Stuck in the middle - how to avoid a crappy Christmas?

[CambridgeBlue]

I always feel stuck in the middle of my DM and my DH but at this time of year it gets worse. Last Christmas was awful because of it, I'm determined it won't happen again but not sure how to ensure that.

DM is generous, supportive and well-meaning. She is also demanding, over-sensitive, says she hates being the centre of attention but ensures she always is, and quite manipulative. She's had a lot of troubles over the years which I've supported her through and she's in a much better place now. Instead of enjoying that though, she seems determined to create drama at every opportunity.

DH is a good husband and a reasonably good Dad. He's also fairly anti-social and extremely stubborn - he detests being told what to do or being made to feel forced into something.

I am constantly stuck between the 2 of them trying to keep the peace and it's really wearing me down.

Examples: DM lives a 2 hr drive away in the arse end of nowhere. DH hates driving there in the winter. We've managed to get out of going there for Christmas but she's decided we have to go up for a meal early in the New Year. DH is going to moan about this so I dread telling him - but I'll have to as she's bound to 'drop it in' over Christmas otherwise.

DM think jokey gifts are hilarious. DH doesn't get them at all and thinks they're pointless. She's bound to buy him something stupid and he, while not actually being rude, will make it clear what he thinks. I will hear about it from her for the rest of the year.

DM likes everything traditional i.e. done her way (even at my house she'll bring or do certain things to ensure Christmas is how SHE wants it). DH (and to a certain extent me) prefer to keep things low-key and casual. We have busy lives (which DM claims she does too but endless clubs, charities and social stuff is not the same as juggling demanding jobs and family life imo) and just like Christmas to be relaxed.

I think DH is unreasonable for not just going along with things to keep the peace (and make it easier for me). But why should he do things he doesn't want to?

I think DM is unreasonable for trying to organise everyone and always wanting things her way. But I know much of it is because she loves us and wants to spend time with us.

I am beginning to dread Christmas and feel thoroughly pissed off about the while thing. I hate that though as I want it to be a lovely magical time for my DD - I don't want her to remember childhood Christmasses as Daddy being rude to Grandma and Mummy taking refuge in the wine bottle because she's sick of the whole thing :(.

Just a quickie

Ide call a family conference and tell them this is how it's gonna be, read them both the riot act with much love but if they both think there's going to be a re run of last year then you and dd are off somewhere else to enjoy xmas without either of them.

Don't truck any crap from either of them if they want to act like kids then they can be treated as such.

I totally disagree with Guiltypleasures. I can see you're in a tricky situation, OP, but there are various things you mention in your post that would really piss me off if I were your DH.

You accept that your mum is able unilaterally to decide that you & DH HAVE to do something, & don't think your DH has any right to a say in it. Don't get me wrong, I think it's completely reasonable that you're going to see your mum over the holiday. But you're adults: she shouldn't be able to demand that you visit at a certain time without any discussion, & you shouldn't think you can present that to your DH as a fait accompli - or even worse, hide it from him for ages, as you are doing!

Your DH does sound like he's being a bit rude about gifts, but that's between him & your mum. You can't totally control their relationship. She chooses to keep buying him the type of gift he hates, he chooses to respond ungraciously. Let them get on with that bit, but don't let your mum moan to you about his reaction. Your mum shouldn't be trying to get you to slag off your husband to her.

It sounds like you & DH are roughly in agreement as to the way you like things at Christmas - low key & relaxed - so why do you have to subordinate your wishes to those of your mum all the time? You've got a child / children so you're a family - surely you have some right to define together how your Christmasses are going to be?

You seem to have a problem being assertive with your mum even though (or because) you acknowledge that she's difficult. That's understandable. But it's not fair to expect your DH to just go along with it all to make your life easier. Your mum is unlikely to get any easier, I suspect - shouldn't you & DH be setting a few boundaries together?

I think you're right actually Loon (and not just because Guilty's idea of a family conference fills me with horror). DH can be quite uncompromising but he sees how DM's behaviour winds me up/upsets me so I can understand partly why he finds her hard to cope with. Trouble is he's like this with other people too, to the point that DD and I do a lot of things without him, so that tends to skew my perspective where my mum is concerned.

Incidentally she only told me about the meal in the new year this morning so I'm not hiding it from him for ages, just choosing my moment about when to mention it.

Ok, I think you have to choose and respect your partner's wishes over your mother's. especially as actually, laid back low key christmases are what both of you want. Its only your mother who wants the whole thing.

It's also really unreasonable for her to go on and on for the whole year if your partner doesn't like his present. I'm sorry but it sounds like she expects everything her way, and that's just not on when the family unit is you, your partner and your DD.

Sadly, because she is clearly a bit of a steamroller you -are- going to have to draw lines and put up with some hassle. This situatoin means that neither you, nor your partner nor your mother are happy. You're going to have to choose to let that continue, or to make 1 or 2 of the three happy by doing it their way - and I profoundly hope you choose to make your husband (and you) happy not her.

You have to decide if you and your partner -want- to go for New year's meal. its not up to her to decide. It's also not reasonable to expect your partner to just go along with things for the sake of peace. You have to respect your partner's wishes more here, OP.

How you draw lines makes some difference in how she will react and the eventual outcome. She will not like it and you -will- get drama for a while. But if you remain calm, clear, and most of all you and your partner stay united (manipulative people often try to worm their way in between a couple who are standing their ground) then in the end she will have to accept your boundaries. Like a child she'll try to push them, but because therés a lot of good in your mum it sounds like she will basically accept them.

why does he have to go - can't you or dm drive>?

Oh I'm sorry, Cambridge, I was making an assumption there about the new year meal.

I suppose if your DH is naturally antisocial & wanted to avoid getting together with your mum primarily for that reason, my reaction would be different. I think there is an obligation on husband / wife to make an effort with the other's family, even if they'd personally rather avoid get-togethers.

But given the full context, I do think the two of you need to present a united front with your mum. My MIL is quite difficult & I admit that that may, of course, affect my viewpoint. DH & I have both had to work quite hard at setting boundaries.

He doesn't have to go in theory custardo - as I said DD and I often do things without him. But he won't be any happier with me driving up there on my own (especially if the weather's crap as it could well be). It's the whole 'being expected to do something' thing that he has a problem with, as much as the actual doing.

I do make the effort to respect DH's wishes but his stubbornness and refusal to budge on any front (not just mother-related) gets a bit wearing.

I find it impossible to see who's being unreasonable in these situations. I guess DM is because while there's nothing wrong with inviting your family for a meal, the fact that she will make a fuss if we don't go makes it hard not to.

She always does this - we agree to have Christmas here and she'll visit us but somehow she just has to engineer it so we go back to hers fairly soon, possibly because she wants to see us and likes cooking for us, but maybe because she knows DH won't want to and she's trying to put a wedge between us?

Iin fairness if your husband is that stubborn and antisocial then it might just be because she prefers to be in her own home, not specifically getting at him. Or it might be.

I can understand that a DH who is extremely stiff necked can get very wearing. But that in a way is a different problem between you and him. Your mother is a problem for both of you. Questoin: is it possible that if your DH sees you standing up to her more (and she does not have the right to browbeat you into her way of doing things) ... will he actually maybe give just a little himself? over other matters, not this one. Or will he remain as inflexible?

Either way, I see your mother's steamroller nature as the greater problem here, and a separate one really from your DH. Even if his nature makes the problem with your mother worse.

So your OH can't once a year go along and pretend to be happy, not even for you?

Sorry but I think it's him that's being out of order, can't he make this compromise for you?

They clearly do not like each other but your husband being rude is just not needed. By the sounds of it, he does what he wants and to pot with anyone else's wishes. On that note, I'd just go without him.

You're all right, they're both a nightmare! But lovely in other ways.

I've mulled it over in my head and decided that visiting family in not unreasonable so DH is just going to have to go along with it or leave me and DD to it. But regarding a lot of my DM's other behaviour, I see his point and am prepared to 'side' with him. Hopefully this will show both of them that I'm trying to accommodate their wishes without letting myself be pushed around - in my dreams!

Thanks for the advice, sometimes posting on here just helps you get things straight in your head, not easy when there's nobody you can talk it over with because 2 of the people you're closest to are those involved!

Sounds like they are both difficult and you could be more assertive with both of them, but not on behalf of the other, for YOU and the things that are important to you. If when you stop cow-towing and mediating they create drama, think about what that tells you.