Help me to work through my Christmas / family anger.

[Fairylea]

I really need to vent and more than anything I could do with someone explaining why I feel so angry about this even now it's all over and done with.

Both dh and I have toxic families. My mum has bouts of extreme drinking and lots of bitterness related to her two divorces etc etc. She lived with me until I was 31 and then after a series of rows where I felt she was taking the mick financially I asked her to move out. She has been vile to me and vile to dh during a series of massive rows, now passed. She is however nice to our dc,whom she only sees when we are there and she is now drinking much less if at all and is more stable emotionally. She would like to build bridges. She has three small but unruly dogs that we have said are not welcome around the dc so we had said we would not be going to her house but she was welcome to visit at ours.

Stay with me...

Dhs family is large (as opposed to just me and mum, no one else) and there are lots of sibling issues and frequent arguments that end in shouting matches. For me an argument is a big deal and I do not forgive easily. They shout and forgive in the same sentence, if that makes sense. Very quickly.

We had a massive row with Dhs family about 3 weeks before Christmas. I don't want to give too many details as it will out me but essentially it was about dh feeling like another sibling was favoured over him again, he is always treated like the black sheep of the family.

However, Christmas comes and dh is feeling all festive and decides to be nice to my mum and extend the olive branch and basically agreed that we visit her at her house on the provision that she locked the dogs away, which she did. And it was okay.

And then we went to his family on Boxing day and they all acted (including dh) like there was never an argument and everything is hunky dory.

And you know what.... I feel so fucking angry! And I don't even really know why.

I don't particularly want to have to get on with my mum again or have to visit her at hers and I know that is my choice but I feel like now we have gone round and things have changed I should keep going and I really don't want to.

I also feel like I really dislike Dhs family and the way they deal with things and the constant arguing and making up and I just feel like I never want to see them again.

I've surprised myself by how angry I feel.

I need to get a grip don't I.

The weirdest thing is that dh is normally more angry about this type of stuff than me but now he is annoyed with me for not being able to let it go!

This sounds so, so very stressful. I would be taking a step back and distancing myself. Don't beat yourself up, be kind to yourself too.

Real pop psychology here - are you angry because they have actually behaved in a reasonable manner for once, which is making you feel a bit guilty for hating them all?

(Ok I know you haven't said you hate them all but it's a short-hand way of covering a multitude of conflicting feelings for them)

You are rightly angry because you (and your DH) have done/are doing all the flipping work!! Your Mum may well be trying to build bridges but it sounds like too much damage has been done. Just because someone wants to build a bridge that does not automatically make the other person have to walk across it, step on it or even look at the chuffing bridge! You are expected to be grateful for the bridge building and the making nice by DHs family. Feel angry! You have every right to! I would have checked out of these relationships ages ago. Anger is natural as others are manipulating your thoughts and behaviour by being twats and you not liking twattiness is normal. Bathe in the intolerance to twattiness - it is a natural built in protection device - ignore it at your peril!

A least his family are open about how they feel. Rowing and making up sounds relatively healthy to me, much better than simmering resentment, which is what you seem to be feeling. Do you feel angry with them for being able to express themselves in a way that you can't?

I'm wondering if your anger is displaced? do you feel it isn't fair that Dh family can be open row, and then forgive each other? Do you wish you could be open and then forgive in your family?

Thank you so much for the replies and pop psychology. I half expected to log in to find people telling me I was being a total twat and to stop being so stupid. So its a relief to have nice replies, thanks.

I actually didn't think about some of those points. I think it's really a mixture of everything. Maybe I do feel a bit cheated in a way because I am so angry about things still and I have no way of venting as everyone seems to have moved on and forgotten about it all and I can't (especially with Dhs family).

I also think maybe part of it is that I just can't seem to get my head around their way of arguing. They argue like it's the end of the world (sil and mil literally swearing to never see each other again, ignoring each other for weeks etc) and then make up again. And they're always moaning about whoevers not there to each other. It's constant. I'm quite an introverted person and it's all too much for me.

My mum is awkward because dh thought he was doing the right thing suggesting we go round to hers as she and I used to be very close and I think he thought he would try and build some bridges for Christmas.. and he said it on the spur of the moment in front of dd aged 10 who was then excited to see gran (mostly to get her presents!) So I couldn't say no actually I don't want to go across the bridge. Grrr. And now I feel angry with dh even though he thought he was being nice etc so I feel unable to say that really.

His family are just so difficult... His mum and his sister are so close they tend to conspire against everyone else and it's impossible to visit without sil being there as well (even though she has her own house and 2 dc she is constantly there) so I always feel ganged up on. One of my bugbears is that none of them will make any effort to visit us even though all of them are in good health and there are trains that bring them to ours and I've offered to pick them up the other end (about a half hour journey). None of them drive. Yet when sil went on holiday further away than us mil, fil and both other siblings all made the effort to get two trains 2 hours away to visit sil on holiday! They have not visited us once in 4 years.

I'm ranting. Sorry. It's good for me to have a moan.

I think next Christmas I will drop dh and the dc off and go and have a McDonald's.

I wonder if the problem is that it all seems very unpredictable. Its awful to have people rowing around you and to know that even if they make up, they will be at it again soon enough. And you are tense around your mum because of her previous drinking issues.

It sounds very stressful.

Thanks.. that's true. It is very unpredictable. I feel like I haven't really enjoyed any of the Christmas really because I've been almost on the edge of my seat waiting for it all to kick off either with my mum or with Dhs family. I didn't even eat any of the turkey dinner I made for us all as I was feeling so wound up with it all and that makes me feel sad as I wanted Christmas to be a really nice time for us all as ds is a toddler now and starting to get it all. (No one realises I didn't eat much of dinner as I had some in front of me and just picked at it and dh was busy feeding ds with me).

I think a little of it is jealousy as much as I hate to admit it as sil reminds me a little of the type of relationship I used to have with my mum before it all went horribly wrong (mainly due to mums drinking). I used to rely on my mum for odd bouts of babysitting when dd was little (this was before mum drank heavily and was stable) and we were friends. Now I have no one to ask to help with the dc. I don't trust any of our family with them for one reason or another. Dh and I haven't had a night out in 18 months. Sil on the other hand regularly leaves her two dc with mil and goes off for the weekend and at least one night a week. Due to Dhs work patterns I have not had a lie in since we had ds. I have thyroid and pituitary problems and I am tired. I am really tired of everything.

I also feel like everything is slipping away from me a bit in terms of I used to be very on top of the housework etc and now with me being run down etc and having ds being a typical toddler everything is covered in dust and it's hard to keep everything as good as it was. Common problem I know. Dh does as much as he can.

I love my dc to bits and I just feel like the world is big bad place full of selfish fuck wits so I want to hide away in a hole.

I suppose being honest I just feel really hurt by everyone.

I think it's perfectly rational to be extremely angry actually.

Firstly, in order to "make up" with someone properly in a healthy manner, I think people need to actually acknowledge the hurt that's been caused. If everyone acknowledges that what they said was hurtful and harmful and why, and explains why they said it, and that they're sorry about it and they will try not to cause that hurt again (or why they think it was justifiable and why they're not sorry), then it's clearing the air and they can move on.

If OTOH they just start talking again without apologising or acknowledging then it's not moving on is it? It's just brushing it under the carpet. I'm a firm believer that forgiveness isn't actually real without acknowledgement. What's the dynamics here Fairylea, is it the genuine apology and acknowledgement or the sweeping under carpet? If the latter, then of course you're right to still be feeling angry - the cause of your anger hasn't been acknowledged.

I also think it's perfectly reasonable to be angry with your DH for in effect putting you in a position where you couldn't say no to the crossing the bridge without upsetting your DD. It was wrong of him quite simply - either thoughtless or manipulative - and the fact that he won't acknowledge that he put you in that position, is also wrong. Of course you're fucking angry, you've got every right to be. It sounds as though no-one is acknowledging your feelings or admitting your right to have them and that is a horrible situation to be in.

It's really not unhealthy or OTT to still be feeling anger. It sounds quite normal to me.

And after your last post, it sounds like you are exhausted and that as is so common, all the emotions have come to the fore at Christmas.

I agree AskBasil, the issues's still live as it's not been resolved, just swept away.

The natural resentment remains.

Distancing yourself will help

I think it's clear your DH's family don't mean most of what they say in the heat of the moment, whereas you take it seriously and to heart. I had a boyfriend who use to tell me we're breaking up at every single row. I always believed him and he never meant it. It was hard work.

Thanks. Very interesting replies.

It's definitely a sweeping under the carpet scenario. No one has apologised for anything and both my dm and mil are very similar in that they will never say sorry for anything. Ever.

So the feeling angry about the issues still being live make loads of sense. So maybe I'm not irrational after all. That makes me feel better.

You're right about dh as well. I am angry with him because for whatever reason he did put me in a difficult position. I put on a smile and got through Christmas so as not to ruin it for everyone (dc really) but actually I am seething. Dh has kept asking me what is wrong all day yesterday as I have been cheery but emotionally distant from him. I kept hoping it would just blow over and I'd feel ok again but I don't and in the end I told him I was upset about it all and he basically got a bit annoyed and said it's all done now and we don't have to see them again for a while now so it's fine. But it's not fine!

I felt like such a complete and utter muppet at his parents having to smile and open presents and oooooo and ahhh over them all when I just felt like saying you're all fucking wankers. It is all just such a pantomime. As petty as it is I came home and put all my presents from them in the spare room as I don't even want to look at them. I may give them to charity.

I was trying really hard to distance myself from my mum and them and now I feel I am back to square one, especially with my mum who after not texting me for several days before Christmas is now back to texting me loads . I have ended up just not replying after a couple of short replies.

And all the time I just keep thinking maybe it's me being unreasonable. Reading through other threads people seem to have similar problems with their families and muddle through. I just feel too worn out to cope with all the intensity of it. Before my mum went off the rails I went through a difficult upsetting divorce and redundancy and moving house and illness and I have no place for anymore stress in my life.

I think that there might be a couple of issues at play here.

Firstly, you were expecting conflict/problems, and it didn't happen. All that adrenalin had nowhere to go.

Secondly, the fact that your H is raised in a unequal environment, where volatility reigns and issues are never resolved means that he isn't stopping to hear you. He's dismissing YOUR issues with your mother.

Admittedly for what he perceives are good reasons, but he's resolving conflict the only way he knows, which is to dismiss it entirely.

You need to be heard, you need issues resolved and what just happened went completely against all that.

Try and find somewhere calm, quiet and peaceful, ask yourself (outloud if poss) what you're angry at and try to logically pull it to pieces and put it back where it needs to be.

I think your underlying health problems --> tiredness are certainly not helping. From your further posts, I would say that your anger is largely based in the fact that NO ONE paid ANY attention to YOUR feelings, needs or wants and didn't even notice that you were having a shit time and unable to eat because of being on the edge of your seat waiting for something to go wrong.
So you are feeling invisible, dismissed (as Hissymas said), and unimportant.

This isn't about you being the "most important" person in the scenario, just about you wanting to be at least as important as every other bugger. And I think you're feeling that you're not.

You NEED to make your DH sit down and LISTEN to how you feel about this. Write it out if you need to, if you're likely to get flustered or let him dismiss it again without listening. Write it down and read it out to him, but at a time when you're feeling relatively calm.

You ARE just as important as everyone else and that needs to be addressed.

And actually, if you're the sort of person who dislikes/doesn't deal well with conflict, then being present at a family row where people are shouting and screaming at each other, and telling them "that's IT", swearing etc. can be quite traumatic!

I remember being at work one day, I worked for an old gentleman in his library, and his daughter turned up and had a flaming row with him, swearing at him and everything. It certainly had my adrenaline levels pumping, just having to hear it, I felt quite sick and shaky!

Its equally difficult for DH to understand the way you feel about all these rows as he has grown up with that way of conflict and it really doesn't mean the same tohim!!!! I know t hats not much help, but wonder if it would help if you talk to a counsellor about it all and at least that way you will understand your own reactions and what it is you need and you will have someone who will listen to you.

Thank you. Just talking about this here has given me lots of food for thought from your replies.

I think I'm feeling very sad in a way that I can see dh behaves a lot like his family - he will get annoyed about something, have a bit of a shout and then sulk for a couple of days and then it's all forgotten. He expects me to do the same and to forgive his family I think. Whereas I rarely if ever argue about anything. If I'm unhappy about something I will say so and try to discuss and resolve it but I will never descend to shouting and slamming doors etc (which is what dh and his family do, very confrontational) unless I am really pushed because it's just too exhausting for me.

I am feeling quite unnerved having suddenly been confronted by the fact that fundamentally this is how his family really behaves. And I'm not sure I want any part of that.

My mum is about all the family stress I can cope with.

The thing with his family kicked off in the first place because dh sold something on ebay that his mum had given to him. It was something she got for him on a discount at work and he did use it for a while (didn't just sell it) and then decided it wasn't for him and so eBay ed it. It then transpired that his mum had been spying on our eBay (!) And was angry he had sold it. All hell broke loose and then sil, being purely malicious, set up a fake eBay account and sent me a nasty message through eBay (it was obvious it was her and mil later admitted it was and they had been together when she did it). I now feel they are always watching my eBay (which I don't want to change my name on as I have hundreds of positive feedback) so I can't sell anything without them commenting on it. This is particularly annoying for any old Christmas or birthday presents they might give us that I would choose to sell! (They wouldn't know otherwise!)

Then it came out that mil had inherited a very substantial sum of money and had given sil a large portion of this by way of buying her a new tv, ipad and so on - none of which was anything of substance and dh and I struggled to fix our roof and pay our bills and mil didn't offer him anything at all! Dh confronted her about it and she has denied giving sil the money but we know through another source that she did.

So we had weeks of all that going on and lots of tense words and then everyone just forgot all about it because it's fucking Christmas. And I still can't use my eBay for selling without feeling I'm being spied on!

You're right. Emotions do run high at Christmas and I am worn out. I had hoped to be back at work by now but mum cannot be trusted to look after ds in the way she did look after dd when dd was little (10 years ago) and childcare in our area is awful. So until ds starts school we are trying to muddle through financially and it's hard. I don't want to become a childminder before anyone suggests it, I couldn't cope with the worry of it all.

Things are very tough all round and I think I'm just getting bogged down with it all.

Wow, they do sound quite nasty.

The Ebay business sucks, quite frankly.

I think you will just have to bite the bullet and get yourself a new Ebay account I'm afraid. And DON'T use your real name on it, and also keep using the other ID occasionally so that they don't get suspicious and go looking for your other account.

With the relationships generally, have a sit down, perhaps work it through here on MN, and decide what you want, don't want, are willing to tolerate, aren't willing to tolerate.

Talk to your DH about it, tell him that just because HE is able to suppress it (because that's all he's doing, he's not REALLY forgetting about it) doesn't mean you can, nor that you have to.

Then act in accordance with those boundaries.

They don't visit you - make sure you invite them. Do visit them, but only when convenient for you, and be willing to cut the visit short if you are getting uncomfortable.

When the arguments start at your In-Laws just say 'I can't deal with all of you drama llamas, let me know when you're finished with this one and I'll come back' and then walk out of the room (take a book or magazine with you if need be).

Tell your DH to NEVER try to organise things with your DM again. Especially not in front of your DD. If he wants to suggest something, he does it quietly, in private. You should be given the opportunity to think about it quietly for awhile before deciding what to do. He doesn't have the right to make you deal with your mother the way he does with his own. He probably just did this because it means that you will feel obliged to just let things go with his family, as he's being so loving and obliging with yours (?!).

If you need yet another reason, I wonder if it is frustrating to see the families behave well and know they could do this all the time, but they go slipping back to their old ways. How could conflict, anger, excessive drinking, confusion, be preferable to civilised interaction? And yet they choose it every time, after demonstrating they do have options.

In fact I can't think of a reason not to be quite miffed at the very least with the whole dysfunctional lot of 'em, likeable though they may be at times (but giving only one of your children gifts from a windfall sounds disgusting, I would never do that to my lot; and the eBay spying is kind of a new low, really!).

They sound absolutely vile tbh, worse and worse as you post more about them.

Please don't feel that you're not justified to be utterly pissed off with the whole bloody shower of them.

Sounds like your DH under-reacts because it's normal to him so he doesn't quite feel the visceral disgust you feel for their behaviour. He's just too used to it for it to wind him up the way it ought to.

WRT the eBay spying, can you not block people on it?

I hope you reported the nasty messages to eBay?

Could you afford some counselling OP? That would help you unpick the underlying issues and develop ways to manage difficult situations and feelings.

Thanks for the replies. I know realistically I am going to have to open another eBay account, I am just so angry about it all, it's such a shame to lose about 300 positive feedbacks (100% positive) because they keep spying on us :( I don't even sell much of anything mostly toys and a few bits of clothes from ds to help make ends meet.

When the eBay rows started mil and sil basically ganged up on us when we confronted them about it and initially mil denied sil had sent the message and then after a bit she admitted she knew sil had but they had all thought it was all a joke! Not funny to me!

I did report the messages to eBay but because the seller account was created literally to just send the messages to me they didn't go any further with it. The account has been inactive since.

I actually still have no idea how they found out our eBay name anyway as it's nothing to do with our actual name. I can only assume mil must have typed the name of the item she was wondering if dh sold into eBay and our listing came up and she saw our other things and worked out it was us. I really have no idea. We never gave her our eBay name.

Dh and I talked a little earlier. He said he knows I am angry about it all but like he did with my mum he thinks I should just put it all to one side and forget about it. So that sounds to me like (as a poster suggested) that he did the whole grand gesture with my mum to make me feel like I had to kiss his parents etc arses too.

I pointed out to him that despite being quiet (which is normal for me anyway) I had not been obviously rude and did my best to feign niceness to them. He seems to think I didn't make an effort with them, which I didn't and I won't. But I was nice. Enough anyway.

It's been a really horrible few days. Dh and I are now really frosty with each other. Yet again I feel like I have to just kiss and make up and move forward but I really don't feel like I can yet but what is the alternative? There isn't one really so I will have to just sweep it under the carpet, again, and move on.

I am definitely going to distance myself from both families though. Not going to be making any effort again.

Sorry also meant to add I can't block them as I have no idea whatsoever what their name is on ebay.

Fairylea I think this issue is just going to keep arising isn't it?

I get the feeling that the reason you feel so bad about it is because you've realised that there is no solution for it - unless your DH acknowledges the full extent of the problem, you as a couple can't tackle it, it's just going to keep rearing its head over and over again for years on end. Looking at that prospect is debilitating and exhausting and every now and then the sheer unnecessary work of it is overwhelming.

Maybe you can talk about it with him in a few weeks time when the rush of christmas is over and before one of them does something else outrageous, so that it's a calm neutral time?