together for 3 years but broke up a few years ago. I sometimes wonder whether that set the tone for how he handles things as she was much younger and perhaps less understanding of his commitments as a parent?? Or his not so appropriate arrangements to see his children. It's possible. I don't feel threatened by his children, quite on the contrary, I don't give him brownie points for seeing them every other weekend as in my mind (parent cap on), he should be doing much more!
And everything you said in the second paragraph is just right. I've gone through all of that with him and explained. I've also said, in a more generic context, that I would much rather get angry (and be told off for being unreasonable) over something that I don't agree with than be lied to. In my eyes, and I have explained this, it feeds suspicious and completely undermines trust. Right now, I can't see past the fact that I have been treated like an idiot.

Despite him saying it was over before he was embroiled with someone else I would guess that it wasn't over maybe and the relationships overlapped and maybe he did have an affair. This would explain why his ex wife might still hold a torch for him. There is always the scenario that she threw him out and that there is still some feeling left there. It may also be that she is jealous of your relationship and doesn't yet want you involved in her children's life ....

It's very possible. What seems odd to me? Considering she works full-time and is doing pretty much all of the parenting, I find it odd that she sent what seemed like a rather nice text message at 1.30am asking whether he was still coming that night. If I was doing my ex a favour (and he had obviously had plenty of time to sort out his sleeping arrangements), I would have been fuming that he hadn't had the courtesy to let me know about change of plan and I most certainly wouldn't have stayed up until that late waiting for him to turn up (regardless of the bad weather). BUT that is me and I don't get on with my ex. And she's got a dog that barks whenever somebody approaches the house so that would have been enough to wake the whole neighbourhood up anyway.

Then there's the expectation of birthday presents (from the boys but bought by DP) on her birthday - and a text to him calling him names as he had forgotten about it. I've always been happy with a hand-written note from DS and now that he's older, I expect breakfast or something but my circumstances are different.

She's maintained strong ties with his older DC and promptly agreed to them getting a pet for the boys. This was followed by text messages wanting to discuss pet-care arrangements. In other words, I don't see him doing anything to encourage it but given a chance, I believe that she would relish the chance to lure him back in. But I don't want to make this into something bigger than it really is and her feelings are not my concern...??

What is your worse case scenario here. Do you think they are still having sex?

I don't think he is using you either but what he did was really disrespectful to you and your relationship, he must be honest, if you can't trust him then you can't feel good or safe, he needs to be told this and also the rest about including you.

Angel, I really enjoyed your post about expecation and integration. :)

Banana, there's a situation I'm in 2 years on, where my bf has the best of both worlds. He has his dc and everything the way that the kids and his ex want it. And then also he has me and my kids who adore him. He is fully integrated into my life and my family. I am not integrated into his at all and am losing ground. Feel exluded, isolated and insecure. Bottom line he is in my life, I am barely in his or his kids. Despite me being 'the one'...... apparently. People can be very lazy and ultimately just want things the way they want them, the easiest way that suits them. Things were better for me in the beginning, but if you are starting off like this, you will have a constant battle to fight your corner as he won't be doing it for you.

shey02 Thank you, I'm very early on in my journey but have read enough stories on MN to know there are things that need to be said and done if we were to 'maintain peace' in the long term! Gosh, I definitely have learned lessons from my first failed marriage, though STBXH left me for OW, we weren't exactly couple of the year and a lot of it was down to a lack of communication and our expectations of our relationship/marriage. It's very easy when you first fall in love to assume that just having love is enough to conquer all and sadly, as we have seen many a times in MN and real-life, it doesn't.

I'm so sorry to hear about the situation you are in though, do you think it will get better or do you think you will just accept the way things are?

Banana For what it's worth, I don't think it sounds like he is having an affair with his ex. I think shey02 has got it bang on, your DH is lazy and happy to just let things continue the way they are. Maybe the reality of involving different parts of his life scares the hell out of him? It's not easy doing so. It wasn't easy meeting my boyfriend's ex and it wasn't easy meeting my XH's girlfriend but it all had to be done and in a civil manner. I sometimes feel like I'm in an alternate reality . I can see why for some men, it would just be easier to leave the ex-wives and current partner deal with their 'separate' bits of their life, it is up to you though to decide if you are happy to continue in this way or not... And what you need to do about it...

I'm not sure it will get better unless dp reads a step parenting book or has some kind of epiphany! If I accept things as they are, then I guess I am accepting that we will never live together, never get married, never fully integrate. God knows I have tried, but he holds all the cards. I have detached already, but perhaps that needs further depth, to accept separate lives too...? I suppose there will be advantages to that too, but I just cannot fathom them yet. :(

It's not him being a divorcee it is him not being open with you.

I think you've maybe moved in together too soon. Being included in his life more should have happened before moving in together.

He is also showing you he'd rather lie to protect his closedness than open up to you.

I agree you are more invested in and giving more to the relationship than him.

Three weeks have gone by and... I am still so angry! I tried my best to revert back to my loving-self but then this week something inside me snapped. Now I don't feel it's safe to show my feelings as openly and I can't help taking in every loving word he utters with a hint of sarcasm. I don't say anything (actually I've let a couple of comments slip) but all along, I am thinking 'yeah right'. It's even impacted on how attracted I feel to him. All I can think is how many times I've been told lies but was none the wiser only because he didn't get caught. I've asked him twice whether he had made this sort of sleeping arrangement before, since we've been together, to which he said 'no'. I don't believe him and I've told him so. Not sure my trust will recover from this one...
He's away this weekend, seeing his DC, and maybe staying at his friend's house but who knows?? He's mentioned again about when I am going to come up with him but no firm dates or plans - almost like an empty gesture? And DS asked him the other day when he's thinking of bringing his DC down to which he said 'Easter'. I was very surprised when DC told me as DP certainly hasn't raised the subject with me.
He's texted me a couple of times today, all loving words but nothing about what his plans were etc. A minute ago another text to say that he had taken the DC swimming - across the English Channel, obviously, if that has taken up a whole day?! Well, that's what I feel like replying... It's not that I have any need to know every detail of his day (I am not even sure I am interested) but it's sad how quickly sarcasm made yet another appearance!
shey02 - how have things been for you during the past couple of weeks? any progress?