Never told anyone this before but it is bothering me more and more.

[TheTeaLeaf]

I want to try to keep this short. I have name changed but am a long term regular.

Growing up I was very scared of my Mum, my biggest memory as a child was being scared of her. She would attack us, choke us, threaten us with knives call us awful names etc. She once made me eat my dinner off the floor when I dropped it, I was about five at the time.

Anyway as a teenager I took to shop lifting. On the surface we were a respectable family, both parents working, clean nice home etc. I don't know why I started shop lifting but I just did. I got caught and when my parents found out my Mum told my Dad that it was time he beat me (he never had before, it was always her). He did. I was fifteen and it was desperately humiliating, involved removal of my trousers etc.

About a year later (so I was 16) my Mum showed me an expensive item and then told me that she had stolen it. From then on we went shop lifting together (I had stopped completely up until this point, being caught and my Dads beating had terrified the life out of me). She pointed out the things she wanted, I took them, expensive ornaments, even food etc, she did it herself but not as much as she asked me to. If she was angry with me about something I would go out and steal something I knew she wanted in order to gain her approval. We didnt need to do it, there was plenty of money coming in. She would tell me that if we ever got caught I must take the blame because my Dad would divorce her otherwise and our family would be ruined, she implied that if this happened she would kill herself.

This was normal and the only person I ever told was my younger sister, who knew what my Mum was like but was less affected than I was for some reason, she was always much more independent than me I suppose. She was horrified, but with my Mum not me. She told me that hearing my Dad hitting me was one of the worst things she had ever experienced and couldnt believe that my Mum had told him to do that then encouraged me to do more shop lifting another time.

Anyway (sorry this is long) I thought I had made my peace with this and other things in my childhood, but she said something awful to me last year and I have not spoken to her much since then. In that time I have become angrier and angrier both with her and myself for doing this. Why did I do it? Was I so weak? I didn't feel able to stop, I was too scared of her. I feel that she sent me out thieving for her with no care for what might happen to me, criminal record etc. We lived abroad when this was going on and the outcome could have been serious, I would certainly have had to face great shame in the community we lived in and would probably have been sent back to the UK, she knew I would never tell anyone was involved and I wouldn't have but why not? I am really struggling with this and don't know how to make peace with it. I don't feel like I ever want to see or speak to her again or have my children round her but she is getting old now and I feel guilty. What she did was wrong wasn't it? But do I need to take responsibility for myself? I was so frightened of her though and had been all my life, but is that just making excuses?

I am sorry for the length of this but I talked about it again with my dsis recently and can't stop thinking about it. Thanks if you take the time to reply.

I am no expert but wanted to say your mother had serious problems you had no choice you were a child.Children will do anything for a parents love.Best wishes.

There's the thing - a child will do anything for a parent's love. She sounds delightful and not unlike my own dear ma. She never asked me to shoplift for her, but I'm totally certain I would have if she'd asked me to and I thought she'd love me for it. Let it go, it was just one of many things (I'm sure) that you had no real level of control over as a child. Forgive yourself.

What she did was wrong wasn't it? Yes, it was wrong without a doubt and it was not your fault in ANY way

But do I need to take responsibility for myself? No, she was the parent, you were the child. She is responsible, not you.

I was so frightened of her though and had been all my life, but is that just making excuses? That is not you making excuses, these are the facts. She was cruel and abusive and she blackmailed you into doing what she wanted.

I hope you can find some solutions!

I'm so sorry that you had such an abusive childhood. None of it was your fault. I don't think you need to question why you shoplifted, or think it was a sign of weakness. You had to deal with horrific behaviour from your parents and found a way to cope with it. That shows strength not weakness. Do you think counselling might help you? In some ways anger is a healthy reaction to the abuse you suffered, but it might be a good idea to find some support in coping with how you feel now.

I am so sorry that you suffered such cruelty as a child. It wasn't your fault. None of it was your fault. You joined in with your mother in a desperate attempt to get some of the love and attention that she should have given you unconditionally. You have nothing to be ashamed of. I am so sad and angry on your behalf. I wish I could go back in time, find the little girl that you were, scoop her up, give her a big hug and tell her how wonderful and unique and loveable she was. It's not surprising that you're having difficulty letting go of this - anyone would find it very hard to deal with. Have you had any counselling?

You weren't weak. You had no choice, and you were very young. I would take steps to distance yourself from her emotionally and ask for some therapy for yourself personally

Don't know what to say. Sending you love. You were a child even at 16. Your mother failed you. You have nothing to feel guilty about. Protect yourself and not the old lady. She will no doubt need to make her own peace with her terrible behaviour. Look after yourself and those who love you. Not much help but wanted to reply. x

The part I couldn't actually believe, OP, was the bit in your story where you revealed you are still in contact with these monstrous people Holy horse but that is shocking.

Do you really think you made peace with this, or merely suppressed it until it found a way back out again? It sounds as if you've never had counselling for what you went through, since the questions you're now asking are the sorts of things you would expect to answer through counselling. I would suggest that needs to be your next step.

Frankly your parents belong in prison. You were systematically abused by them and the original shoplifting was almost certainly a cry for help. However, assuming they are not in a position to abuse children any more, I think your first priority needs to be yourself and making sense of this in a supportive environment.

You certainly don't need to have contact with her, or feel guilty because she is now getting old. You owe her nothing.

I imagine even writing this down anonymously has been very hard for you. How are you feeling now? Be kind to yourself and perhaps treat yourself as if you had shock - not too much booze, hot sweet tea.

Thank you for your replies. Some of them made me cry but I am feeling quite numb and need to think about what you have said.

I have had counselling intermittently over the years but never for long periods of time and then I see my parents again and establish a relationship again and it feels like it undoes the counselling. I have been no contact intermittently too.

The thing that has always hung over me is that my Mum had a horrible childhood, worse than mine and that makes me feel sad and sorry for her. I know she can't help a lot of her behaviours. She truly is a product of her childhood and I feel by cutting her off forever I am kicking a person that is already so battered down in life. Its never clear cut in my mind. I haven't seen them at all for a year though have spoken occasionally on the phone and each time she tells me how much she loves me. I don't feel that she does though but I also think she never learned how to be a parent and because her life was so hard learned to put herself first as an adult and was incapable of knowing how to treat her children. When I was a teenager and young adult she was pretty bad too, seemed to really resent us and withold love from us, always seemed so angry at any needs we might have from her. I don't believe she loves us but I think its because she doesn't know how to . My Dad is very similar, controlling and angry person who thinks nothing of cutting us, his children off, refusing to make eye contact or talk to us for years at a time if we upset him. He knew some of what was going on with my Mum and us (not the shop lifting obviously) and just completely ignored it.

Its all so messed up.

Tealeaf - I am so bloody sorry for your parents behaviour. The fact that your father beat you, especially in that manner is fucking appalling. Don't blame yourself, you were the child and in no way responsible for your parents. It might not be as quick as thinking 'Oh ok, fair enough', it may take a while for you to truly believe that you did nothing wrong but I sincerely wish you the best of luck with the rest of your life and hope you manage to separate yourself from your 'parents'. x

I know she can't help a lot of her behaviours.

And yet you aren't beating your children and sending them out shoplifting, TheTeaLeaf. Are you? (I hope you aren't!) Why is that?

They had a choice to make, as adults, the same as you did. Repeat the old behaviours, the learned patterns, or break them. They chose to behave as they did. Both of them. Your dad violently assaulted you, let's not let him off the hook because he didn't send you out thieving. They may be the product of other vile human beings but it doesn't stop them from being vile human beings too.

I don't think you have forgiven yourself, and I don't think the counselling has yet led you to a point where you can. If you did, you wouldn't find contact undid the work of the counselling. You have to learn, deep down, that you are not to blame for what happened, before any contact with your parents will not be damaging and destructive. Please use 2014 as a fresh start to put your own needs first.

You are not responsible for your mother's childhood. My family dynamic sounds very similar to yours, but I have children now and you can bet your life I don't treat my children how I was treated: your mother is responsible for her own behaviour. FWIW your mother probably does love you, but the love has never managed to get past the anger or the resentment, and unless it ever does, it doesn't mean anything. It's just another stick to beat you with. Have you ever tried actually talking with your parents, and especially your mother about what went on and how you feel? I found it a very cathartic experience, despite the fact that I got the shitty responses I expected from them; I felt better nonetheless just saying my piece.

I am so sorry too tealeaf - your attitude towards your mother now is amazing, you sound very forgiving of her, understanding how her childhood affected her. As Tribpot says, you need to apply that to yourself, not that you need forgiving as such, your actions were absolutely your parents' responsibility - but if, in your head, you blame yourself, you need to take the same understanding stance and forgive that child you were.

Oh my poor love. I too was shocked to read that you are still in touch with your abusers.

It wasn't your fault. You were a child.
Your mum's difficult childhood is not an excuse-at some stage we all have to take responsibility for the choices we make as adults. You have done that and you have chosen to be a good person, despite your difficult childhood. Your mum chose to abuse you.

I'm so sorry this happened to you. But that's what it was- sunbathing which happened to you and something which sometime did to you-not something you did. You sound like a very brave and strong person.

*something.
Fucking autocorrect

The bit about excusing your mum because she had a bad childhood resonates with me.

However now I have children, I can see that I make choices as a mother and I choose not to repeat history.

Your mother has made the choice to carry on the cycle of bad childhood. I would walk away from her completely.

She terrorised you, messed with your head and manipulated you. None of that is your fault.

That you still have concern for her is far more than she deserves; as far as contact with you and your DC goes, you must do whatever you feel comfortable with and not feel a moment's obligation.

My parents failed me badly (nowhere near as severely as yours did) and I am aware that inside me there is still a child longing for comfort, protection and praise, things I never got as a child. That child has drawn me back to my parents again and again only to be given the same shit treatment I've always been given. The adult me has had to take that child and praise and comfort her instead and tell her firmly that she won't get what she wants but it's ok other people love her. Would it help to mentally take the 16 year old you vy the shoulders and tell her it's ok and you forgive her? Give her a cuddle and tell her all the good things that are ahead of her.

You will always long for parents because you didn't have any and you still don't. You have two people who created you and kept you alive. They also abused you. You owe them nothing.

oh my goodness OP. Make peace with yourself, please. You have been abused and terrorised by the people who should love and protect you. You have nothing to feel bad about and nothing to make excuses for. You were failed by them and yet you still feel responsible and guilty. It sounds as though you are working through this to build a healthy life for yourself and your children - that takes courage.

I would agree that your parents had a choice in how they behaved. My ex had an abusive childhood. It doesn't mean it's ok that he is abusive towards his own children. I can sympathise with his upbringing and what he went through, but I feel nothing but contempt for the way he behaves as an adult if that makes sense. By all means feel sorry for your mum as a child, but know that it in no way excuses her behaviour as an adult. Not all people with abusive pasts go on to become abusive. Adults are capable of understanding the impact of their behaviour. If you feel you get somewhere with counselling and no contact with your parents, maybe you need to try this again?