Does anyone else have really old parents ( late 80s) who can help?

[june1957]

Try to keep this short.
My elderly parents are relatively fit and live independently. But my mum is having increasing issues with my dad's bullying for want of a better word.
He's always been the 'man of the house' and it isn't that many years ago that he relented and allowed her to have a joint bank account- based on his prejudices that 'women can't handle money'. Nothing could be further from the truth as my mum has always worked p/t and saved for everything they need for the home.

Now they are older, my dad's memory ( after a slight stroke) is not brilliant and he gets somewhat confused over things at times. My mum is a bit more on the ball and wants to take over certain things, like getting on with house repairs, buying new things they need ( new cooker etc) but my dad vetoes it unless he is in agreement - which he never is because he avoids making decisions- all too much effort for him now it seems.

Anything she wants to do has to be 'approved' by him and usually he defers the decision. So she ends up losing out and being frustrated- and behaving in a passive aggressive way- she avoids confrontation on the basis of it raising his blood pressure!

My brother and I are trying to encourage her to make decisions and just get on with whatever needs doing and she seems terrified of my dad's reactions- saying he will ' go mad'. My brother confronted her and asked if she felt our dad would hit her and she of course said no, but he'd be very angry- and she appears unable to cope with this.

I think he's become a bully but at the same time can see how he's trying to hold onto some control over his life, now he doesn't work ( he hated retiring and felt useless) but the fact is he doesn't manage the home very well, but won't allow my mum to step in and take over some stuff.

I live a long way from them so my only input it by phone.
Should I encourage my mum to call his bluff and just get on with things and stop being controlled by him or what? I feel very sorry for her.

If they've been together a long time then the chances are that his controlling behaviour has always been present in some form or other. Your Mum will have got used to deferring down the years to keep the peace (she'll be an 'eggshell treader' if you like) and this new situation is simply a continuation/exaggeration of that. It will therefore be extraordinarily difficult for her to change behaviour in isolation.

It's a pity you live so far away because I actually think the best thing to do would be to speak to your father yourself and get him to make those decisions in your presence.

Family conference? We sometimes get my elderly father-in-law to be a bit more sensible if we all gang up on him.

And/or fix it so that it's you and your siblings making decisions - e.g. organising repairs, making necessary purchases - so that your Mum doesn't get the flak.

But leave some - smaller - decisions to your father, so he can still feel there is stuff he is in charge of...

I agree with both of you on that. The problem is that my dad and I have a good relationship and he tends to try to 'pacify' me if I bring anything up- ie minimises his behaviour and suggests almost that my mum is exaggerating things. He's quite good at saying what he thinks Id like to hear- then goes back to his own ways once I'm out of sight or mind!

I've offered that we organise stuff ( to my mum and also to my dad)- he poo-poos it, saying he will do it, ( but doesn't) whereas she goes into a ' Ooooooooooh no you can't- he'll go mad!'

Whatever is going on within the power dynamics of their relationship she really ought to have full control of the finances so she can get on with things.

It may be that she has to get him used to the idea that he can let go and trust her to get on with it slowly by just getting on with one of the jobs. Then you can see his reaction.

You could encourage your Mum to keep a diary, buy her a page a day one so she can write down what is said and done 'so she can keep track of things' and make records of payments or who said what to whom.

Is your dad developing Alzheimers@ From what you've said it sounds possible - and unfortunately one of the symptoms can be aggression. Are you able to talk to the medical people treating him post=stroke?

Sounds exactly like my parents, only my mum is now very frail and my dad is as strong as an ox so can completely dominate her in every way

Sorry to go on about my situ - fundamentally different to yours, really - but they have been like this forever. It's called domestic abuse these days, but she has learnt to worship her king and there is nothing any of us can do about it. It is heartbreaking to watch.

I wonder if you can contact Age Concern to see what they have to say? Elder abuse is, unfortunately, quite common; not least elder on elder abuse.

Would he accept your brother, or a male family friend, if there is anyone suitable, acting as mouthpiece and appearing to advise your mother what to do, even if she's actually doing it? If he is still mostly lucid then he is not likely to deviate from entrenched attitudes, and allowing him to save face by it appearing that another man is taking some of the responsibility might enable things to get done, even if he knows deep down that it's not quite like that. Alternatively, if he is no longer altogether lucid, then she may be able to get things organised without him even realising, as long as she doesn't draw his attention to matters by discussing them with him. I think it's very hard for everyone to deal with when parents stop being able to cope with certain things, but sometimes the pretence that things are still the same is enough to keep things ticking along on the surface for awhile, even if there's quite a lot of help going on behind the scenes, if you see what I mean?

Thanks all. These are all good ideas but it's hard to act when I am so far away.
Alzheimers- who knows? My dad is not having any treatment post stroke except for annual check ups- it was a very mild stroke 4 years ago now and he is functioning okay- still driving short distances, and doing most things. He will not 'allow' anyone to interfere with his health ( there's a surprise!) and has a fear/ cynicism of drs. He may have slight dementia but at 88 I doubt much could or would be done- even if he permitted investigations which he wouldn't.

My mum already keeps a diary but it's more for cathartic usage- she offloads. I've never read it but my dad makes references to 'it's all in her diary'.

My brother is not terribly interested in tackling this other than to say it's a 'generation' thing- of their generation. I dispute this- and to pull my dad up if he happens to be there when any arguments are happening.

I suppose what I am trying to get over is how stubborn my dad is and how very hard it would be to do anything as a daughter, but I feel my mum needs to stand up to him because she too is stressed by his chauvenistic and bullying ways.

My experience would be that the dynamics between long married couples don't change, when they are in their eighties. People who have always been flexible, open, sensible and sharing might remain so. Those who are 'set in their ways' stay obstinate.

It also seems unfair to expect your mother to change (She 'needs to stand up to him') when it's really your father's behaviour that is problematic.

You don't sound terribly willing to stand up to him yourself, when you are younger and live at safe distance away.

Sorry if that sounds a bit challenging. I had similar worries when my father became very ill. He's no longer alive, but my mother's unwillingness to consider practical changes that would make her own life easier continues to be a source of frustration.

ime if you stand up to him when you're there, she gets it in the neck when you're gone. You can't win

You can't expect her to change now. It's too late. My dad complains about how 'difficult' she is ie she doesn't obey to the letter. She's supposed to be like children in victorian days: seen and not heard; cook the supper even though she's blind and he complains about the tiniest thing. it is unbearable.

Could your father have vascular dementia following his stroke? People with any kind of dementia find it difficult to make decisions, because conjuring up mental images of the alternatives is quite a complex thing for the brain to do. Typically the do nothing/status quo option is much easier for them.

Might the best thing be for you and your brother to buy whatever it is your mum needs (you can order almost everything over the Internet) and for you or your brother to phone up and say: "I've bought you a dishwasher, the man is coming to install it on Friday" or "I've arranged for the man to come and repair the leaky gutters on Weds 12th Jan".

He could have vascular dementia- I sent my brother a link to that info a few months ago.

I am not scared of talking to my dad BUT he never answers the phone and if I demanded to talk to him it would a) upset my mum and b) annoy him. he's also hard of hearing so lucid phone conversations are increasingly hard.
If she asked me to tackle him, I would. But when I have suggested this she says he'd feel we were all ganging up on him and become very annoyed ( and also refuse to do whatever we were suggesting, just to make a point.)

I think the answer is to encourage her to make a stand - if she was on her own she'd just go ahead and get all the repairs done, but having to wait for his permission ( and he often cocks up anyway, makes bad decisions and loses them money, ironically) is just doing her head in, as the saying goes!

Your mother should ltb.

It's reasonable for you all to gang up on your father if he's being unreasonable.

library- she would if she could I think.

I think she should look into getting power of attorney for him, or at least get him to agree to choosing who will make decisions about him if the worst should happen.

Your mum must be very fearful of change as she has been in this situation for such a long time - protecting his sensitive/stroppy nature and defending herself from his negative behaviour. Seriously, she is afraid of the person she lives with - that says it all really and something needs to change and the sooner the better.

Sometimes belligerent old men prefer trust their sons to 'manage their affairs' more than their daughters. Perhaps your brother could take on this role and then pass it on to your mother, but be very careful that he doesn't follow in his father's footsteps.