family problems, advice appreciated

[gwenabee85]

Brief(ish) background...

I'm late 20s, married, me and DH have careers we are progressing in and are not exactly well-off but comfortable enough for the two of us.

I have DS and DB a few years younger than me. DS has toddler, works PT, lives with her non-working partner and they're skint all the time. DB is the youngest, and although academically clever enough, messed about in school, failed GCSEs and has done nothing since leaving school (6 years ago).

Our parents divorced just before I did my GCSEs but I'd already come to terms with the fact they were going to separate and it never really affected me, however both parents changed a LOT after divorce, something I only really realised in the past couple of years.

DS and DB were 9 & 10 at divorce, lived with DM and visited DF at weekends for the first couple of years.
When DB got into his teens he started causing trouble at school, DF found weed in his room, got arrested for petty stuff with his friends etc, and started a cycle of moving between DF and DM every few months. In the meantime, DF got re-married and DM was having very loud, angry, on-again, off-again rship with another man who moved in and out of our house, and he seems to have been her sole priority, even over us. I went off to uni and when I was home for hols was always working, so maybe this is why none of this made sense until recently...

Anyway, about 2 years ago my DB had a breakdown, left a suicide note (but didn't actually do it..) and then was admitted for mental health problems, had social workers etc etc. This was hugely traumatic and for a while we couldn't leave him on his own, DM took a lot of time off work etc, but after a while it regressed again - he stopped going to his appointments, went back to substance abuse, sleeping all day, waking in the early hours, disappearing overnight, etc. He was living with DM at this time, but would sporadically move into his on/off GF family home, who also substance abuse etc, so no good for him to be around, and each time they got back together he'd cut all contact with us, sometimes would go two or three months with no contact at all.

Moving back and forward between DM and DF and both getting more and more annoyed with his lack of, well... anything. DF enrolled him onto various courses/volunteer things and either wouldn't start them or quit almost immediately. No chance of paid employment as no experience.

Fast forward to early 2013, announces his on/off GF is pregnant. Think this will change his attitude somehow, but it doesn't.

DF enrols him on course, tells him that this is his last chance, if he doesn't stick with it then the next time his GF kicks him out, he'll have to go to the council and get emergency housing/shelter to live at as he's had enough. Quits course, moves in with GF, GF kicks him out. DM refuses to let him move back with her as he's 'making her ill'. DS has no room/money to keep him.

Which leaves me and DH. He could sleep on our sofa, we don't have a spare bed or anything, but this has caused arguments between DH and I - why should we go out to work to pay our rent etc to keep DB, a grown man, who has had chance after chance to sort his life out? Is being cruel to be kind better? Why is it our responsibility? DM/DF should be taking some responsibility for their son. DH is usually the most easy going person in the world, we have a fantastic relationship, but he's said that if DB ends up living with us, he'll have serious problems with my DM/DF. I can't stop thinking about this, I feel like the worst person in the world, I feel responsible and guilty even though I know it isn't my place, but it's also making it difficult for me to have a relationship with my parents, as I feel it's their fault he's 'turned out like this' and they should fix it.

I don't know what to do, I feel like I want to run away from them all...

What a grim situation to find yourselves in. It doesn't sound like you want DB, and with only a sofa to sleep on, he can't stay long.

Blaming your parents may well be fair enough, but it won't change anything and will just make you crosser. They aren't going to come to the rescue again.

If it were me, I would tell DB there's no room at your house, which is true, and offer to make phone calls for him re council accommodation. He'll only get a B&B or a hostel at best.

Support your DB in finding accommodation & help rather than having him in your home. He's not your responsibility, he's made your DM ill and he will break up your marriage if you're not careful. His life is sad, you can give him help but draw the line at him being on your sofa.

BTW far too easy to blame your parents for his failings. The best parents in the world can end up with substance-abusing kids... it is not a straight/simplistic cause and effect as you'll realise one day when you have kid of your own. You and your Dsis managed to turn out OK.

I have a brother with MH problems and substance abuse too. It is hard and the guilt can eat away at you but I learnt a long time ago you have to look after yourself in family relationships like this.

I spend hours in the middle of the night talking my brother down. I send him texts and messages every day to let him know he's care for (that's a big part of his anxiety) In short, I do as much as I can without physically having him here. I have children so I need to protect them ultimately but you do need to think about your marriage. It's not selfish to refuse him your couch and it doesn't stop you helping him in other ways.

If you did give him the couch then what? How is that helping him to sort himself out?

charlie I know, I could give him the sofa for one night, for two, for a week, he'd stay and not do anything to help himself. I just text my DS and she said she had him last night and my DGm (!) is having him until Monday as he has an appointment with someone at the council on Monday.

My DS has a toddler, she shouldn't have to have him - if anyone should it should be me, we don't have kids.
I just can't stop thinking that my parents should be dealing with this. I'm growing more and more distant from them, but especially my DM because I can't believe she's doing this to her own child...

I think you are being a bit hard on your parents! How old is your brother? It doesn't sound from your op that he is still child aged..
At some Point surely enough is enough and your parents have to stop putting up with his behaviour? Or do you think they should just always be responsible for his bad choices?

If you don't want him on your sofa then don't have him. I think your dh is right to be unhappy about it but can see why you feel bad, It sounds like he needs help sorting his housing etc out but he doesn't have to stay with you for you to do that.

How can your parents deal with it? Realistically? Are they health professionals? Counsellors in substance abuse? They've made some bad mistakes as parents but that doesn't mean they're equipped to fix your DB. My direct experience is a family with alcoholic members. Those alcoholics infected that family like typhoid fever.... everyone who tried to help them was damaged by the experience. Those who didn't help them were criticised. Marriages failed, children were traumatised ... and the alcoholic simply carried on regardless leaving havoc in their wake.

Point him in the direction of professional help, be concerned, be supportive but don't let him jeopardise your life.

he's 22, definitely old enough to take responsibility for his own actions, but given his MH history.. I just don't know how parents could put their child on the street? I know I've not got kids, but..

cogito, I agree with everything you're saying in theory, and your experience sounds like it went along the same kind of lines, but if he decides he's had enough of his own family not caring enough about him and actually carries the suicide threat through, then what? I just can't see a solution.
and I'm sorry about your family too btw

From your original description he's had chance after chance to reform and various help from your parents. He was then given a 'last chance' and chose to ignore it. Talk to anyone involved in the management of substance abuse and they will talk about 'enabling behaviour' e.g. keep giving someone a place to stay, money etc... as often being well-intentioned but a big reason why someone never finds the motivation to improve.

I had similar with my db except he wasn't ill so not quite the same.

He basically burnt his bridges with everyone and ended up with me for four years. In the end our relationship which used to be very good became intolerable I snapped and flung him out. It was hard and I felt guilty but I had up remind myself he was an adult and I did not give birth to him.

Realising he was screwed was his making to be honest. He has his own council place now and is fine. We are very close again and all is well.

Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind op. However bad it makes you feel.

This is going to sound harsh but, if he successfully commits suicide, there is nothing at all you could have done about it. He could be sleeping on your sofa and still take his own life if he really wants to. There is proper help available for people like your DB and the best thing you can do is fight to get him that help. Same way as if he had cancer you'd be fighting to get him the best oncologist. Your parents, sister and you may love him but you are not the right people to treat him.

I love my young adult DCs dearly, but I don't think I'd carry on providing a roof over their head if they were behaving in the way your DB is. There's helping friends/family in a rough patch, and there's enabling someone to continue for longer on a self-destructive path - there's a difference, and PPs who say 'your first responsibility is to yourself and your marriage', are on the button .

Thank you for your replies, walkinthesand especially, awful but true that it makes you feel better if someone else says they'd do the same... :/

Hi op

My DH's brother is exactly the same as your brother. The only difference is his dad enables it by them sitting in the same flat abusing drugs and alcohol occasionally going to sign on then going back to the dr to be signed off.

MIL has done the same as your dad, got her son counselling, had him live with her, signed up for college, courses all sorts. Every single time he has thrown it back at her or stollen or been a total knob.

The mental health issues more than likely come from the substance abuse.

Your parents are doing the right thing, how can your brother learn to help himself if you all pick him up before he falls??

Let him hit rock bottom, let him be homeless and skint.

Then he may realise what and who he has in his life.

I know it feel alien that a parent would ush away a child but honestly sometimes they need to do it.

If they continue to support his behaviour it will never change. They have done all of the 'right' things by the sounds of it. They have held his hand, done the leg work in terms of finding help and short of marching him somewhere every day and forcing him to participate what else is there left for them to do?

He has to realise that if things are to change he has to do that himself.

If they helped him now nothing would change. It would follow the usual script so they have to do something different to get a different result IMO.

My brother struggles with feeling like an outsider. He feels like we hate him, no one would care if he died etc. It takes quite a bit for us to show him otherwise but he has finally understood that we can't fix his life for him. It's not a case of us not wanting to because we don't care. But it did take him being told 'No but we really do love you' by all of us for him to get this.

I won't lie though, it is hard and makes you feel very guilty.

This is not your parents' responsibility. It's not yours either, but don't make your decision based on the incorrect assumption that your parents should be shouldering this burden. They have done. It hasn't worked. They told him he was on his last chance, and he's blown it. The best thing they can do for him now is show him his actions have consequences, he can't be babied his whole life.

He needs to take responsibility for his mental health. And for getting his life in order. If either of your parents take him back now it gives him a green light to cruise through his life for another six months; it doesn't help.

As Cog says, help him get accommodation, but don't just let him freeload off you.

I expect you have heard of the phrase enabling behaviour and, unfortunately, if your db always has other adults in his life enabling him to make the choices he does (basically not work, use drugs/alcohol, abuse his relatives and friends) then he will continue to do so. Try not to blame anyone, not even your db. I would go so far as to argue that you should not even be helping him to find the best medical care either. Tell him that you are not qualified to deal with his problems and that he must find his own way in the world. Either he will or he won't, but even if you carry on sorting out his problems for him, he faces the same stark choice and, again, either he will or he won't. Its very hard to accept that, very hard, but you simply must.

Please support him to get his own accommodation.

My GPs enabled one of my uncles like this, guilt-tripping their other DCs, amongst which my DM (a single mum then) to overlook his drinking, not washing, and offer him our sofa and home whenever he would decide to crash at ours, many times around midnight.

It was horrible. He needed real help, not that. But instead he got cash from each siblings (lied to A that B had given him nothing, etc), slept on our sofa, drank, spent time with other losers and users, wanked to porn mags and let us to clean it all up, and then walk off to another sibling's home or back to mum and dad. Then again. Until I begged my mum to stop letting him the sofa. She did not listen to me until she came back to the gas left on (no flame) on and him gone away for a wander. Our home could have exploded.

I cannot help thinking that if my GPs had been tougher earlier on, he might have been able to lead a happier life. He has now a social worker, social housing, medication etc. but the many years of living in limbo have affected him and killed all family relationships now that my GPs are deceased.

Sometimes a helping hand is not a helping hand. I do wish the best for your DB. He is still young so he still has time to get help.

I don't think you should fall out with your DH over your brother. I think that if you need to help your brother, then set him up with temp accommodation somewhere, or put him in touch with charities who will help him find accommodation, or similar. If he needs money, and you feel the need to give it to him (I wouldn't but some do) then only give what you know you can afford, lend him nothing because you will get nothing back.

Under no circumstances let him take the piss or push you beyond your comfort boundaries, because once you let him do so, that will be his starting point forever more.

Thanks again for all of your replies, I'm sorry some of you are in or have been in the same kind of situations, and I know that what you're saying is right. I'm not giving him money as I know what it'll be spent on, and I've given him phone numbers/offered to make calls for him.
I guess I feel guilty that my ds and DGm have taken him in when neither of them should have either.. And that this is going to ruin every family relationship that I have. Just feeling selfish and guilty, for trying to get on with my own life.