Preparing myself for dreaded "divorce talk" - help!

[pyjamasatlunch]

So... we have been living apart for two years now. I asked DH if he thought we should at least have an official legal separation or maybe even divorce as we keep tripping each other up re the organisation of our current living arangement and need something solid to live by. We have decided to meet to talk about what we both want tonight. I know it is the sensible thing to do but I am feeling terribly aprehensive and sad about it... The biggest reason is because he keeps saying that it is to talk about what "I want" and friends and family say "You need to think about what you want!" - What I want was lost a long time ago - What I need to do is organise that dd has what she needs and maybe a little of what she wants to give her a good start to life. Only by having clear written and legal papers can I make sure I am not building her house on sand. The trouble is I can't see how to put these theoretical flouncy and Tiger Mother emotionally driven thoughts into simple practical divorce settlement suggestions. Anyone got any pearls of wisdom to get me through this? TIA

I am sorry that your marriage has broken down.

Could you not pay to have an appointment at relate. A mediator would stop any difficult talk becoming a slanging match.

ReallyTired - thanks for responding so quickly. Nope - I tried suggesting that several times - he is private. He doesn't want people to know about our family business. I even booked an appointment once... turned up and he did not... . He has his life story - no-one is right and no-one is wrong there are just different perceptions. He prefers not to involve outside parties and for us to move forward in our arrangements I need to respect that.

What is good is when the marriage first broke down I was still feeling a strong desire to look after him. Now I know that he will or will not look after himself and it is not my responsibility. I can be careful to not add to his problems if and when I can BUT What I MUST do is look after dd and ensure this divorce gives her the best chances she can have in the future...

Prehaps you need to see relate yourself so that you know what you want. Then write down what you want and get a good solitior. If you mind is made up then you will miminise solititor time.

Oh - Sounds cool - I am flicking through the website as we speak (feel like an Absolutely Fabulous character).... Thanks

The best advice I was given by my solicitor was to stop apologising for existing and recognise that my needs were important too. One of the ingredients of a happy life for your DD is to see you well provided for and secure. Are your housing needs being met? Are you getting your share of the family assets including pensions and savings?
The reason my XH wanted to keep it all informal between us was so he could continue to control me and bully me into an agreement that suited him. He was infuriated when I appointed a solicitor and went through mediation. Tough. It isn't his choice.
Are you afraid of upsetting him?

Naturally, I do not want to upset him. Dd needs happy parents to develop well herself. I don't think it would be at all useful for me to be aggressive.

True - but nor will it be useful for your welfare and peace of mind to be ignored. Hope it goes well tonight.

Being assertive is not the same as being aggressive. It is stating your own view calmly and clearly. Sometimes that will lead to the other party being upset. My XH got very upset if I didnt give him exactly what he wanted. It went against the grain to stand up to him but otherwise I would have been railroaded. Getting upset is just a form of emotional blackmail.
Putting DD first is an excellent strategy and I used it every time we had a problem to resolve. I have swallowed a lot of crap and been disadvantaged financially rather than let my EA XH deliberately damage the DC. But I did it with my eyes open to what he was doing and lost the last vestige of respect I had for him in the process.
Do you have anyone you can talk things through with? Your friends will be able to give you a good reality check hearing his proposals.

Maybe try writing a list of all the items you need to discuss & turn that into an agenda for the meeting. I've intentionally used business type terms here as that should help keep things on a more business-like & less emotional basis.

It makes sure that you cover everything you need to & don't miss stuff due to being side-tracked, or at least can sum up at the end of tonight what's been sorted & what still needs discussion. Plus the act of writing it down may help you clarify in your own mind what you are after, and help you define to yourself what are items that are important for DD and which are important to you. It ma also help you be firmer without being aggressive if you mentally list areas that are completely non-negotiable and those where you may be able to compromise - but don't let your H know what these are!

Bear in mind that if he broke promises, or was unreliable or controlling during your marriage, then you cannot trust any kind of informal agreement - he will not have changed. You have to decide what is right for you and your DD and having an outsider (ie a solicitor) advise you of your rights and help you lay down what your needs are is far better IMO than relying on someone who has a vested interest to be fair to you.

If he is a decent fair person who cares about his DD's welfare, he will not be upset. If he is a controlling bastard (I'm not saying he is!) then he may be upset.
You can get a free initial consultation at many solicitors, and you can also get free advice from acommunity solicitor (citizens advice will put you in touch - you'll have to sit and wait a bit but they will advise you how to go about things)

As KouignAmann says, some men want to prevent you having legal advice so they can control you and prevent you getting a fair deal.

You don't need to be aggressive, but certainly firm.

Identify what you and your DD need and put it on paper. Arrange for a solicitor if you think it will lead to aggressive arguments. A solicitor will also tell you what is and isn't reasonable, according to their experience.

You will need to divide up assets in a fair way, to arrange maintenance for your DD (or yourself too), if not 50-50, and to establish contact routines.

I just got in from work.... Oh GOOOOODNESS!!!! So much support - thank you, thank you thank you!!!!.... we are meeting when he finishes work - he is going to text me.... I will read through and comment on ideas, answer questions and add any info. GOD I love MN!!!!! Seriously - I am feeling abnormally sane!

Good luck with everything. I would second legal advice. Might help everything be kept 'formal' and help keep you clear-headed.

good luck, focus on what works for you at this point. I'm sorry your relationship is over but you won't benefit from trying to second guess his needs. If he has half as much respect for you as you seem to have for him things will work out well.

OK - conversation over and I survived! .... now need to work out what to do next.... but I think I will be just fine!

Good to hear.

Thanks ajandjjmum... He actually had some good ideas eg. choosing lawyers from outside the big smoke to save money, he was very honest about what he can and cannot afford and conditions under which he felt he should be granted access to dd.... it was an informative chat actually.

The only "grrrr" bit is he kept asking me what I would do if I had never have had dd. What would be my next step after living with him? I thought pushing on this question was stupid as I have dd. I don't know what I would have become or what my perception of life as a woman in my thirties without a child would have been without her and it doesn't matter as she is here and I am her Mum! IYSWIM?

was he trying to blame DD for the break up?

No.... he has an unrealistic belief that I should be constantly lapping up life and having a ball in order for dd to be happy too. He feels guilty about the fact I am so poor and sees it as a huge problem. I think we are rich in life. We have dear friends, live in a lovely city, have dear family who we visit in the countryside and have a lot of fun together etc etc but he can only see the grey sides and seems to think we should change our lives again. I have worked so hard to get life stable for dd. I don't think having another big change right now is very intelligent but he thinks it is worth it for our happiness..... grrrrrr!!!!! He is so sure of this that he wants to offer more money on the condition I move house... and less if I stay as he believes it is no good good for dd to stay here.

Twat. He should be offering the money to her regardless Moneywise, check what's fair and stick to it.

LOL thanks for the "twat". I said "Are you using money to try to manipulate me?" He said "No! I am just trying to make your lives better." It was after that chat that I decided it is best to go to a lawyer and I have found a not too dear one....

Excellent news. :)