Is it time for a new paradigm for committed relationships?

[stillgoingon]

I've started this thread as reading this board has me wondering. Are we asking too much of ourselves and human nature to commit to lifelong monogamy with our chosen life partner?

It seems to me that infidelity is so common, it's almost ubiquitous. It causes so much hurt and disappointment. Not to mention disruption for children. Is there a case for backing a more "open" norm for marriages. One where the wondering eye, the 7 year itch etc are seen as the norm and dealt with in a way that does not necessarily harm the primary relationship? Where dalliances are a bit more above board and tolerated... even expected... from both partners?

I'm interested to hear people's opinions. Do those engaged in open relationships find it works, or is one party always the loser? Do those in committed relationships who are bored and needing a bit of excitement with a stranger think they could ever achieve this with their husband/wife having full knowledge and come out the other side with their marriage unscathed?

I am simply an interested longtime lurker. Chucking this out there to see what people think really.

Thank you for all your responses. Very interesting to see the spectrum of opinion.

I am not a journalist or writing an article, purely pondering the issue!

Freyalright - I think you have hit the nail on the head for me. Something like you are suggesting seems to be a more realistic approach. Also PIL - that whatever works for you is right and there are many different types of "normal".

I guess I'm aware that a lot of people enter into monogamous marriage because it's what society considers the right thing to do. I'm not sure if we really consider the implications of that choice 10 or 20 years down the line. I guess ideally I'd like mainstream society to be more accepting. It is pertinent with the Hollande story and very illustrative - his wife has gone into hospital from emotional torment fgs! I suppose I'm saying that when we promise to "forsake all others" do most of us really realise what we are promising. And by breaking that vow, we become a nation of people who can't keep their promises. When maybe it's the vow that's actually misplaced.

"I haven't ever wanted to cheat. (Only time I have done so was in a previous relationship in an act of desperation of which I am not proud.)

I just can't help noticing how many people primarily men cheat at least emotionally if not physically"

So you were cheating neither emotionally nor physically, as opposed to those bastard menz

Fwiw OP, IMO the issue is not so much that we need a new paradigm, but we just admit to the one we actually do have, which is that a large number of people (not just men) will indulge at some time.

But, if you spend much time on MN you'd think that all OW were painted Jezebels, all MM were unmitigated bastards and all Deserted Wives were latter day saints. This is about as realistic as Alice's Wonderland, and that is why there is the problem - many people don't want to/cannot see reality (cf poster I quoted), in fact kick out with vitriol when it's shown to them.

Lazyjaney of course I was cheating, I put my hand up and like I said, am not proud: it haunted me for years.

But that's the one and only time I have done this in 25 odd years of being sexually active.

I stand by what I say though: just based on anecdotal evidence, I think men are more likely to do this and think they can get away with it than women.

That doesn't mean there aren't a lot of men out there who are faithful and it certainly doesn't excuse it. But for a sizeable section of the male population I think fidelity is difficult.

You are allowed to be a journalist, you know. I am one myself. It's not - contrary to many assumptions on MN - the equivalent of an axe-murderer.

Still goingon - Velerie Trierweiler isn't Hollande's wife. He has never forsaken all others.

I think a large proportion of infidelity comes about not as a result of dissatisfaction with monogamy per se, but dissatisfaction with the daily grind that is family life for many people. The slog of raising small DC; the groundhog day repetitiveness of maintaining a family and a home; the lack of focus on and attention given to the couple relationship as a result; lack of intimacy; the tendency to take for granted those closest to us so that compliments and tenderness between partners may be scarce. I think many people cheat because they're frustrated, feel under-appreciated and under-desired and want an ego boost - hence the prevalence of online and emotional affairs. People seek out a fantasy world where it's just them and a lover wrapped up in each other without the pressures and difficulties and monotony of reality.

I've never been unfaithful in a relationship but I know that the times when my mind has wandered to the idea most have been when with I've felt disconnected from my partner and been struggling with my own esteem as a result.

No, he chucked his wife for her.

Motherinferior - Hollande has never been married. He lived as man and wife with Segolene Royal for 20 years and they had 4 children together.

You're right and I am absolutely wrong. I remember admiring the fact they'd never got hitched!

I have to say the idea of giving attention to my Couple Relationship makes my own blood run slightly cold. I've got far too much to do to be arsed with compliments and tenderness.

"That doesn't mean there aren't a lot of men out there who are faithful and it certainly doesn't excuse it. But for a sizeable section of the male population I think fidelity is difficult"

This is what I mean when I say people on here just cannot grasp reality.
You cheated, yet you think men are the problem, and you are somehow different as you are "not proud" of it?

And does it not occur to you that for every cheater there is a cheatee, as it were?

If you substitute "people" in the phrase of yours I quoted, rather than men or male, then you have described reality.

I stand by what I say though: just based on anecdotal evidence, I think men are more likely to do this and think they can get away with it than women.

Or could it be that men are more likely to have the time, energy and opportunity to conduct affairs than women; unfortunately it's still women who tend to shoulder the greater burden of childcare and domestic work and women who are more likely to be the SAHP, and it's difficult to conduct a bit on the side with a couple of toddlers in tow! Whilst men can conceal visit to an OW with 'working late' or 'going to the gym'.

Another one who doesn't think that much of a big ask and even if it is then the likely fallout of the alternative is much more of a big ask. I don't think its feasible for people to compartmentalise, predict and rationalise their emotions in this way. And I'm pretty sure women would find themselves much much worse off emotionally. I think its a bit of a cop out as suggestion tbh.

I'd also question the ubiquitousness of infidelity, outside the world of the newspapers. Obviously if you look at forums such as the relationships board here you might be led to think so, but that's like looking at the pregnancy board and assuming the majority of women are pregnant.

I have to say the idea of giving attention to my Couple Relationship makes my own blood run slightly cold. I've got far too much to do to be arsed with compliments and tenderness.

In the most basic terms, all relationships - friendships, colleague relationships, working relationships - require some form of consistent 'nurture' and appreciation for the other partner/s. Else people begin to feel put out, taken for granted and eventually the relationship falters and risks failing. The same is true for sexual and romantic relationships: if you just become two people bobbling along with not a lot between you but some DC and a joint mortgage then it's going to cause discontent. I think taking the time to remember why you've chosen to be in a couple relationship with somebody and actively seeking to demonstrate your love and commitment is a good first run on the ladder to a happy relationship.

Agree with Comtesse re nurturing relationships, and I look at many postings on MN and think "there will be trouble ahead...."

Mother inferior - your DP must feel starved of affection. You refuse his constant offers of marriage, you are too busy to be tender. It sounds as though you're not that committed to him.

Surely there is no need for a paradigm for committed relationships, as the relationship boundaries should be set by those who are in that relationship.

It is not a problem if people want to commit to different relationships through out there lives. Problems arise when those who believe themselves to be in a committed relationship with another person discover that said other person has an entirely different view.

Infidelity is a problem surely irrespective of whether you're married or not in a committed relationship because of the problem with deceit and hurt. By committing to a relationship, you are surely also committing to openness and honesty with your chosen partner, including identifying when you don't wish to be part of that relationship anymore before choosing to be with someone else; and committing to bring up problems when they occur rather than becoming emotionally involved with someone else because there are unaddressed problems in the relationship.

Monogamy is natural for me. But I acknowledge that I am very very lucky to have met the right man. With anyone else, it may not be so easy.

I think if you are right for each other, a long term monogamous relationship is a wonderful and life affirming way to live - but of course, not the only way.

Even if we are in the minority, it works for me & DH. We do both have very rich and varied lives, together and separately. I notice many people of my age (late 40s) don't seem to have hobbies beyond home & shopping and that may be when the boredom sets in.

We don't give attention to our Couple Relationship as we are too busy living - we are more likely to be up a mountain in thick fog working together on how to navigate down than bothering with a 'date night', yuk.

I can assure you that should my partner sort out an evening out, complete with sorting out the childcare, I'd be fully prepared to consider it. Given that at the moment he's away on holiday for a week while I do the childcare and domestic stuff, no, tenderness is not top of my agenda.

Sorry but the OP's opinion that infidelity is commonplace sounds like they are looking for permission to me. If you can't or won't be faithful that's fine, but don't kid yourself that everyone else is the same. I've been faithful to the same person for 22 years now with no plans to change, some of us just enjoy monotony monogamy.

I can see that the traditional marriage is not for everyone though, and can see the potential for shorter term contracts - eg, a 20 year contract while raising a family, or two year contract for a faithful live-in relationship when not quite ready to settle down. Contracts like these would enable people to protect their living arrangements and have plans in place for what would happen in the event of a pregnancy. I think it would be awesome if you could then sue someone for giving you an STD on the basis that they broke their contract. Can't imagine many people would bother with this though, most of us just drift into relationships dreaming of endless lurve don't we?

That's is a personal opinion, based on some research and my own observation, not one based on any established fact.

Humans are social species, so it's impossible IMO to separate what we have evolved to do in terms of instinctive behaviour and what we have been socialised into accepting as the norm. Evidence from history and prehistory suggests pair-bonding to be linked primarily to the raising of children with other, larger social bonds being more important overall. Our modern society places much higher demands on the typical nuclear family. I think that level of pressure leads to discontent and a great likelihood of cheating. IME people with well rounded lives and lots of family/friend relationships don't look to their partner to meet all their needs and are therefore more capable of weathering times of stress on the relationship.

That doesn't necessarily mean they have been faithful, of course. I think that comes down to whether or not you're the sort of person who connects emotion with sex. IMO it is a fallacy to divide people by gender for this one. Experience has taught me otherwise, and the only time I tend to see the trite excuse that men just see sex as a physical thing and therefore it means nothing is when a man has been caught cheating. It's a self-selecting group. The fact that men are less likely to accept cheating than women (as evidenced by divorce stats based on infidelity) shows immediately that they feel the emotional betrayal just as keenly and therefore DO equate sex and emotions in many instances.

To my mind, I think it's an irrelevance. Monogamy and integrity don't have to go together, just as 'loose morals' and promiscuity don't. Lying is what denotes a lack of integrity, not the number of sexual partners. What's needed is for people to ask themselves what sort of relationship they want and air it before they enter a committed relationship and before they are tempted by someone else and then decide to announce they want an open relationship.

Another observation I have made is that those in successful open relationships are those where both partners knew that's what they wanted before the relationship and discussed it straight away before any third parties were involved. Anything else seems to be characterised by one partner wanting it and the other being 'persuaded' (usually when meeting someone else they want to have sex with), which is a recipe for resentment and an inequal power balance.

We don't give attention to our Couple Relationship as we are too busy living - we are more likely to be up a mountain in thick fog working together on how to navigate down than bothering with a 'date night', yuk.

Dunno whether you're referring to a metaphorical mountain or whether you share hill-walking as a joint hobby! You don't have to be comparing your spouse/partner to a summer's day all the time and gazing into each others eyes across the table in a fancy bistro to be nurturing your relationship and demonstrating how much you value your partner. If both partners of a couple are on the same page, working together, supporting each other, letting the other know they have their back, acknowledging the love and commitment that's between you with both actions and words - which is what it sounds like you're describing with your up a mountain in thick fog scenario - then that's the basis of a sound relationship. Indeed, complement can work the same wonders as compliments.

I suppose I'm just not entirely convinced that it's monogamy itself which results in infidelity. I'm not sure that affairs are totally about lust and sex and being so bored with monogamy that you just absolutely need to have sex with somebody else. That may true in some cases but I think that in others (perhaps even most), people who are feeling frustrated, neglected, undesired and sidelined in their relationships inevitably feel flattered by attention, compliments and flirting from somebody else and enjoy the excitement, the novelty, the ego boost and the nice feelings of being desired, thought about and listened to. As several people have identified, having rich and fulfilling lives together and separately so that boredom and carelessness doesn't set in seems to go hand-in-hand with happy long-term monogamy.

Mother inferior - you can be tender without going out and getting a babysitter.

Separate holidays is OK if it's acceptable to both of you, and you both get your turn to do your thing. But you sound a bit fed up about it. Are you OK?

dahlen that is an amazing post

It's interesting the comments about having children with friends.

Hubby and I were best friends for years before we hooked up.

One common note that runs through many of the relationship threads is that problems come, and multiply when people forget the basis premise I believe that marriage is about.

I didn't marry my husband only to make me happy, when I married him it was with the intention of making HIM happy.

So many couples get so wrapped up in who's right, rather than taking a step back and thinking, 'shit, my beloved is hurting and I want to stop the hurt'.

I hate seeing my husband upset. If I've hurt him it won't have been intentional and when he hurts, it hurts me. He knows I'd never want to hurt him drliberately and that my intentions are good but that sometimes I make mistakes or just don't think. I can confidently say the same of him. So things don't fester, they don't build. We don't try to feel hurt so if we are it needs addressing and not festering over.

If the communication goes in a marriage then you're screwed unless you can get it back again. It's sad that so many marriages are going through bad patches and neither partner can be sure the other wants to make it work more than they want to be right.