Hi, new to the site, looking for help

[artemis23]

I'm looking for some support advice and help and was recommended this site. it feels hard to know where to start - so I will start from nowish and work backwards! I recently had to end what became an emotionally /physiologically abusive relationship, i'm finding it difficult to leave but his behaviour reminded me of my ex (Father of my child) ex before him, ex before him etc etc. I in bolt horrible lightening I realised all these abusive experiences behaviours/tactics I have had In my relationships I also experienced by my mother, in fact freakishly my ex and my mother said a couple of things that were almost word for word the same!

I have done some reading on abusive relationships and am using a forum to help with that. but I started to read about narcissistic personality disorder and all seem to fit with my mother. it has always been incredibly difficult to describe her behaviour, I have felt there is something 'wrong' with her but have had I idea what until now. no one has ever made me feel as worthless and crazy as her, she plays the victim always and I have been regularly accused of being cruel and punishing, ruining her life etc, and yet it is her that I now see in full Technicolor as being so very cruel and punishing, but her victim act is very pervasive.

I'd like to share a couple of historic examples, before explaining what's happening now.
I was sexauly assaulted/raped/abused on several occasions in my teens, which she either ignored or blamed me for. I had no boundaries and was drinking destructively from an early age. I was raped by someone whilst on holiday when 14 at the time I didn't understand it was rape, but became scared of HIV (its was the 80's) when I told her about it she suggested I wear a condom next time, I realised years later she knew I had been raped. when I was about 15 I had let a lad in my house while she was at the pub and he stole a small Casio calculator, a discussion ensued with her after about this missing calculator - but a previous incident had happened with this lad in which he had tried to rape me and had sexually assaulted me, I bravely told her what happened previously with this lad and she looked at me said nothing then started complaining about the calculator again, she took me in the car to his house, I waited in the car while she went shouting at his parents about the stolen calculator. these are just a couple of examples, she was very emotionally dependent I was the was person she confided about everything including her considering suicide. when I would visit my dad in the schools hols her first words were 'I have you missed me' I would always say yes and no was no worth the guilt trip.

I feel she had me to meet her own needs and when I went off the rails or started having difficulties she punished me mercilessly. I struggled with my relationship with her for many years but in about 2005 I broke contact with her (v long story) but the gist being that after a period of time in counselling I realised that an incident that happened when I was 13 with a group of boys was in fact rape and abuse which I had been so very ashamed of, at that time (2005) I started to realise how my mum had neglected me, and during a visit to hers a row ensued I ended up shouting in her partners face that I had been gang raped and she had done nothing about it, in the most horrible pathetic victim voice she said 'so that's why you have been punishing me all these years' and that was it, her partner told us to leave and after hearing nothing 2 weeks she sent me a brown envelope, with my address typed on it (?) with the toothbrush I had left at her's inside - nothing else, so after trying to write her to no avail I broke all contact with her until I had my little girl 3 and 1/2 years ago.

Things seemed better with her, she seem to be respectful and even showed some kindness and I felt that now I was a mum things had changed, I foolishly let her in again and things have gradually started to get difficult again and in the last few weeks It has come to head. her and her partner live abroad, but have been spending longer period over here since buying a flat here. they came back a few weeks ago, I have been very distraught about my very recent break up but also disturbed by realisation of how similar his behaviour and mothers are so have found it very difficult being around her, on one visit she came round and started criticising my flat and my daughters behaviour, and the following visit after her having my little girl over night, she complained about my daughter - that I need to sort her tantrums out etc - and finished off by saying that maybe I need to take her to a child physiologist. I was absolutely distraught after she left. yes I am finding my LO challenging at the moment she is 3 and 1/2 she is very strong willed, intelligent and confident, I am struggling with her defiance especially as I have been so low. nursery think she is great so confident, sociable, chatty, no complaints there, my good mum friends think my LO is great and yes hard going but nothing wrong with her.

I pulled out of Christmas day with my mum as if she said one more word my bubbling rage towards her would have exploded, of course she is saying I ruined Christmas for her, that she cant win with me, that after all she has done for me...etc. I have said to her that I am finding my relationship with her difficult and could she consider having some kind of family mediation/counselling together to try and sort things in the new year. in all honesty I don't think I can continue having a relationship with her, but my daughter loves both her and her partner very much. I guess that the ideal thing for me would be to have a safe place to confront her once and for all about her abuse ( I Know she wont here it, but at least I will have said my truth) and then negotiate how we move forward with them having a relationship with my daughter. my mums response to the suggestion was along the lines of Fine! I presume your sorting it, at least I get to say how I feel! they go back to Spain in mid Jan - I really don't what to do, I can't foot the bill for family counselling on my own, I don't how realistic it is to get what i'm looking for, I don't know what sort of organisation could help, i'm scared it will be an emotional bloodbath but don't what else to do, has anyone got any ideas? has anyone on here done anything similar with parent/s? so sorry for such a long post and thanks to anyone for taking the time to read it . artemis.

Artemis. I wonder if it's worth trying to rebuild a relationship with your mother? I know your DD loves her now, but she is small and would soon forget. That sounds harsh I know, but narcissistic people don't change - quite simply because they don't have the compassion or where with all to believe or understand that they are doing anything wrong in the first instance.

So, if you do continue to engage with your Mother, it will always be on the basis that you describe. The only alternative I an foresee would be to agree to see each other a few times a year - her birthday etc (not yours, why spoil it?!) at somewhere like a restaurant where she has to behave herself.

I know there is a temptation to have it out with her, but if she is truly a narcissist, you will not get the outcome/regret/apology you are craving, so I think you need to accept a superficial relationship, or none at all.

I'm sorry - my mum has many narc traits and now has some dementia which has just increased the self absorption - it's hard.

And go and talk to someone about the rape and abuse separately. Not her.

I didn't want you to think there wasn't anyone out here, sending a hand hold, I'm sure someone else who has more experience with this will be along to help soon

I would run a mile. How would you feel if your mother displayed the same characteristics of her personality - that you experienced - with your daughter?

Your daughter will forget her and your mother is unlikely to change. I can't imagine treating my girls like that! She is damaged and damaging.

Sorry you have been through what you have described. X

Have a look on the Stately Home thread, where you will find people dealing with toxic parents - often by going No Contact.

I would run a mile too, personally.

I've read up about NPD as well. It is interesting how these traits are responded to by children and internalised. I wouldn't go non contact as it creates as many problems as it solves (IMO). Briefly I would say to you to stop expecting answers or responses from her. I would be very wary of her ability to manipulate your daughter and would therefore carefully manage your mother's interactions with you and your daughter. Take control of her - smile when it's needed, attend the christmas functions and walk away with your dignity. Know you have much more than she ever will because you have a daughter that loves you. Realise that you are a mother now and she really never was, and that's sad for her as well as you. Good luck.

Why are you allowing your dd to stay overnight with her without you? Serious question. What do you think she gets out of it, and do you think she's safe from your mother's emotional abuse? It sounds like your mother is starting on her, trying to pathologise her normal behaviour as abnormal.
I hope you are coming to the realisation that abusive people don't change without a huge amount of reflection and work on themselves so honestly I don't think either of you should be having contact with her.

I don't think you should let your ddaughter stay with her either. She has a history of being extremely unpleasant towards you and most of all, not protecting you. Your daughter may not be safe with her / from her. Specially if she's strong willed and your mother, frankly, is unpleasant.

It sounds like you do wish some contact with her. Ok, fair enough. But it sounds like you're getting drawn into her and affected by her. Her criticism (naturally) gets to you and you're annoyed by her games such as "finally, ill get to say how I feel".

I think you need to step back from her, while not cutting all contact. You need to develop ways of handling her criticism so that it's deflected and that you do not respond to her. Especially over your childrearing.

But seriously, stop letting your child go there. She is a very poor mother-type and it will do no good to your child - and she is your priority over your mother. Your place is to protect her.

thank you all so much for your responses. I had intended to post on stately homes but having trouble navigating myself around the site! I might copy my post in there too.

I guess I had felt that on some level my mum had been making up for things, maybe even in sub conscious way by up until now be a very loving granny also her partner ( I find it difficult as he believes all the rubbish about me that she has fed him) is very good with her and gentle and have kind of felt they have balanced each other out. but now I am getting worried about her negativity being put on my daughter and this not the first time she has tried to pathologies her she once suggested she had ADHD which I know absolute shit.

this is what she did to my brother who is 5 years my senior, he is not the most communicative but from what understand from her and him is had a lot of tantrums she did take him too a physiologist which he passionately resents her for. she even said during her recent criticism to me 'well I took A (bro)' my blood boiled at this and I said 'and did that help?' he was very sympathetic when I told him what she said about my Little girl, she clearly can't handle the fire in my daughters belly ( I was very very passive as a kid, until I hit 13). I am so proud of my daughters confidence and fieriness as much as I find it challenging as I don't ever want her to go through anything like what I went through, when me brother hit 13 she sent him to live with her sister as her than husband didn't like him and she wanted to save her marriage.

I am now starting to feel concerned about her potential behaviour around my little girl. it just feels so difficult either way, I know my daughter would forget eventually but she would be heartbroken not to see them, perhaps It can only be contact with me there, I so need the abuse out of my life and I am tired of having to slap the smile and passify her. the more I understand how much she has damaged me the painful this is. if I go no contact it not only impacts on my daughter but the rest of the family. I am feeling pressured to do something by her and my guilt as she clearly doesn't understand why I have backed right off, but I really need to not make a snap decision. god this feeling really hard, the last couple of times she has visited I have started to regret getting back in contact with.

thanks all for comments, I just need to sound it out and your responses are really helpful x

I think we all long for our DCs to have a relationship with their grandparents, we think it'll be different this time etc. But it won't I assure you. I'm very low contact with my family for very good reason. Things won't change and you need to protect your DD.

I don't think counselling will work tbh. She won't take it on board.

Stately homes thread is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families

By allowing your daughter to have contact with this woman you are failing her. Yes shr loves her but she is tiny and can't protect herself. Your mother is an abusive fuckwit. Do not expose your precious dd to her.

To add my mother was not abusive but she failed to protect me from abuse. For that reason she will never have my children overnight as she has clearly demonstrated that she can't be trusted.

Thanks DSTB, I know in my heart she wont take it on board its just feel like having the opportunity to say it all a outload in the same room with her would help me! I feels like I have to stick gaffer tape on my mouth all my life but she gets to say what she wants. I guess this just not realistic though and counselling would probs be an emotional bloodbath ! ive posted on the link you gave as well. thank you

Hi CD, yes you are right she is an abusive fuckwit. its just never seemed that black and white in regards to my little one and mum as she has genuinely showed her love and kindness, but I guess the more of a voice and the more of little person in her right that my LO becomes, the more my mum will want to squash her.

My mum loves my kids too, and is a great grandmother. But she has clearly shown in the past that when push comes to shove she can't be trusted. Your mother has gone a lot further than that. She is personally abusive. There is no reason to believe that she will be any different with your daughter. Plus trying to maintain their relationship is hurting you. Your dd needs you far more than she needs your mother.