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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Feel like I can't have sex with or socialise around DH. Very long, but any replies appreciated.

65 replies

nameechangee · 16/12/2013 15:08

Hi everyone.
I could really do with a bit of feedback from some of you wise MNetters. It?s a very long story and I?m not good at being concise, but I will do my absolute best to make it as short as possible.

I started seeing my now DH at school when we were both 17 (we?re now in our early 20s). At the time, I was living alone with my dad, who was an alcoholic. It would take a long time to describe the many ways in which this was affecting my mental health, but in short, I was not very happy with my family situation: house was a tip, dad never spoke to me/was always drunk, etc.

When I started going out with DH (who obviously wasn?t my DH at that point), he was not particularly nice to me, but because I was very naive I just ignored the many ways in which he was disrespectful towards me, assuming that because he was willing to be in a relationship with me, he must deep down have thought a lot of me (yes, yes, I know. I have learnt my lesson). He was 17, very emotionally immature, socially unskilled, had zero actual close friends (although I didn?t realise this at the time because he hung around as part of a large group, and I just assumed at the time that he was closer to some of them than he actually was), had never been in a relationship before being with me, and, in retrospect, did not have a particularly healthy/respectful view of women. Terrible relationship with his own parents, especially his mum. There were a lot of warning signs that I just didn?t pick up on because I was so young.

Because the situation at my dad?s house was fairly dire, and DH and his family were willing for me to spend unlimited time at his house, I pretty much moved in within a few weeks of our relationship. I grew very emotionally dependent on DH in a way I had never been with anyone before ? I was used to family members ?deserting? me (my mum was also an alcoholic and had very little to do with me), and I became terrified of DH leaving me. I must, on the outside, have looked like a stereotypical clingy girlfriend, but in reality it was something stronger than that, like an anxiety disorder or something: I was constantly terrified that DH was going to get hit by a car or have some other horrible accident if I spent time away from him. I knew it was an unhealthy mindset but I didn?t know what to do ? I was just terrified of being left on my own again. My friends didn?t get it, thought I was just neglecting them because I couldn?t be bothered, didn?t like DH anyway (I can see why now), and drifted away. DH was not particularly nice to me, was actually horrible at times, but I just ignored it, thinking that deep down he must have cared about me.

I made sure we both applied to the same universities. I know, I know. We both got into the same one. In the summer before we left, DH became a born-again Christian (long story, but the only girl in the big group of ?friends? he hung out with was a committed Christian ? more on her later ? and she dragged him and others along to a Christian festival, where he ?found Jesus?).

When we got to university, he became very weird. In retrospect, I think he was possibly suffering from some sort of mental health problem as well. For example, he would convince himself that he had ?heard? God telling him to go and evangelise to random people ?for example, in the library at university. To be honest, it was humiliating to watch. He would insist on going out at about 1am on Friday and Saturday nights to hand out biscuits on a plate to drunk people coming out of clubs ? he would have gone alone, but because I was still suffering from this anxiety/attachment thing with him I insisted on coming with him because I was terrified he would get stabbed or something. I would feel the waves of condescension coming from the people he spoke to, I could tell how weird we both looked, but I couldn?t stop myself going for fear he would die if he went alone.

At one point, he told me that he would break up with me because I hadn?t Found Jesus and something about how ?light should not be yoked with darkness? or whatever, some scriptural thing. I had a panic attack, felt like I was going to die, and told him that I had Found Jesus as well. He believed me. I had actually started to hate Christianity for what it was doing to him (although I recognise now that it was not actually the religion?s fault, but some personal problem he was having), but I had to make a show of going to church (where I felt massively out of place and uncomfortable ? it was a huge one where people would routinely fall over due to being ?overcome with the spirit? and ?speak in tongues? and stuff during worship) and reading the Bible or else he would start telling me I needed to be spending more time with God.

My head was a mess by this point. He was the only person I ever spent time with ? I had completely failed to make friends at uni because of how anxious I was when I wasn?t around DH, and other people didn?t like DH much, generally. Or me, any more, because I had become so withdrawn and lacking in confidence. Prior to this, I had been a relatively normal, happy person. Now I felt like I was going a bit mad. I felt completely alone.

He proposed to me (more on this later). I said yes. We were 19. If you had told me before I got into the relationship that I would marry at 19 then I would have laughed in your face. I had always wanted to travel, have different jobs, different relationships, be independent, etc, but my anxiety was destroying me.
Once, in a period of vague clarity, I had started making plans to apply for Camp America, thinking that I needed to some time away to clear my head. I told DH, who in turn told me that to go away for such a reason would be ?selfish?, and that the only reason I should go abroad was to do missionary work, preferably in war zones. I crumbled and deleted my application.

Some time before the marriage, I (stupidly, immaturely, I know) asked DH if he ever had crushes on other girls while he was with me. Something that needs explaining at this point is that DH is 100% completely against lying ? in spite of being very nasty to me at times, he always thought he was behaving according to the Bible/Jesus? teachings, and Jesus is apparently v clear on the morality of lying ? i.e., don?t do it. I had been hoping to hear, at worst, that he had had some mild crushes but that he was ultimately in love with me. I was told instead that he didn?t find me particularly attractive, was in fact in love with the girl from school who had taken him to the Christian festival, though she was absolutely beautiful, perfect etc. and wished I was more like her. (At some later date, post-wedding, it transpired that the only reason he had even proposed to me was to ?impress? her by making a show of how Christian he was, by ensuring he married me before having sex, etc (we had had sex before, but only prior to his Finding Jesus). It sounds ridiculous and illogical ? why get married if he wanted her? I know, I know - but knowing him as well as I do, I believe it entirely.)

He was also attracted to several other girls who went to the Christian Union at our uni, apparently, which we both also attended. But not me. He apparently wished I was more ?smiley? and ?chatty? and ?wore nice clothes? (i.e. girly clothes ? I?m a jeans and t-shirt person) like all the other Christian girls he knew. I tried wearing a dress after this, and he told me it looked bad on me.

Anyway, at this point I became suicidal. I actually wondered if I was going insane. Looking back, I don?t know why I continued to put up with his shit, because I could not have been more miserable being away from him than I was with him, but he was literally the only person in my life, and without him I would have been entirely alone. I also still loved him. God knows why. In a bid for some voice of rationality, I rang my mum (the alcoholic; I have since found out that she also has a personality disorder). I told her everything ? the first time I had ever done so with anyone. She told me to stop overreacting and changed the subject.
We got married. The wedding was horrendous. I was miserable. All my family and ?friends? were there telling me how ?happy they were for me? and how DH and I were ?brilliant together?. It was one of the worst days of my life. The honeymoon involved a lot of me hearing about how perfect the girl he was infatuated with is (he felt like he had to tell me in order to be honest ? I know it sounds insane but I think this was the truth as he genuinely seemed to hate telling me about it), and also about how he wasn?t attracted to me.

We came back. In a surprise twist, the girl he was infatuated with ended up at our uni and we ended up sharing a house with her and her boyfriend. This involved a lot of DH seeing her, and then telling me his exact thoughts on her appearance in relation to mine (in a bid to be honest). I stopped wanting to sleep with him, but he told me I had to because not doing to would make me a Bad Wife in the Eyes of God. So I slept with him. He then told me that we couldn?t use contraception anymore because God Didn?t Like It, and that if we weren?t ?supposed? to get pregnant then God would prevent it. I argued a bit, but I was so worn down. I was starting to genuinely believe that The Bible was true and God was real, but He just didn?t want me and that I was destined for hell. It sounds insane, and possibly was, because I honestly think I was on the verge of some actual madness. (I dropped out of uni because I couldn?t cope, and got a job in a fast food chain ? not the best job in the world, but in all honesty the people there were lovely, I was able to talk to them without DH there, and I think it was only because of the time I spent with them that I didn?t either go mad or kill myself.) I had sex with DH without contraception, and lo and behold, I became pregnant.

Being pregnant gave me something to focus on. Eventually I mustered up the courage to tell DH I was no longer a Christian (didn?t have the courage to tell him I never had been in the first place). He let out some tortured cry (literally, like an animal dying) and then went completely cold, told me I was ?twisted and evil?, withdrew all physical affection. I tried to suppress how much this affected me because I was worried the stress would harm the baby. I considered separating from DH, and told him I was considering it, but he told me I would be an unfit parent on my own because I Didn?t Know Jesus, and that he would take me to court and win custody of our baby. I didn?t really understand how things worked at that point, and was too scared of this eventuality ? along with being homeless - to make a break for it.

Sorry, I know this is getting extremely long. I will try and speed up/cut it short.

Basically, I had the baby. In the hospital, DH kept trying to evangelise to the midwives etc, same with the Health Visitor, which made me extremely uncomfortable. But actually, he has become a lot milder since having our dd and has matured a lot, gained empathy skills and emotional intelligence. I really think he was mentally unwell before. DH is still a committed Christian, but no longer tells me when he thinks about other women, no longer pressures me to convert, and tells me he loves me and is glad he is with me. I know it sounds almost unbelievable, but he is actually now a very good husband. We have a good relationship, make each other laugh, etc. We are happy, and that includes our daughter. It has been a long road, but I have regained a lot of what I lost in terms of my mental health and am a lot stronger than before. If he was a bastard to me, I would leave, without doubt. The anxiety that I had about being apart from him has completely gone.

But there are problems. I really hate having sex with him. It brings back memories of feeling used, worthless, etc. It makes me feel awful, if I am honest. I have tried explaining this to him, but I don?t think he ?gets it?. I have pretty much stopped sleeping with him (and am strong enough now to tell him where to go if he pressures me) because of how awful it makes me feel, but he still makes me feel guilty about it. It really, really hurts my feelings that he can?t see how much he has affected me in this way. I have a high sex drive and would love to be able to have good, regular sex, but with him it is impossible. I cringe away from the thought of it, and though he doesn?t say it in so many words, I know he thinks I am being unreasonable. I feel guilty, because I know it must be hard for him, but I don?t know how to solve this.

The second problem is that at some point during the darker days of our relationship, I developed Social Anxiety Disorder. He was very critical of me at the time, and I suppose I thought that everyone else was seeing the same flaws in me that he was, and I became very self-conscious and unsociable, which was compounded by my complete isolation from family and old friends. I have since started coming out of my shell again, and have started making friends, which is amazing and something I never really expected to be able to do again... but I can only do it when he is not there. He isn?t critical of me any more ? I suppose he keeps any negative thoughts to himself, having stopped feeling the need to overshare in order to be honest ? but as soon as he arrives in any social situation, I start feeling nervous and something shuts off in my head. I had someone over the other day after DD came home from school, and we were having a good conversation; then DH came home from work early and unexpectedly, and I felt myself start to shake, I lost mental coherence, and I became very nervous.

DH has told me before that he doesn?t like how unsociable I am, he finds it disappointing that I don?t want to make mutual friends, etc. I would love for us to have mutual friends, to be honest, but like I said, there?s a block. I haven?t even tried explaining this to him because I know he wouldn?t understand.

This OP is huge and I still feel like it?s only the tip of the iceberg in terms of being a comprehensive explanation of my situation. Sorry it?s so long. I?m not sure anyone will get through it, but I?ll post it just in case because I really feel a need to discuss this in order to get completely past it all, and I still have nobody I?m close enough in RL to talk to. Thank you so much to anyone who actually reads it.

OP posts:
JaceyBee · 16/12/2013 20:15

And I am so sorry that you have has such a horrible time and been let down so badly by people who were supposed to love and cherish you. You did not deserve any of this. Please get some individual counselling for yourself, I cannot recommend this enough.

lilyaldrin · 16/12/2013 20:22

It sounds like you have mentally survived a really abusive situation (which you yourself say almost drove you to madness/suicide) by convincing yourself that actually it is good and happy.

The truth is you are only a little bit happy, when your husband is not around and you don't have to have sex with him. His presence turns you into a nervous wreck again.

I cannot possibly see how this can be a positive situation for you or your little DD.

You're young, get out, start again, be happy. Get that job, travel, make friends. This man has no power to take your DD from you, don't stay where you are through fear.

MatildaWhispers · 16/12/2013 20:34

I read it all too, sorry all this has happened to you. Even if he was ill before, he was horribly abusive and I don't see how you would come back from that to go on to have a happy relationship.

You went through a period where he was basically forcing you to have sex with him, and to the extent that you were not able to use contraception when you wanted to and you became pregnant. No matter how unwell he may have been at that time, he somehow mouldedyou so that you accepted, and ultimately believed, his warped perspective on how you should both be living your lives. It sounds like he was so controlling he literally drove you to the brink of madness. I just can't see how you could ever move on and rebuild the relationship, do you not think you would be full of resentment and anger?

Jux · 16/12/2013 21:20

One thing stands out to me, though there are so many. You do not want to sleep with your h. Unsurprising since he regularly raped you. I've never heard of anyone actually wanting to screw their rapist ever, ever again.

haveyourselfashandy · 16/12/2013 23:00

This man is an abuser.He will continue to abuse you and he will abuse your dd.He would stand no chance of residency of your child if you split up and your life would be 100 percent better! Just imagine your life as a free woman,use that confidence you have gained since becoming a mother.It's never too late to start again op and I hope you find the strength from somewhere because its what you and your dd deserve.

nameechangee · 16/12/2013 23:38

Ok, I have been trying for about an hour now to write a decent response to all this, but I am finding it impossible - keep typing things out and deleting them again. Feeling extremely confused, to be honest. Will have to think about it all for a lot longer before coming to any definitive conclusions. Many of the things that have been said have really struck a chord with me, though. I do feel happy, but perhaps this is only because I was deeply depressed for so long and am no longer in such a bad state. This is certainly not how I imagined myself/my life as an adult before all this started, that much is definite.

One thing I want to clarify is that I really don't think he ever treated me with any actual malice. He certainly was abusive - I am not trying to minimise that - but I think it was more due to a severe lack of empathy and caring than anything else. He never actively wanted to hurt me - he just didn't care when he did, and was very selfish.

It has been very strange, in a good way, reading all the responses, because a part of me has always assumed (since the phone-call to my mum, anyway) that if I told anyone about all this then they would tell me I was being ridiculous to feel so hurt and damaged by everything, or possibly that it was my fault for telling DH that I was a Christian and finding it so hard to break things off. It means a lot to hear people telling me it was as big a deal as I felt it was, and that nobody has (yet!) told me I was just being an idiot. Thanks so much everyone Thanks

OP posts:
MatildaWhispers · 17/12/2013 00:06

If you really do feel happy now that's great, but I personally found that I pushed a lot of anger and resentment under the carpet for many years because I got to a point where I couldn't express how I felt and be heard so I kind of just gave up and tried to pretend I was happy. Sorry if this comes across wrong if you actually are happy, I guess I just find it hard to understand how you could genuinely feel that way about him after all the shit you have had to put up with.

It was indeed a big deal. I also think you might find counselling really helpful, as you would be able to talk and get validation for how you feel about the relationship.

I don't think it really matters whether you believe the abuse was malicious or not, it still happened and it was horrible x

Sleepyhoglet · 17/12/2013 00:16

You sound vulnerable. If you wanted out, would you have any options? You are still young, it isn't too late to change your future

MatildaWhispers · 17/12/2013 00:25

If you did want to leave him, you may well need some support to help you practically and emotionally, and you could try contacting Women's Aid. You can phone or email them. I found talking to them much like talking to posters on this board, and I know some local branches offer counselling too.

EATmum · 17/12/2013 00:32

OP, you don't sound like the person you're writing about - by that I mean that it sounds like you're much stronger and in a much better place than previously. The knowledge that you can have independent friendships without your H, and that you are worthy of respect, it doesn't sound like you had that before. I really hope that you get to a point where you can deal with what has happened to you - and not allow people like your M trivialise it.

SomethingOnce · 17/12/2013 00:46

Your head's been so badly messed with that the relationship with your husband cannot ever be right, IMO.

At the very least, I think you need to see a counsellor, alone, to talk through in more detail everything you covered in your OP, although arguably the best solution would be to get out ASAP, get some distance and perspective and time so you can see clearly. I very much doubt you can judge the reality of your situation from the inside.

I too am very sorry that this has been your adult life so far, but you have plenty of time to put it behind you and have the life you deserve Flowers

wannabedomesticgoddess · 17/12/2013 01:20

I am 26. I am basically a different person from who I was at 17. I made mistakes back then, I am just lucky enough that I didn't marry any of them.

What has happened to you is horrendous. I can only guess that the happiness you feel now is some kind of mental block that your brain has created in order to cope with it all.

What's important now is that you don't waste anymore time on this man. I don't care if he has no empathy, or if he was brainwashed. There is no excuse for his treatment of you and there is no justifiable reason for you to stay with him.

You need to get out. Start your life with your son. Build it up yourself. Its not as hard as it seems. Once you are ready there are people on here who can point you in the direction of support.

You are slowly coming up for air, one day soon you are going to have your lightbulb moment. You will realise that you don't have any feeling left for him, and nothing keeping you there.

Aussiemum78 · 17/12/2013 02:34

OP, I think you should go see your GP and get referred to counselling. I wouldn't be surprised if counselling and medication will be needed (at least short term) to control your anxiety.... and I don't think it is anxiety, I think you have PTSD (post traumatic stress).

If you need an "alibi" for counselling, you could tell your husband that it is for your childhood and your anxiety, not about the relationship. You can deal with him once you have had time to grow stronger and recognise when he starts to manipulate you.

I'm so sorry, it sounds like you have never had healthy relationships.. relationships where you are equal, respected and supported. I really hope you experience that in the years to come.

lapetitesiren · 17/12/2013 03:00

Nothing to add to the advice others have given but just wanted to show you some support. You deserve to have a relationship that isn' t abusive and I really wish that for you.

glastocat · 17/12/2013 04:35

I am absolutely amazed, but not surprised at all, when I read about so called devout Christians behaving in such a cruel and totally 'un Christian' manner. As an atheist I wouldn't treat a dog the way your husband has treated you, no wonder you don't want to sleep with him! I do hope that one day you get away from this man, I suspect any mental health issues you have will disappear with him. You sound lovely by the way, you deserve a better life than this.

lapetitesiren · 17/12/2013 06:48

A devout christian wouldn' t behave in that way- its all about caring, understanding and forgiving- he' s either twisted the teachings or not fully understood the message to start with. He' s judged and bullied her and used religion as an excuse.

AgathaF · 17/12/2013 07:16

What a lot you have been through.

I can't see you ever flourishing whilst you remain in a relationship with this abusive excuse for a man. Crucially, I can't see your DD growing up into a happy, well adjusted child/teenager/woman whilst she has such an abusive man as a role model in her life.

Please, reach out to people who are there to offer you support. Go and speak to your GP, your health visitor. Ask them to arrange for some counselling for you for a start, although I think you may need more than just one group of sessions. Phone or email Women's Aid. Talk to them about your history and your situation.

You can move on with your life. You can take your DD and carve out a good life your the both of you. You need to take your courage in your hands and talk to people, plan leaving and then do it. For your own sake and for your daughter's sake too.

FruitbatAuntie · 17/12/2013 13:29

Agreed, he is not behaving in a christian way, not in any way at all. Totally the opposite - even now, let alone how he was before. You would be so much happier alone even without a friend in the world, than being with this abusive man. Really. It's hardly surprising you can't bring yourself to have sex with him.

I have read many sad threads on Mumsnet, but this is one of the saddest OPs I have ever read. I really think Women's Aid and counselling could help you enormously.

You sound like a very loving, loyal, caring person. You deserve so much better than this. You only get one life, and it is your job to show your DD that it is not okay to be treated like this. Children who grow up in abusive households very often repeat this pattern when they are older.

Leaving feels like such a huge step and it may seem impossible to you now. But you will probably find that if you open up to people about how you feel, they will do everything they can to help you and your DD. Please don't suffer like this for any longer, you owe it to yourself and DD. Your actions have not caused this in any way, and it is not your job to live out your DH's idea of how life should be at the expense of yourself.

nauticant · 17/12/2013 15:07

It means a lot to hear people telling me it was as big a deal as I felt it was, and that nobody has (yet!) told me I was just being an idiot.

You've got to be joking. It sounds like you've spent years in a living hell and I'm amazed you're somehow still coping and have some fight in you.

Feeling extremely confused, to be honest. Will have to think about it all for a lot longer before coming to any definitive conclusions

You definitely need to speak to someone helpful in real life. Women's Aid would be a very good place to start.

CynicalandSmug · 17/12/2013 17:26

I too think you need some kind of outside help, womens aid or similar.

I also think you need to look at some of the threads on here from women in happy marriages. You have spent so long unhappy I don't suppose you know what happiness is right now.

You could have a great life, it's out there, and you seem a fighter. Fight a bit longer and get the life you deserve.

Thistledew · 17/12/2013 17:52

I can completely empathise with not wanting to have sex with your H, and also the bit about needing to keep him separate from your friends.

I am sorry - I don't have time to post more fully now and will come back later but I wanted to let you know that your responses are completely normal and rational and are a start of you healing. Sorry to do an incomplete post. Will be back later. Smile

Jux · 17/12/2013 21:40

Yes, fight a bit longer and get the life you and your dd deserve.

Women's Aid.

nameechangee · 18/12/2013 11:15

Hi everyone, don't have much time to write this so sorry for potential errors/abruptness. Have been thinking about this thread pretty much constantly since starting it, and a large part of me does want to leave him, although I have felt like this before but have always felt as though there are things holding me back. Previously it has been that I worried I wouldn't cope on my own, but now I think I could. There are other things though. I feel like the reasons I want to leave are 'selfish' - i.e. I would love to have some independence, space to be my own person and to get over the issues I have. People have commented saying that they don't think I will completely heal unless I am away from him, and I think this is true.

One thing is that I know he would want dd every weekend (it would be 50/50 if not for his job), and I would find that very very difficult. She loves him and he is a decent dad but she is much more attached to me at the moment. He is a hands-on dad and can do practical stuff, but I would worry about how well he was looking after her in terms of her emotional needs, although this would perhaps simply be paranoia based on the past: he is still not great at the whole empathy/emotions thing but he does get the basics such as comforting her when she cries etc and she would certainly not be neglected as such. I am just struggling with the idea of being away from her for so long.

I also do love him (albeit not 'in love' with him) and would miss him. I do resent him a lot and feel very angry about things, but these emotions seem to come in waves, and I know that if I left there would be periods of intensely missing the good things, such as shared sense of humour, having someone to talk to in the evenings etc, and would feel v guilty about the fact that I was leaving him over the way he had been in the past rather than an ongoing problem he was directly causing. I would also feel guilty about leaving him on his own.

One thing I am struggling with is that he doesn't seem to understand how bad it was for me. I have talked to him about it several times, and he apologises, says he loves me and feels bad that I was so sad (said in a very unemotional way) but that he doesn't blame himself because he 'had reasons' for everything he did. He then seems to forget we ever had the conversation, as opposed to him making any sustained effort to make things up to me. But then he cries if I talk about leaving.

Something I feel I should mention at this point which I didn't put in the OP but that seems more relevant now is that I am currently pregnant, due in Feb (literally one of around 3 times we had sex in about 18 months...) and I am very conscious that anything I do now will be how the new baby starts out in life. I really really want to do the right thing here for both my DC and am anxious about making a mess of their lives. We have some money saved up so moving out would probably not be an issue in the short term in any practical way.

Still very very confused - thanks again for all the replies, finding this all very helpful x

OP posts:
EirikurNoromaour · 18/12/2013 11:30

It's much easier for you and the children if you split when they are small. If you have doubts about being together long term, even if you aren't ready to make plans yet, that's a factor to consider.

nameechangee · 18/12/2013 12:19

But then he cries if I talk about leaving.

Just wanted to say that I realise how manipulative this makes him sound. In reality, I don't think it is deliberate manipulation; I think it's just that the abstract idea of my sadness doesn't affect him in his day-to-day life, especially since I try to block it out and it largely only comes through subconsciously, whereas me leaving would have very obvious repercussions for him. I think it's another example of him being selfish but not actually deliberately trying to hurt me.

It's much easier for you and the children if you split when they are small. If you have doubts about being together long term, even if you aren't ready to make plans yet, that's a factor to consider.

Yes, am very conscious of this as well. Had actually been wondering if maybe these feelings have come to the forefront again, after such a long time trying to block them out, due to that 'nesting instinct' thing women are supposed to get. Like I'm trying to arrange a stable home before the new baby arrives.

OP posts:
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