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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How to understand whether it is him or me - confused!!!

46 replies

MrsRudolph · 15/01/2014 13:45

I will try to be concise, but I'm really not sure what bits of this might be relevant to someone who might be able to help me understand what is going on here:

I've been married to dh for 8 years. We have four children, 7,4,3 and 1. Dh works full-time, I work one day a week, and look after the children the rest of the time, he looks after the children on the day I work. He is a fantastic Dad - loving, patient, kind, understanding etc. He is great with the children - and he is a lovely husband too. When we got together I thought he was my soul-mate - we could talk about everything, understood each other, everything was good. We lived together for a year, then got married, then pretty much ever since then have been having children - we knew we wanted four, and have been so lucky that we've been able to have our wonderful family.

All good so far but. Big but: There are some issues which seem to be growing out of control. When I met dh I realised that he was very shy and awkward in social situations, and the early part of our relationship was quite fraught because he was very jealous, very suspicious etc. I reassured him constantly, and went through a lot of very big arguments, trying to get him to see that I wasn't going to go off with every man I spoke to. At the time I put this down to two different people ironing out different expectations, and once we were married we both seemed more secure and happy. I felt dh had made a lot of progress - whereas he had been quite stuck in his ways, he tried new things, and changed jobs, did things to stop him being unhappy and developed a much more positive outlook. He has had a strange upbringing with parents who were very critical and still don't really treat him like an adult. They tend to force his hand with emotional blackmail a lot of the time, and although he has become more assertive, he generally doesn't want to rock the boat. He has always had suspicions that he is somewhere on the Autistic spectrum - the social anxiety, routines, inability to read behind what someone is saying and taking things unbelievably literally.

Of late all the things that used to help our relationship along - kindness, support, consideration, lots of hugs and affection - seem to have evaporated. Now I find myself asking questions all the time because I feel he is distant and disinterested, hoping for reassurance, but getting none. The other day we had a huge argument. I was upset because he has always been so careful with money, so that we have precise budgets and I keep spreadsheets and all kinds of systems to ensure we keep on track at his behest. I was in debt when we met, and pretty hopeless with money, but I learnt from him how to be a bit more savvy, and now feel a lot of pressure to manage the household budget because we have a big family and not a huge income. We had the argument because it seemed to me he was becoming more materialistic, wanting things that he has previously shown no interest in - feeling pressure to keep up with people at work. In the past we have both agreed that we can't afford to 'fritter' money away, so it was quite a turnaround, and I explained that I found it particularly hard to take as I had painstakingly changed my approach to money in response to his behaviour... I felt threatened, and spelled out to him that I understood a person could change their view, but it felt like if you could change your outlook on something like that, perhaps you'd change your outlook on other aspects of your life too - namely your marriage. I had to spell it out, because he doesn't 'understand' if you just say it makes you feel insecure. He said, and I quote, "I'm sorry if you feel upset, but I can't help it if you feel threatened by my change in views". His tone was vile, he spat the words out at me, but he thought that constituted an apology. These kind of encounters are now commonplace. Our good friends, a couple he has known for slightly longer than me, had some bad news at the weekend. One of the couple's father died suddenly and unexpectedly. I texted the friend to say how sorry I was and asked if there was anything I could do. He said he was supporting his Mum and would be researching how to arrange a funeral. I sent him a link to an article I'd read in a newspaper recently about funerals - how to make an awful process a little less awful. He appreciated the article, thanked me for it, and I then asked if he wanted me to let our mutual friends know about his loss. He said yes, so I contacted them all to fill them in. At each point in this conversation I had to fill dh in, because I knew he'd be annoyed if he thought I was doing this 'behind his back'. Then he went up the wall because I contacted five friends, but one of them was one he particularly wanted to tell. He said he was upset because I had not understood why he wanted to tell that specific person. I didn't understand, and felt annoyed that a genuine attempt to help a friend going through an unimaginably bad time had become yet another reason to criticise and undermine me. I tried to stand up for myself, saying that he could have contacted his friend and asked how he could have helped, but it was not in his nature to do that. He felt that I should have understood that he would have wanted to tell his friend (it feels ridiculous as I write it down).

Yesterday, by the by, when he was walking the children back from school and I was at work, our 4 year old hid out of sight, and dh panicked, and couldn't find him. This hasn't happened to him before, and he rang me in panic at work. I had managers in my office and was in the middle of something, but as soon as I heard he couldn't find our son I was in panic too. The phone cut off, and I rang and rang for 15 minutes, then he rang me back and said he'd found him. By this time I was on my way home, leaving work and just running out of the building. By the time I got home I tried to piece together what had been going on without criticising dh - I know these things happen, and realise it could just have easily happened 'on my watch'. He said he had panicked, felt awful, scared etc. I said I knew how he felt - ds had run off from the school playground when I was heavily pregnant and the seconds where I couldn't see him I felt terror, so tried to reassure him that it happens, we'll talk to ds about the seriousness of it, but alls well that ends well. Dh seemed intent on going on about it though - and somehow it became my fault, I'm not sure how - I lose track of it all!

Anyway - incredibly long story. Over 7 years I increasingly find myself exhausted looking after 4 children, trying to work, and trying to understand dh. I've become increasingly isolated, and my confidence has taken a huge hit. Dh constantly says I'm not coping and need to do something about it. I went to the gp two months ago and started anti-anxiety medication which has helped considerably. I know feel sufficiently 'together' to start running, and have started swimming with friends, and feel loads better in many respects. I'm trying to listen to what people tell me - that I need some 'me' time instead of putting family first all the time, and I'm trying to calm down and not race around trying to make everything right all the time. I know dh is under pressure. He works hard, he doesn't have a social life as his friends live a distance away. I don't mean to paint him as an ogre - its just that I don't understand how to communicate with him any more. He has gone to work today fuming with me, sulking and not speaking because he is upset that I told our mutual friend some bad news to help out another friend. We will have to discuss this later so that I can understand why he is upset. At the time he said he wanted to give me examples to help me understand why he was upset. I said I was sorry that he was upset, but I genuinely hadn't understood and in no way wanted to cause him upset. I don't know what else to do. Am I being too quick to apologise and bend to his way of thinking, or am I being completely unreasonable and not unsympathetic? I always feel like I'm making a huge effort. He knows I'm going through a rough time with my mental health, yet he says it is hard on him too. I don't doubt that it is - but he can never say something positive, be cheerful, encouraging etc. He says it is not in his nature and can't give me the reinforcement I am seeking.... arghhhh sorry I've gone on for too long. I just wondered if someone out there could give any advice as to whether I am being a horrible wife without realising it, or whether I should be more assertive? Many, many, many thanks :)

OP posts:
mistlethrush · 16/01/2014 11:14

So... how do you see yourself moving on from your last statement? ('I can't really live like this'). I know its not going to be easy, but something's got to change - and I can't see it being your H.

MrsRudolph · 16/01/2014 11:33

I've just been thinking about it. It feels so big and final to think about leaving - I've told him before that things need to change, but he thinks it is because I can't cope that I'm expecting more and more of him. I suppose this must happen a lot, but I wonder if I have painted him to be the 'bad guy' too much - if he genuinely doesn't understand, is there a way I could get help with it? I don't know if that is making excuses or not, but I don't want to just 'give up'. I think about it constantly. I don't know!!

OP posts:
bumbumsmummy · 16/01/2014 11:38

Sorry you are going through this can I just ask this friend of his you weren't supposed to speak to male or female

Seems to me he's using anything he can to control you and dressing it up as reasonable and of course he's "helping you" "I'm only doing this for your own good"

Then you apologise for it no wonder you are anxious

Get a referral to a counsellor from your GP sounds like you need a neutral someone to help you establish what's you and what's him

Good Luck

MrsRudolph · 16/01/2014 11:45

The friend I wasn't supposed to speak to was male - a close friend of dh's, but I've known him 20+ years too... when my bereaved friend said let the others know, I didn't even think whether dh should or shouldn't. I told him I was going to let them know, then did it. Then he went crackers because he was hurt/upset. I've had counselling before - the counsellor was genuinely stumped because it gets so confusing. She sort of drew a blank. Believe it or not I work in Psychology - I can't understand it at all. I've suggested to dh couples therapy, I'd do anything - but he is reluctant.

OP posts:
whatdoesittake48 · 16/01/2014 11:45

Sorry I could read it all - maybe more paragraphs would help.

But if he accepts, or thinks he has autism, this is your reason for leaving. You don't have to support someone if you don't want to. You only need to decide if you can live with it. If you can't and it isn't going to change, you have no choice but to go.#

He sounds as though he has no intention of changing and blames his condition on that.

Anomaly · 16/01/2014 11:51

I feel anxious reading your posts you must feel like you can never do anything right. I dont think you can fix him. He thinks he's right and your opinion doesn't count.

I think you should get counselling from somewhere like relate but on your own. Work out your feelings get stronger and leave him.

MrsRudolph · 16/01/2014 12:38

Sorry about the garbled and long posts with no paragraphs, its symptomatic of how I'm feeling I think. I can't think straight, I'm trying to do everything fast because I've got no time to myself, the children (who are like mini versions of him) are so demanding I don't really have time to think about me, and my relationship. I'm just trying to get my head straight in whatever way I can.

Your posts are all very helpful but I still feel that I got married and vowed 'in sickness and in health' and should be more supportive and understanding or at least try to find a way to live with this. Not at all costs, but I don't think I've tried yet.

OP posts:
mrsspagbol · 16/01/2014 12:57

I have read all your posts and i am EXHAUSTED just hearing about your life.

I really am not qualified to tell you what to do but my genuine thoughts on reading all your posts was "how do you live like this?"

Trust your instincts. Mine say its not you, it is definitely him.

I wish you all the very best for the future, you sound lovely and an amazing mum Flowers

MrsRudolph · 16/01/2014 13:25

Perhaps it is just a bad combination: he is grumpy, won't try anything new, can't give praise, can't apologise etc, I need reassurance, I need to hear positives, I want to do new things... Perhaps all these things don't surface in a destructive way until you are under pressure: the children, the mortgage etc. He hasn't always been this difficult. But then I haven't always been this stressed.

OP posts:
Allergictoironing · 16/01/2014 13:28

You vowed "in sickness and in health" yes. But you aren't sure if he does have a "health" type condition that makes him this way because he refuses to be diagnosed; sounds more like a personality disorder to me and many other posters here.

And what about HIS vows? Did he vow to care for you, cherish you? What he is doing isn't caring for you and cherishing you, it is treating you like a non-person who hasn't even got the right to be happy unless it fits in exactly with his world view - HE has broken those vows.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere on the subject of being supportive and understanding - marriage is supposed to be a partnership and both parties should do the supporting and understanding thing, and all his behaviour does is undermine you and MAKE you sicker.

You talk about not at all costs, well try to add up the costs already. Your mental health is one thing, but you also say the DCs are starting to behave like him. Do you really think it is in THEIR best interests to learn that his behaviour is the normal way things should be in a marriage, one dominant partner and the other totally 100% subsumed? Either they will learn to accept that this will be their lot in life, that they have to put up with anything their partner wants, or they will become the abusive bully in turn when they get married.

jemjelly · 16/01/2014 13:30

My DH has a diagnosed OCD and sounds amazingly similar to your DH. My DH's OCD means that he is very particular in the way things are done such as the washing, cleaning, etc, he has panic attacks if things are not done a certain way and can lose his temper about silly little things, he thinks his way is automatically right and finds it very hard to see anyone elses point of view. He also finds it very hard dealing with change, likes everything to be a routine.

I think you should ask you DH to make an appointment to see his GP.

pregnantpause · 16/01/2014 13:36

IMO from what you've written it's very much him. I have little patience with self diagnosis ESP in terms of the spectrum (beyond parents recognising in DC obv) there have been many emotionally manipulative and cruel men come through these boards who use their self appointed issue as an excuse for their awful behaviors. In tour case his autistic tenancies didn't cause these misunderstanding early on in the relationship, he was understanding, you were a team, etc. how strange that his autism seems to be getting worseAngry . He may have anxiety issues himself, it sounds that way irt the holiday.

You're anxiety seems perfectly understandable to me. All of the scenarios you describe being anxious in, I would be anxious in- being anxious for being an hour late is normal, being anxious over holiday 'work', is normal- when we holidayed with DC I was in a right flap before we went, it's hard to look after children off home ground and as a parent my opinion is you often come back from a family holiday with young DC ,needing a holiday yourselfGrin of course I understand you suffer anxiety, but would you if this twunt weren't around?

from my interpretation of you're posts he is using your 'anxiety issue' to control you, to beat you with, and to ensure he gets his way. He then uses his 'autistic tendencies' to excuse himself of any wrongdoing, and paint you as the wrongdoer. Sad Angry

FlatFacedArmy · 16/01/2014 14:28

Here's something I read on New Years' Day that is sticking with me: "We judge other people by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions."

I think he's so busy seeing himself as well-meaning and always in the right, that there isn't any room left over to see that his actions are completely out of order. He's not going to change his behaviour because he thinks it's all ok. Because he means well it's completely your problem if he doesn't do something right - after all, he is doing it to help you so how can he be wrong?

What are you going to do now?

haveyourselfashandy · 16/01/2014 14:33

Your H is going to drive you to insanity.Seriously,I bet your exhausted at the end of the day.
He sounds like he is hard work and is projecting his own insecurities on you.All the time.
Stop apologizing all the time,your feelings are just as important as his and start being firm.Use the holiday,tell him there's a whole world out there and you and the kids would like to explore it.Book a cheap and cheerful holiday abroad where at least you won't have to cook!Or a eurocamp.
Don't let your family be held back by his insecurities and definitely don't let him blame you for them!

LadyInDisguise · 16/01/2014 14:43

Ok maybe out if line but you mention in your soap that your DH thinks he is prob on the spectrum for Asperger/autism.
A lot of the examples you give are reminding me about my own DH, who us also on the spectrum.
Things like thinking that showing leaflets and giving an explain action as to why doing X would be great is seen as an attack.
Wanting yo go always at the same place on hols.
Not be able to deal with an unusual situation such as loosing a child.
All the social stuff you mentioned.

Before talking about leaving him and whatever I would encourage you to read more about Asoerger and see if you can recognize your DH there.
Then try and decide what you want to do or how you can improve things.
Eg I know that with my own DH I had to spell it out that when away on hols he has to do some of the washing up, looking after the dcs (ie changing nappies, putting them in car etc). I also had to explain that it's not because I felt overwhelmed 5 years ago when we went to X place that I will feel like this now. A lot if his reluctance to do things came from his fear of seeing me being overwhelmed, which meant I was more grumpy/angry and he couldn't deal with that.

LadyInDisguise · 16/01/2014 14:50

pregnant re self diagnosis if autism. Most adults I know only have a self diagnosis for Asperger, mainly because the term didn't exist when they were young and because getting a diagnosis as an adult is near impossible. Being there and done that.

It doesn't mean that someone who claims to be in the spectrum is automatically on there. Not that even if they are, they aren't behaving like tossers.
It just mean that it is a possibility worth exploring. If I had followed MN guidance, I would have been separated from DH years ago. As it turns out, knowing about that possibility allowed me to make allowances for DH, address the behaviour that was non acceptable in a way that was understandable to him. And we are still together and DH us a lovely man(albeit sometimes difficult because of the SN but not because he is an arse).

DisgraceToTheYChromosome · 16/01/2014 14:59

Let's cut to the chase: he has reduced you to a skivvy, he tells YOU what your emotional response is or should be, he has self-diagnosed himself in order to have an excuse for behaving badly. There is an argument for relaxing tidiness, but only as quality control while the DCs are too young to manage the whole house by themselves.

And the DCs are not yet teenagers. I can predict with 80% confidence he will resort to violence when they start butting horns with him; his insecurity will demand he exerts dominance, the way he's begun to with you when you began to have non-therapeutic independence. That was illuminating; he was fine when you were "ill" because you were the passive recipient of good works.

I'd say it's 50/50 OCD or anxiety/twattishness. I've a touch of both, but DW is good enough to give me a flick round the ear when I meltdown over a cockup. Had one the other day actually, the first for ages. Got a digit wrong on a web purchase. The bollocking was prompt, to the point and forgotten about in 10 minutes.

IMO, I'd practice saying "Don't be a tit darling" in a mirror.

MrsRudolph · 16/01/2014 18:34

I don't think so. The children are extremely wilful even now, he is not a violent person.

OP posts:
itwillgetbettersoon · 16/01/2014 21:16

The problem is OP is that your resentment of him will get worse and then more and more things will irritate you about him.

Can you both go away for a couple of nights without kids and try to reconnect?

NotQuiteSoOnEdge · 16/01/2014 22:17

Hello.

I read all your posts and MY adrenaline and anxiety kick in and I feel stressed, so goodness knows how you are coping.

I left my ex a year ago, and living with him was exactly like this. It was unbearable. His endless doing of nothing whilst you run around with a thousand things that so obviously have to be done staring you in the face while he obliviously navel-gazes at his laptop. Taking 2hours to do something that is so far down the list of priorities, and inside you are screaming with frustration and exhaustion but don't say a word because you know nothing you say will work. The temper and bad atmosphere and slamming around if you insist that he helps. The despair as for the 1000th time you can't open the front door because his shoes are on the mat, and you YET AGAIN move them the 1 foot to the left into the helpfully placed shoe rack. The pants and socks left on the living room floor every night for six years despite every possible variation on 'please stop doing this' you can possibly imagine.

It's not you, it's him. He has manoeuvred you exactly where he wants you, which is you doing the boring slog of the drudgery, and him deigning to 'help' when it suits, and emotionally abusing you to mess with your head and keep you in your place when it doesn't.

He will never 'get it'. Because he doesn't want to. This suits him. Anything else would require more work on his part, so sod that. He will dress it up in a thousand different ways, but it all boils down to the same thing. He doesn't care about your feelings, beliefs, needs or wants, because they conflict with his desire for an easy life.

I would get out as fast as you can. This is no life, and a terrible template for your DC. I would put money on the fact that your 'anxiety' issues would follow him out the door. You are already doing everything anyway, it will be easier without having to struggle with him every moment.

You are tearing yourself apart trying to 'make it work'. You will destroy yourself in the process and he won't shift an inch, BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT TO. You can't fix this. I was there. I know your turmoil about 'breaking the family', and WANTING this mythical family life which would be lovely if only he would just GET what the problem is and pitch in.

He won't.

LoisPuddingLane · 17/01/2014 12:14

I have to say, autistic spectrum or not, he sounds vile. That episode with the cream...I'm afraid he would have been wearing dessert if it were me.

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