DH - advice please

[ineedgin]

Regular but name changes for this.

Don't even know where to start :(

DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 4 and have 2 DSs under 3. I am a SAHM and he works full time bringing in a decent wage and supporting us all. Working hours are good so we can all spend time together late afternoon, eat and he baths and puts kids to bed.

He owns the house we are currently in and will very soon be moving into our new family home which will be jointly owned.

From the outside he is the perfect dad, in that he provides, good with the kids, helps out (a bit) around the house and is liked by all. But he is not the man I married, or the father I thought he would be.

I find that he gets angry quickly, short tempered and has limited patience with the boys. DS1 is quite boisterous, but a typical 2.6 year old in terms of pushing boundaries etc. DH is very quick to snap and shout at him. I know discipline is always a difficult subject, but feel as parents we should agree on what we are doing. We discuss things, implement them and then he forgets and just goes back to his usual way of doing it which I disagree with.

We use time out as punishment for DS1 when he is naughty and we have already told him off once for doing it. I get down to his level and explain why he is in time out, leave him and then re-tell him. He apologises we move on. DH just shoves him in the time out spot and tells him to get out (normally from living room into hall), sometimes as explanation sometimes not.

He also condones the use of smacking, and I don't. I think in exception, dangerous circumstances it may be necessary and if it felt right I would use it. But DH threatens a smack or does (back of legs/hand) pretty much every day. For example, at the dinner table tonight, DS1 wouldn't give him a piece of paper, he asked a few times then smacked his hand. He didn't use time out or say “give it to daddy or you will go in time out for not listening, just smacked his hand. He often says do that again and I will smack you. When I pull him up on it, he just laughs and says he doing it his way and tough if I dont agree with him.

Also, these past few months his behaviour has got worse, he's negative with and about me, wont listen, when I ask him to explain this as his arguments are sometimes quite confusing his tells me its my fault for not understanding him. I approached him the other week and said I felt like I was being verbally abused, he basically told me I was being stupid and I was the one who needed to get a grip. I sent him to info (rightly or wrongly) to read and he said he wasn't reading it as it was just someone’s opinion off the internet and he knew he was on the right :(

There are other examples, but this is rather long already and thank you if you have got this far. I don't even know why I have posted this.

Your husband is an arsehole. I am sorry.

He sounds like hard work at the very least. Some will no doubt say abusive.

If he won't listen to you and won't work with you to parent your DCs in the way you'd like, I don't know if there's much you can do tbh.

I presume the info you tried to get him to read was about smacking? If so, he probably didn't want to read it as he already knows that this isn't a good way to behave with children but he's too lazy to do things the longwinded way.

If he really won't listen then I'd be tempted to say (although you may have to be prepared to go through with this) that if he lays another finger on your child you will leave him and take your DCs with you. The only downside of this is that you then won't be with him to 'supervise' his parenting when he has access.

Sorry, not much help, just thinking aloud.

In fact, reading it back, I'm going to say abusive.

I have sent him info on being verbally abusive and said this is how I feel.

have also sent him info and talked about smacking.

And you are still with him because...

What do you get out of this relationship now?. Something has kept you within this. I would not call him good with the children either and besides which you have not stated how YOU feel about him now. What do you think about him?.

He likely won't take any notice of what you have sent him. He has not agreed with you before now and nothing really has changed.

I would be planning my exit out of this marriage; he should be nowhere near either you or your children for that matter. Womens Aid can and will help you here.

just had a huge discussion with him about it and have said categorically I do not want him to continue in this way. hes so narrow minded.

honestly most of the time he is good, and I do love him. we have some exciting times ahead and I want us to be a family. the kids dote on him.

he said if I think he ie abusing the kids to call police/social services. I think he has anger issues which need addressing and maybe some joint counselling if he wants it to work.

My two boys are young adults now but I so remember this type of scenario. I think some men(and women) really struggle with 'getting' toddlers and very young children. No longer actual babies but probably crediting them with far more 'deliberation' in their actions and behaviour than they could possibly have. This becomes incredibly frustrating to watch; a grown adult 'fighting' with a big baby.

If you can, can you get him to see that you simply have to present a united front? Imagine working for a pair of bosses with wildly different expectations...

I will fess up now that my ds1 was a difficult wee chap as a toddler and I was guilty of the odd smack (never hard). Unfortunately this became more than occasional and one day I simply had that lightbulb moment and decided on the spot that I would never smack again. The simple truth is that nobody decides to behave nicely due to the risk of being hit. I laid it on the line to DH that smacking was not negotiable.

The other problem is that again, some people seem to equate the ability to walk and talk with the ability to make complex decisions. Do you think you could get him to read Taming Toddlers or Raising Boys(?think this is the right title, anyway written by a dad).

If you can maybe demonstrate to him that there are other ways might he follow suit, even if he is doing it to make life easier. Distracting a toddler is far more likely to be effective than a stand off about some silly piece of paper (chose your battles!)

Finally, if time out isn't working, have you tried time in? It's much gentler and toddler friendly. Your HV can hopefully give you lots more advice.

I know you are asking for help with your DH rather than ds. In my case it simply got better as they got older. He's a fab dad. Maybe every bath time, supper etc is too much after work. Send him to the gym or something sometimes.

In fact for us it was adolescence when we really became the tight team I wanted. If you can just get him to see the truth of that you'll be winning. Remember: United we stand, divided we fall.

Ps on the basis of what you've said, do not ltb!

If he smacked you it would be abuse.

And you can fight back.

Anyone smacking a child is abusing them. No excuses.

thanks for your reply matilda, I don't want to leave him as most of the time its fine. I agree with what you say. he just refuses to read any literature as he already knows how to parent. I said im not saying I know all the answers but will seek advice from others and books to broaden my knowledge. I think the main issue is he expects too much from DS1 as hes the oldest but really at 2.6 still a baby.

He is resolutely resolved to abusing your children and you, what other option is there than to leave?

If you leave you can protect the children adequately as you can insist he be made to take parenting classes and have supervised contact/withdraw contact if he hits.

I never understand people, men or women, who choose their relationship over their children's wellbeing, probably because I'm the child of a family like that. Really what he's saying is "I'm going to bully you and the children because I want to. It's my way or the highway but I know you'll pick my way because you don't want to leave."

i dont think smacking is abuse, it doesnt sound like he is walloping your DS - a smack on the hand is not abuse however i do think smacking for minor things is wrong as it becomes ineffective.

his attitude/behaviour with you is shocking though - i can understand why if you sent him something off the internet he would dismiss it - there is a lot of crap on the internet. i think the most effective way to deal with it is talking to him to explain it. if he doesnt listen you need to decide what you are going to do.

A smack in certain circumstances is not illegal. More' the pity.

However, you cannot say he is not abusive to the dc because of that. I was referring to his bullying attitude and the way he smacks as much as to the actual smacking.

"I don't want to leave him as most of the time its fine"

Well you'd like to think that it is but its not though is it?.

You probably don't want to leave because of supposed shame and guilt on your part for supposedly "breaking up a family". Also you feel powerless to leave.

Your children are likely to be both scared and confused by him - and you for that matter because they are seeing you stand by and do nothing in their eyes. Your H does as he pleases and you have no say at all. Would you want your children as adults to act like your H does towards their own children?. No?. But what you are teaching them is that on some level these behaviours are acceptable to you.

I know. its so bloody hard

I just couldn't be with someone who smacked my dcs on a daily basis. Total deal breaker.

ineedgin

re your comments in quote marks that I have separated out:-

"honestly most of the time he is good, and I do love him. we have some exciting times ahead and I want us to be a family. the kids dote on him".

The only level of abuse acceptable within a relationship is NONE.
So you love him and want to be a family; that is part of the problem. Do you think he is behaving in loving ways towards you and your children?. Do you think he is behaving like a husband who gives you equal say?. Living with someone like this is akin to living with the Dominator. You have no say at all and feel very uncomfortable at how he disciplines the children.

The children I daresay do not so much dote on him (again you'd like to think that they dote on him but children love all parents no matter how violent they are) as live in fear of him. I can imagine they are far more happy when he is not around.

"he said if I think he ie abusing the kids to call police/social services. I think he has anger issues which need addressing and maybe some joint counselling if he wants it to work"

He knows you won't do that and you probably won't as well because you are frightened of Social services too.

Well why don't you talk to someone like Womens Aid instead about this?. They could well advise you.

As for him having anger issues I think you would find that he is only angry within the home. He can control himself outside the home and certainly would not act like this in front of others. You and by turn the children are his emotional punchbags.

As for joint counselling, no counsellor would ever want to see the two of you together due to his ongoing abuses. Also no counsellor would see a couple where there is or has been domestic violence. If counselling is being at all considered I would go on my own instead, he being "Mr I think I am Right All the Time so sod you woman" would never attend any sessions and infact would use same as a stick to further beat you with!.

Ineedgin,

But what is harder?. Being with him or being on your own without daily fear of his behaviours towards you and the children. They and you deserve better frankly. Honestly being a single parent is no picnic but its better for you all not to have violence in the background permeating through your life and theirs like a poison.

And it is NOT your fault he is this way. What are his parents like btw, what sort of relationship do they have with each other and their darling boy?.

You are also not powerless although you likely think that you are.

his parents are still together and are lovely. he mentioned last night they used smacking, but to what extent I do not know.

I know one things for sure I can't carry on like this.

I think one of the reasons you've stayed in this relationship is because of your own attitudes.

You say he 'provides for us all' and that he 'helps a bit' with the housework.

Do you think of you 'providing' childcare for you all? Don't you think that saying he 'helps' around the house means you consider it your responsibility?

2 kids under 3 is tough and I suspect there are millions of parents who've smacked children of this age not as a punishment but because of anger, frustration and sleep deprivation. But it always means a loss of control. Most parents feel terrible guilt afterwards and try to work on controlling their anger thereafter.

Your husband is hitting children every day and doesn't feel guilt about it at all. He is telling you what the future holds for those kids and you need to listen as you are their only hope.

He's also treating you like shit and being verbally abusive.

There's hardly any likelihood of change because although the toddler years are tiring and frustrating, every stage of childhood has its challenges and teenagerdom especially.

I also have to say if his behaviour towards you personally has deteriorated lately, it occurred to me he was playing away.

Abusive men often have affairs after all.

leaven - yes I agree. im at home with them so feel like it naturally falls to me. I know it should be a joint thing, I.e. parenting, looking after house etc just doesnt feel like it sometimes. I feel like I have to ask or stuff just doesnt get done.

I very much doubt hes playing away as no other concerns, hes never protective over phone, doesnt go out except to play footie once a week.

It is hard with 2 under 3 and I think he expects too much from them in terms of good behaviour. he expects certainly older ds to do as hes told. I tried to tell him about different development stages but he pays no interest.

I would daresay he is basically copying what his own parents did to him so they are not lovely at all either. He learnt first and foremost about relationships from his parents.

I reiterate you are not powerless here although you think that you are.

What future do you see for you and your children with this man if he belittles you daily and hits them everyday for the slightest of mistakes or transgressions?.

All Mr Ineedgin cares about is having his own needs met and being right all the bloody time. You and by turn the children are basically there to serve him and meet his every need. He does not care about any of you really.

So why do you think he has got so much worse towards you personally, so recently?

Have you seriously considered ending this relationship?

What would stop you from doing so?

In this case, it can't be the usual stuff about him being a great Dad because a violent one is patently not that. Removing your children from this anger and daily violence would be the best thing for them, obviously.