Does staying together for the children ever work?

[IcouldstillbeJoseph]

My DH and I are going through a very difficult time in our marriage at the moment. We have DS (just 3) and DD (11mo with development delays). Sleep deprivation in a major way.
I also have a few health issues at the moment.

Life is not exactly peachy.

We've not had sex in nearly 2 years. We are in seperate rooms so I can bed share as I need to with DD.

Anyway, we had a ridiculous argument over something trivial last week and I feel like it's broken me - finally. I can't be bothered anymore. We put the DC to bed and then I sit and prepare work for my return to work and DH either watches TV or does some study. I used to make conversation but since he was vile to me last week I am not interested in trying anymore.

I feel trapped. There is no way I could support the children and work on my salary. But I don't want the DC raised in an unhappy home. So I'm thinking I just smile and bob along for the sake of the DC.

I don't even know what I want to hear in the way of advice, I just needed to get that out.

I don't think 'smile and bob along' ever works, unfortunately. The resentment builds and you end up, like my parents, snarking at each other on a daily basis and making your DCs wish they'd just get a divorce and get it over with.

Have you properly spoken about life, the future and how you both feel? Would counselling be something you could explore?

I'm not one for advocating staying together for the sake of the children but it doesn't sound like you're at that stage... yet.

Before you make a final decision, I would recommend trying couples counselling or even making time each week to sit and talk once the children are in bed. Do you have a friend or family member who could babysit?

Does your husband realise how serious the situation is?

If you can't be bothered anymore then it's best to leave in my view. My parents stayed together for a couple of years for us, but it was a toxic household and doesn't show your children about what a good relationship is.

On the other hand can you talk to your other half about it, sounds like you both need to have an honest conversation, maybe get some counselling?

I don't think so, no.

But obviously that is a different question to - are things now so bad we should split up ?

Fwiw, my experience in all areas of life shows me that the only thing that is keeping people together is 'the children' then they are highly unlikely to show each other the regular compassion and kindness which is absolutely essential for a healthy relationship. Without exception, I have seen these couples sink into a toxic swamp of bitterness, recrimination and regret. And the children AlWAYS know.

You sound as if you are having a shit time and maybe need to investigate if there is anything that can be salvaged. As ever, communication is the key. And being kind to one another.

Is there any chance of the two of your having a sitter and having a date night together? I think the main issue is probably sleep related as if you are both shattered constantly it is a bit like torture. Everything else on top is just muddying the waters. You won't be able to think through what you really want/need/have/can have in the future without a clear head. Obvious, I know, but I think starting thinking about it all when you are both recharged is the best way forward.

No, once you have mentally and emotionally separated not splitting up because you have a fear of divorce is not something that benefits children.

Speaking to your husband about how serious things are seems the best idea, and then maybe Relate.

But if things have gone too far or if he won't try, well - I used to believe in staying together for the children. But this thread changed my mind. Too many people have said they are happier and their children are happier separated. Also, a lot said they wished their parents had separated because the household was far from happy

Thank you all. I haven't got anyone who can babysit really - I don't want to ask my mum as she already helps me out loads. Also, I am living a total lie to the outside world. I know this sounds pathetic but I feel too tired to think about counselling. My return to work looms and that is stressing me enough at the moment.
I just feel totally 'done'

I feel completely unattractive to DH. When we had our argument last week he just let me sit there crying while he went on about how "vile I was". How the fuck can you let your wife cry her eyes out in front of you and just keep going.
We have been pretty vile and snappy to one another before but I don't know what changed last week. Something inside me has changed.

My PIL stayed together for their 2 sons. Now they are retired and still together and quite happy although they argue occasionally.

DH however wishes they had just split up because he feels it was a big responsibility knowing they were staying unhappy because of him.
I think in the end they got in the habit of being together

I know I just need to talk to H

You can rent a babysitter. There's plenty of professionals out there with qualifications as long as your arm. You're obviously stressed about a lot of things, very tired in addition and I can understand that walking away from it all probably sounds quite appealing. But can you not at least find half an hour to have a conversation together? FWIW the separate beds thing is often a really big deal in this kind of situation as, for a lot of people with small children, the few minutes they have lying together in bed before they pass out with exhaustion might be the only 'them time' they get all day.

Also, is there any chance you may be depressed? It does sound like you have relationship problems but what's coming out of your posts is a kind of hopeless, CBA lethargy.

We are in a very similar position at the momemt. Dd1 is 4 and dd2 is 10mths (but 12 weeks prem). 2013 was awful. Lots of other bad things happened and we both feel exhausted.

We too have been sniping constantly and have also bought up separating.

But. I'm not prepared to quite give up yet. 17 years we've been together and we've managed to stay and generally have a happy marriage. I think it deserves a bit of space. I'm hoping now dd2 is slowly getting over her issues and as we come to terms with a close relatives death, we can build our relationship up again.
Do you think having young children has had it's toll? I've found this second time round so much harder.

Thanks - I've had really bad PND with my first baby and no, I'm not depressed I don't think. I'm just exhausted by no sleep and by life and by all the worry

If you do end up leaving, it is a big thing and you need to be sure you did what you could. Then hopefully you won't be tortured by regret in the future.

I left my job, my country and all my friends and family to try to make my ex happy. It was a disaster. But I am glad I did it because I know I tried but he either wasn't able or wasn't willing to try with me.

I think you need to have a plan - you will try and work on things for a fixed period of time but if there is no sign of improvement at the end of that you need to think very carefully about your life with him.

The fact that he cannot find it in his heart to be kind to you when you are obviously very upset is I am afraid a massive red flag. I could put up with lots from my ex but not his utter lack of any sympathy or concern for me. Rather he became hostile and aggressive when I was upset.

It's no way to live. It really isn't.

Although this will out me I need to share what happened last week in the argument, as I sill find it completely baffling.

As a bit of background I almost died twice in my pregnancy with DD. We are waiting to see if she has escaped with 'just' developmental delays or there is something more. DH seems to have not bonded with her much at all.BF has not helped as she has been a bottle refuser and generally very clingy towards me. He has not enjoyed being left with her. I have told him repeatedly that I find his attitude towards her upsetting (although he wouldn't ever hurt her or anything) - it is as if he has forgotten all the trying times with DS. He thinks she is a 'nightmare' and that I have 'rose-tinted specs on'. Even though I have pointed out I just love her - as it should be (I really didn't feel this way with DS as was so unwell with PND, so I am very much enjoying being smitten with her).

Anyway, New Years Eve we were just sitting down after the DC had gone to bed. We were discussing how DD's sleep had been even more rubbish than normal as she had an ear infection. I then said "I feel sure that if we wait long enough she will sleep again like she did for that week before she got a stomach bug". DH said "she has never slept". I said "yeah, she did, that week, she slept for 3 nights out of the week for 12 hours and the other 4 nights I only got up once". It was all lighthearted. And then something just seemed to turn in DH and I could sense he had suddenly become very angry. He said "she hasn't ever done that".
I was a bit stumped as to what on earth he was going on about. I said "course she has, we have had texts discussing it!" and found them on my phone. I said "are you now trying to tell me that never happened?". He then was angry and said "Yes, that's what im telling you. IT.NEVER.HAPPENED."

This started to really upset me. Not only because it was such a ridiculous thing to say but it seemed to encapsulate his general 'down-ness' on DD. I cannot understand what happened and why on earth he got so wound up over absolutely nothing.

Sorry,that was long. But that is a completely accurate account of what happened.I find it so perplexing and odd.

Anyway, I then said "oh just fuck off (I know, unhelpful, but I was upset) and then a short,spiteful slanging match ensued where he declared "I was vile and he'd had enough of me". I was sobbing. I went to bed and that was that. I couldn't bring myself to speak to him the next day.
he following day was DS's birthday so I asked him if we could be civil for that. And we were. Since then he seems to be carrying on like nothing has happened.
I am still very hurt and fed up.

he was like this before we knew anything was 'wrong' even though I knew in my heart early on
thank you I will post in there too

It's not really possible for anyone to tell whether this is some kind of delayed grieving and fear on the part of your DH (nearly losing you and DD, ongoing concerns about DD) coupled with sleep deprivation, which can be overcome, or whether it's the beginning of the end. It does really sound like you'd both benefit from counselling, as others have said. It might still be possible to retrieve things, and if not, you'll have the peace of knowing you tried, and counselling can also help you both negotiate the end of your relationship in a useful way.

What I'm seeing is a man that resents a baby. Whether that is because she has SN difficulties or because you nearly died or because she sucks up so much of your attention is unclear but he's clearly very angry and your DD seems to be the focus of this anger.

In the depths of my absolute exhaustion from a non sleeping baby and returning to work I felt very meh towards my husband (and life in general). I don't think anyone should stay together for the sake of children, but I also dont think radical decisions about a relationship should be made during a period of extreme fatigue, especially as for me, fatigue is much like depression. Can you see how things progress in the coming year. At the very least you should get more energy back, putting you in a position to decide what you want to do and to action it.

thank you all for your advice - just googling counsellors in the area

I think you're doing the right thing, as has been previously said, at least if you do end up splitting up you'll know in the years to come that you tried your best.

Up to him now isn't it?

What Cognito said. Also he sounds as if perhaps he had more time to bond with DS when you had PND but not this time round. My ex hated the fact DD was BF and clingy to me. It didn't help that he was only around sporadically and so she never fully bonded with him. I think you both need to vent and talk everything over. Being a single parent won't do much other than take him out of the equation; so may be worth thinking how you will feel on your own for the majority of the time too. I also think once you stop BFing and sleep patterns get better you may begin to enjoy your DH's company again. Good luck, whatever you decide to do.