I've finally realised how manipulative my mother is.

[ConfusedPixie]

My Mum has always been a compulsive liar, in the sense that she'll actually convince herself that what she is saying is true, and it's little things, stupid things, always stupid things. My sisters do the same and up until my 20's I did the same too. My Dad is always right too, and will have a huge sulk if he's not.

However recently I've realised just how manipulative my Mum is is with information I've given her. I told her the preferred date of my wedding, 8th of May 2015, a Friday. She asked, so I told her, though I didn't tell her that this was because it was a special date for me and DP. This was at the end of last year.

In a conversation last week we were talking about hotels near me as she is coming to visit next month. She then tells me about a lovely flat she's found near me for the wedding weekend, and then tells me that my Nan and Grandad and their youngest daughter are planning to travel up in the morning and will stay over the Saturday night. I ask why the Saturday as we're getting married on the Friday. Bearing in mind that we haven't actually started really planning this yet and the date isn't set in stone so my Mum is one of the few who knows the date family-wise. When I told her, the response was:
"No no, you told me the 9th, so that is what I told them."
I told her that no, I wouldn't have told her the 9th. she then tells me that yes, I did, I definitely told her the 9th. She's really convincing about it and won't admit that she's made a mistake. I then tell her that it'd be the anniversary of DP and I getting together so I categorically would not have told her that it was the 9th. She then starts being all disbelieving and doing the whole "Oh yes, of course you are right...." type chat.

It really bugged me, I can't stop thinking about it. I think it's because, for once in my life, I am 100% certain that I am right in what I told her, and I can think of so many occasions where I've been so sure that I've said something to her and she's twisted it so that I feel like I actually had made a mistake.

I know that she is a compulsive liar, and I take a lot of what she says with a pinch of salt, but I never realised that she also was sop much like my Dad, in that he can never be wrong.

I'm just posting becaus eI needed to write it down as it's bugging me so much.

Well done, I would say. That kind of realisation is the first step towards eventually detaching yourself from dysfunctional behaviour.

You can't change her, but you'll be better equipped now to notice when she's off in one of her self-delusions, and entrenched in her position of I-am-always-right. The best thing you can do is to vow not to let it bother you, and move swiftly on, unruffled, rather then have her try to admit she is wrong (she won't).

OK being charitable, could it be that your mother has selective memory, knew it was the second weekend in May and assumed it was the Saturday. Did she make any comment about it being a Friday when you told her? She might not have absorbed that bit.

It could be that she has a terrible memory and won't admit it?

It sounds like a misunderstanding although I do get that it is probably another in a long line of 'misunderstandings', lies and manipulations so I totally get your annoyance too. I have a parent who is also never wrong, who sulked and twisted things although a lot of the time, I just don't think he knew what he was talking about and he had to cover up his ignorance stupidity by trying to make you believe he was right and he hadn't just said black was white. Bear in mind your mother is now going to look foolish and out of touch with her DD because she gave your grandparents duff information. That has got to hurt her pride!

She probably reacted like that because she couldn't actually handle being wrong. My mother is similar. And when it finally gets through that she might have been wrong, it's so hard for her to deal with, she turns it into an attack on you.
Good that you have noticed and maybe can start to observe her behaviour in a more detached way rather than reacting to it in an emotional way that is damaging to you.

Big I definitely remember telling her that it was Friday the 8th, as I raised the issue of people having to miss work/school in order to come.

I suppose it is about having realise dI'm now better prepared for it, it just really bugged me as it made me realise that actually, I have probably been right on many occasion before and been convinced that I was actually wrong.

I feel like everything with my family is one step forward, two steps back at the moment. I had a really rough few years with one sister being an absolute cunt tbh, then she chilled out once she got rid of the cunt she was with and started dating somebody lovely but my other sister has just stopped interacting with me. Not in a cutting-comm type way, just the better offer (my other sister) has moved closer to her and so she doesn't need to chat to me any more.

Well done.

Knowledge is power.

Don't let it upset you. She is what she is and you can smile to yourself and think - 'I've got your number.'

Does she use a mobile/text you? From now on, that is your stretegy. Any signficant information - 'Oohh, I tell you what, I'll just text that to you as well Mum, just so we both have a note of it. There you go! - TEXT- before she can say boo.

If she's being a manipulative nasty oddbod, that fettles her.

Similarly if she's genuinely absent-minded, but any mistake is YOUR fault. Bingo!

Definitely take a step back by the sound of it. The text strategy should help you with 'misremembered' stuff, but the overall picture you paint of frankly dysfunctional relations- well, all I can say is that I've taken some huge steps away over the last few years with the logic that if they seem so unhappy with the modes of our communication... well me stepping back has probably made them happier too. Right? :)

You know, I read this and thought your mum is behaving like my XP used to and still does. I could even trot out a recent example for you! However it's your mum and I appreciate that the dynamics will be different.

The key to dealing with this kind of behaviour is keep everything in writing. text and email are a godsend.

Best of luck :)

I'm going to start doing that, texts all the way to confirm things. I have gone back through our fb chats and found some things too

Well, coming at this naive about such behaviour, what's the benefit to her of saying it's the Saturday? Surely none.

So she's made a mistake - you may have talked about people taking time off work but no-one remembers all elements of a conversation equally and most people combine elements of hearing with elements of assumption and their internal thoughts at the time you're speaking, to create memories. That's normal, though some people have poorer concentration and listening skills than others.

Also, look up confabulation. I've come across a few people who do this to an amazing extent, including while appearing competent at work. They embellish, re-contextualize and re-memorise a story so many times they have no idea what the original truth was.

Sound like she's a poor listener who won't admit she's wrong, rather than manipulative - to be manipulative there'd have to be an advantage to her of it being on the Saturday and a chance of persuading you to change it, or, she'd have to think she'd gain bargaining power over something else by wrong-footing you.

The confabulation thing is really interesting. Just read about it on wiki.

DM and MIL does it. I never recall my father doing it, neither does FIL.

I wonder if it's more prevalent in females as they age then?

MIL tells me stories about DH with him sat right next to me pulling a WTF?? face on. 'Tis quite funny.

DM tells me my DDs have said things to her which they deny when i've asked them about it. Daft things. But sometimes i wonder if that's quite deliberate and she's just fishing for info ....

I hadn't heard of confabulation - that's interesting.

I know with XP it was all about control. Having one over on me and keepoing me wrongfooted.He did things like this throughout our relationship and it was very damaging. Because we have to communicate about DS he will try it on every now and then but I can see it coming from a mile away and head it off at the pass, so to speak.

The thing is (and confused you will know whether it's deliberate or absent mindedness) once you realise what is going on you are better equipped to deal with it.

lottie I shall look it up, I'm about to leave for work. The thing is, it's not just a mistake. It's making the mistake and then insisting that I am wrong. Which happens a lot. The advantage to her is that she isn't wrong, which is something I never thought of about my mother but am very familiar with regarding my father.

The confabulation thing doesn't seem to fit either of my parents from your description of it though, my sisters yes, but not my parents. Neither of them really tell stories. It's always simple things, like if I said yes or no to a request, or told them a weekend that I would be coming down, or something else.

My DM does similar, I suspect it's because she doesn't actually listen in the first place. She'll then storm ahead and put wheels into motion with things and get all martyrish that she was "in the wrong and can never do anything right"...

My STBXH is like this too. Once he gets an idea into his head there is no shifting it! I now confirm everything by text message. It's a pain in the arse and I resent having to do it- it feels like I'm micro managing him- and he still gets things wrong, but now he has no come-back.

Fetchez mine too.

The recent example was a pick time for DS during the Christmas holidays that that we had arranged via email. I do this with all arrangementsand pin him down to specific dates and times because I don't trust him not to mess me about if I don't.

Anyway, the email in question concluded with me saying "As agreed you can pick up DS from x place at y time on z date". He phoned me a couple of days earlier and tried to bully me into another time and date.

Because I knew I 'had it in writing' I was able to stand my ground. I refrained from sending an email saying "I TOLD YOU SO", because I'm a better person than he is .

Sorry, that's slightly unclear.

He replied to the email I sent agreeing the time and date and rang me a couple of days before he was due to collect DS to try and change it, pretending he knew nothing about the date we had agreed.

Reading back it sounds so ludicrously petty written down but the this kind of behaviour can really wear you down and leave you wondering which way is up. It's really unpleasant.

There are several ways, off the top of my head, how it would be a benefit to your mother to trying to make out that you said Saturday.

She has found this flat for your grandparents and maybe it isn't available for Friday night so she is trying to make you and the wedding fit in with her idea of how things should go. She has all the arrangements sorted in her head and you are messing them up as far as she is concerned. Of course you aren't really - you said what the date was but still. She will gloss over that.

Plus she looks stupid for getting the date wrong and if you back down and say it was a Saturday she doesn't have to look stupid.

How traditional is she - she might have decided that Friday is not a suitable day for a wedding and that weddings really should be on a Saturday. She knows she sounds silly saying that (because she is!) so she is trying to make you change the date by other means.

They are all manipulation so that you have your wedding on a Saturday instead of the Friday you suggested.

Seems to me you are stuck with Friday 8th May now even though it isn't set in stone. You can't back down on this now. She will only think she was right all along!

Bertha the OP isn't "stuck with " the date. It is the one she chose because she wants her wedding on that day! It is DM who has to decide whether she wants to stay in fantasy land and turn up a day late or get with reality and come on the right day!

The OP said it wasn't set in stone but if I were her I wouldn't want to change it as a matter of principle and I wouldn't give her mother the satisfaction so now it has to be that really. I was being a bit tongue in cheek!! The OP's mother is trying to be manipulative and she shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

Sorry, at work so on my phone replying.

It is the date we'd prefer, though we weren't sure if do would be at uni or doing a placement so we hadn't booked anything yet. Now we know that he is doing his placement year (found out yesterday!) And has a job forit, iit'll likely happen on the 8th unless he can't take time off, we won't know that until September though.

Mum probably just didn't want to be wrong. I'll call my nan at the weekend and have a chat with her so that she knows not to block out any time just yet.

Good luck Confused. I hope it all sorts itself out in the end and you get the wedding you want on the day you want without any further 'misunderstandings'.