This genuinely might be just me...

[melb14]

I might be losing some of my perspective here, as my judgement is starting to be a bit unreliable. There's a side to my partner of the last 4.5 years I find very hard. He has agreed to go and talk to someone about his "volatility" (he doesn't hit me - this is about his behaviour and the way he talks to me) which is really good, but I guess I'm wondering if I want him to stay anyway. This morning's little exchange ..small fry, but I don't think this is ok. Am I a bit mad? Both sitting at the table at laptops, listening to the news. He asks if he can turn the radio off as he wants to make a phone call. I ask if he can leave it for one minute, as I'm just listening to the item. He looks ticked off, and says he'll go and get changed. He comes back, and walks over and switches the radio off. I'm anxious but say that actually I was just listening to it. (it was still the same item). He ignores me, leaves it off, picks up his phone, and says "Well, you can go and listen to the radio in another room, how about that for an idea". I get up and go into the bedroom, and do as he says. I hate myself for this. I come back, with anger and humiliation boiling away. After a few minutes of phone calls, he says that it was a "bit abrasive" and apologises. I say it was more than that, that it's not ok to speak to me like that. Argument ensues. He blames it on my wanting to listen to the radio when we wants to make a phone call and I don't ask when I switch the radio off. (not true). I say it's the same as me coming up and switching his laptop off when he's using it, because I want to do something else. He doesn't agree with this. I feel half of me is a doormat, and make it worse by doing what he says at moments like that, and half of me is furious at being treated this way. But I think I'm making it worse. I'm sorry, this stuff happens all the time. I'm losing my judgement. I'm going to go and try and talk to someone too, quietly, to see if I can get clarity. I find him utterly horrible at times like this; rude, verbally aggressive, unpleasant to be with. Time to put up and shut up, or am I allowed to dream of punching him on the nose? :) (he's very tall so Id need a chair, but I'm sure I'd find a way!) :)

Sorry, x-post with your last.

OP it is most definitely not you. It is him - he is emotionally abusive and has no respect for you.
I've seen this book by Lundy Bancroft recommended time and time again on MN for women just in your situation. Do read it - it will help you understand exactly what is going on. Best wishes.

Yy to Lundy. (no relation )
He sounds just like my ex. and that is the sad and surprising thing just how similar they all are.

I used to tie myself in knots trying to work out how to stop every incident turning into a row that was somehow my fault without just letting things go and feeling constantly disrespected and put upon.

I worked out how in the end

As well as reading Lundy, check out the EA thread in relationships. lots of eye opening links at the top.
Glad you are not going to couples counselling.

Rather than trying to work out with the counsellor why you feel so angry and disconnected, why don't you work out why you feel obliged to stay with a man that clearly makes you feel angry and disconnected? He's not going to find out why he behaves this way, I'm sorry to say. Men like him are never in the wrong. No changes required. If he bothers to go to counselling I guarantee he will return with the message that it's not him, it's you.

Emotional abuse is soul-destroying and no amount of minimising and turning incidents into jokes will counteract the effects. I know, I've tried it myself. You're self-aware enough to know that every fresh incident where you back down or back off is bringing you lower and lower. You are definitely a strong woman. You're still in there somewhere... :) Please find the strength to reject him.

I don't think you need a counsellor. You seem plenty aware of what is going on. If he wants to see one, well, he can knock himself out. I don't think it will do much good.

I think you might consider simply leave him. Just like that. He doesn't deserve an explanation. He's not your kids' father. You're not married are you? Do you have joint assets? If not, you could just leave? People like him make it an art form to foster a huge sense of obligation in their partners. You really have no obligation to him. None at all.

oh dear, so familiar for me (and many others too). The whole respect thing really riles me. it is like they honestly believe that we do things on purpose to make life extra hard for them. I have also been told off for opening curtains too early or for changing the TV - yet the same rules don't necessarily apply to them.

In the short term there are some things you can do. please accept that your family and children are noticing his behaviour and wonder why you accept or minimise it. You need to stick up for yourself and make it clear you find it unacceptable - even if family is around. In fact, even more so if family is around. You may get some support and he will feel some shame. Never make excuses for his behaviour again and don't keep things secret.

In the long term - it is good he wants counselling - it shows he recognises at least some of his faults or wants to keep you happy. but be careful. he may turn some of what he learns back on you or more importantly, it might be too late already.

Even if he changes do you think the relationship will ever heal completely? You are going to be living with a new type of relationship which will be harder - one where you don't trust your partner to be kind and caring and one where you will still feel anxious, even if he isn't behaving badly.

It sort of reminds me of when exH wanted the TV sound low because he wanted to sleep, in the bloody living room. Everyone else had to be quiet. Instead of him going to the bedroom.

I actually don't think him getting counselling is a good sign. He's alone, he can present his story anyway he likes and he is allowed to behave as he has because he is having counselling. To "find out why he behaves like this"?
He just needs to stop. End of. Or leave.

Does he treat other people like he does you? Because if he doesn't, then it's something that he can control.
If he does, then you still don't have to put up with it and if it doesn't improve to a relationship you are happy with in a reasonable amount of time, you should leave.

Op, I am quite a softy, but don't think it's you at all

OP it definitely isnt you.
I bet he suggested that you go to therapy.
My ex suggested i did. He also went himself, after i told him go to therapy or leave.
It didnt make him better, he got worse.

He would often accept his behaviour was wrong and at times accept it being controlling. Only for an hour or two later, he would twist it all to where I was controlling him and making him say these things.
At times i believed him.

Please just leave this man. You seem like such a strong person, but you coming on here shows he is grinding you down and making you question yourself.
Dont let him take anymore of yourself away!

Agreeing with posts above - especially where it has been pointed out that your awareness is correct & healthy, and your posting now may be an indication that you're near breaking point ... or that things are about to get worse ...

In the Freedom Programme, this man is called the King of the Castle. I can't link from my phone, perhaps somebody else would?

One last thought: does he use any drugs? Recreational or body-building type stuff?

I have a dear friend who suffered eleven years of emotional abuse and that is what it sounds like. Oh yes, most people have stupid arguments but what kind of relationship is it when you feel you are walking on eggshells all the time?
Yes maybe counselling will help you, my friend, a strong woman like yourself, ended up with a severe psychosomatic illness that was only cured by counselling and separation.

He's a bully. He's a petty, immature bully and he makes your life miserable. What exactly do you get out of the relationship that is good?

Some of these posts are it's not your fault at all. Asking for a 'minute' to wait for a programme to end is not to be taken literally it's a figure of speech to say it will be ovdr shortly. The fact he made a meal out of this + the fact he couldn't be bothered to get off his backside and make a call elsewhere is really bad behaviour. Your other posts clearly show he's trying to permanently show his superiority and put you down. Why are you still with him?

Honestly OP I wouldn't waste your money on counselling, just get rid of him. As everyone has said the problem is not with you, it's him.

This behaviour is far too ingrained in his character for him to 'change' even if he were interested in trying to, which he's clearly not.

Hello everyone, and thank you wheelbarrow loads for all this incredibly useful input. It feels like someone is writing down stuff from my own head - amazing it makes sense to you all. Thank you. I have read all the posts really carefully, and lots of times; I've ordered the book; I've bought another one while I'm waiting for that one to arrive, and I feel like I have a clearer mind now. It really helped to know that it's ok to feel as if I'm not sure if I want the relationship even if he DOES go to counselling (which he is doing); and I;m feeling bad because I'm keeping my emotional distance right now, as I have no desire to be close to him, even though he is making an effort. I do feel bad about that, and I need to make sure I do at least give the counselling some chance to do something. Still got lots of contradictory thoughts swilling round my head, but it's really really helpful to be getting this amount of support - wow. Thank you. I am strong, and am determined to stay strong; I'm starting to realise it's not me he's angry with, but I'm the nearest thing (we'hev had lots of "discussions" where we in effect argue about the fact that i say you should treat those close to you the best, and he feels like you (ie he) should be able to treat those closest to you worst, because they're close to you. Some reading around this has helped - it's very usual for someone to effectively take out displaced stored up anger on those closest to them, as they think they're safe in doing so as they will tolerate it - it's called "kicking the cat" in psychotherapy speak apparently. Yup, that's about what it feels like! So it's not me, I don't think. It's his stuff. I just have to decide whether I want to put up with it. I'm thinking not. So it's facing it out and challenging it; or telling him to hoof it. Thank you, all. Lots of thinking to be done. And maybe doing a course in off grid electronics!!

I would hazard a guess he's made the electronics more complicated than they need to, or should, be. I've no idea why you have to be off-grid, of course, or how you generate your power, but people have lived out in the wilds with well-functioning electrics for a century or more (and millions are now living half-off).

You sound in good emotional shape :) I'm so glad your thread's helping. Good luck with your electrical education!

He sounds very controlling. I've done some reading about this as i was in a controlling relationship and although the relationship only lasted a year it certainly derailed my mental wellbeing.

Controlling people can be very charming on the surfacr but behind that tend to be incredibly manipulative and nasty. They'll slowly wear down your self esteem without you realising it. They make you doubt yourself and you end up believing all the negative things they say about you.

Be very wary of him. As soon as he knows your on to him he'll double his efforts to be nice, and once he has won you over will go back to his campaign of belittling you and minimising / dissmissing your feelings and opinions.

He will never change.

Unfortunately there is only one way to resolve this and that is to sperate yourself from him - this is never easy in the best of circumstances!

It sounds like you have a lot of thinking to do. But please remember he will never change, he will allways blame you. Please take care of yourself and your heart.

I wouldn't bother with the reading, what's the point? To convince yourself that you can fix him? Forget it, drop him before you waste another year, two, ten...

"he feels like you (ie he) should be able to treat those closest to you worst, because they're close to you."

Embroider that on a sampler and it could be the Abuser's Motto couldn't it? ....

fbr if the book in question is Lundy far from it, it will there is a vanishingly small chance he can fix himself assuming of course that he even wanted to and even then that is no reason for the survivor to stay.

It may all seem like a long winded process but the reading really can help to see through the FOG. and also to convince oneself that you have done everything you reasonably could or should and it really is ok to call it a day. that in fact there is no other sensible course of action.

Leaving an abuser is a process.

Good luck OP. i hope the reading convinces you that none of this is your fault and none of it is your responsibility to fix. you cannot change him. only he can change himself and he probably thinks he is just fine as he is.

It's not you. The normal thing to do if someone is listening to something and enjoying it is to wait till they've finished - and I don't mean wait in a resentful silence, but happily and willingly. My partner would do this, any decent person would. What's the point of having a partner if they don't enrich your life, make things easier, take pleasure in your pleasures?

My mother (herself in a difficult relationship) used to call total crap on that saying 'You always hurt the one you love', which he's trying on you. As she always said, No you don't. You make the life of the one you love as good as you can make it - because you love them.

He sounds the absolute opposite of an asset to your life, he's making you nervous and edgy and unhappy. It doesn't make easy reading to hear about you so worried and anxious and yes, scared of his reactions. I want to wrap you up and protect you! I know it won't be easy but please, please get rid of this nasty man. He is a million miles away from deserving your company and your loyalty.

How is he with your DC, OP?

It's never his fault - it's always because I have caused him to respond this way, and I never take on the same criticism, he says.

this in itself is a giant red flag.

I'd say firstly that if he is genuinely (genuinely ind you) trying to change through counsellig then that is a start for him.

However, you are walking on eggshells and you are keeping an emotional distance because you don't want to get close again. Don't feel bad about that btw, you're entitled to not want to be hurt. Self preservation is a good instinct, as long as it's not at the unnecessary expense of others. This isn't. This is necessary self-preservation

But digression aside, you're walking on eggshells and keeping distance. That indicates that it is probably too late for your mutual relationship, and he is better off trying to build something with someone else, becuase he's already broken this relationship too far. It may be that you have some things to work out and will benefit from counselling, or it may be that actually you're pretty fine as you are. But in this case, if you are always the one at fault and with the other things you've said, I dont think you and he can be good together.

Also, its a really bad model for relationships for your children, to see you treated this way. I bet they've noticed you've lost confidence and are walking on eggshells.

Hi everyone. I'm sorry I didn't respond. Thank you for these last messages - they're really, really helpful. Intelligent and compassionate insight to a tricky situation. I have now been to counselling three times, and so has he (two separate counsellors!). I'm reading and have nearly finished (interesting to read a book in secret in a shared house! Have a secret space in the bathroom - I read a bit more every time I nip to the loo!) Lundy's book, which is really helpful, and easy to read (like having a secret mate who lives in the loo!); and also another great book by Sue Parker Hall on anger and rage, which is making a lot of sense. She says anger (respectful and proportionate) is a reasonable response to a genuinely threatening situation. If it's not allowed to express itself at the time, it gets bottled up, corrupted, and becomes a more dysfunctional rage (a completely different thing) and that can last for years. This is then vented (years later) by "kicking the cat" (taking it out on the person closest to you, as you're relying on them not to leave, so feel you can treat them like shit) and all sorts of other messed up behaviours. This could explain a chunk of abusive behaviour. Doesn't make it ok. :) But it helps to see where it's coming from, and also helps you be clear about the fact that it's NOT your fault. And to recognise the patterns and tactics (deflection, kicking the "cat", etc).

Bottom line is I think he's trying. We've talked about his behaviour now, he is recognising that he is abusive ( a big step) and is also understanding his difficulty in sharing his stuff, and the importance he places on things, rather than people. But I remain very wary, and keeping my emotional distance, as I have two lots of voices in my head - the one that is about the connection with him, and the fact that I need to let him try, and to trust that process to be fair; and the other of a million women in books and on here saying that's exactly what he wants and don't fall into the trap. And so I end up distant, and I think that's making him impatient and pissed off bcos he wants to feel Im acknowledgeing his work with the counsellor. Eesh. I think I will see out my decision to see if this process helps him and us. Ill take an honest look at me in my sessions with a counsellor and make sure I;m being completely fair. And wait to see if there is an improvement. And I'll try to be less distant. And (as of today) I'm going to use Clare's Law to find out a bit more of his past. I dont think I'll find anything, but the fact that I'm even willing to try it should tell me there's something I need to heed, in my heart.

Onward and upward, all! Thank you. x