How much do I push dh to visit his dad this Xmas?

[Oddsocksrus]

Dh and fil have reached an impasse in their relationship.
They aren't close, never have been but we have always made an effort but have tbh have given up this year.
Fil just isn't capable of showing love for his children I fear, he was widowed 25 years ago when dh was only 12, I feel that is the root of the problem and that fil cannot move on from his grief. He has pushed his two sons away. Bil rings him weekly, visits him quarterly and makes him engage with him, dh used to do all of that but just the same as bil never got anything back. I should say that fil is in the middle of the country and his two boys are as far apart, pretty much, as you can be geographically either side, not easy for popping round.
We took fil north for BIL's big birthday party last spring, it was hard to get fil to agree to go, hard to get him to the party, he wouldn't talk to anyone initially but played so happily with his three grandchildren for ages and then relaxed enough to speak to people. On the way home he said he wished that he did things like that more often and so we invited him to stay in the summer, to spend time with his granddaughter and to have a bit of a holiday with us. He said that he would ring to make the arrangements but that it would probably be either June or August and that he would definitely come.
He didn't ring of course, because he never does and dh has taken this as a final sign that he just doesn't want him or us. He didn't remember dh's birthday, no call/card then either and he hasn't asked/written to find out about our dd.
He won't travel in the winter through fear of burst pipes so won't come for Christmas, we usually head up the weekend before Christmas, take a nice lunch with us ( because he is unlikely to feed us even on an arranged visit) and take presents. It is perfectly pleasant when we are there and he is always emotional at visits because it is so good to see us but in between there is nothing, at all, he can't even pick up the phone.

I can't go this year as recent surgery means that I cannot do 8 hours in a car so poor dh has to deal with dd4 on a long journey on his own plus the anxiety of seeing his dad and so hasn't made arrangements to see him.
We can't stay there as he doesn't like people in his house so we usually push it and make it a there and back in one day excursion..

Fil won't even see a GP or a dentist so finding him a counsellor would be a non starter I feel, he doesn't want any intrusion in his life and sadly dh thinks that this includes us.

It breaks my heart, I wish fil could see what a fabulous man my dh is, he is a wonderful husband and father, really brilliant at his job and running a successful company taking great care of his employees.

Do I push him to make arrangements or shall I just pop the presents in the post to fil and say 'sorry we couldn't visit this year, maybe if you rang sometime we could set a date for the new year?'
Shall I step back and make as lovely a Christmas as I can for dh and let my family fuss over him because they love him and are delighted he is part of our family?
Sorry v long, thank you if you got this far

I have so many thoughts about this, so I can only begin to imagine the turmoil in your head!

My gut reaction though is that in the nicest possible way, it's not your problem. I suspect that your FIL has always struggled with social situations and relationships, and now that he is alone and isolated, those behaviours have become magnified.

You need to detach a little and take your cue from your DH. What does he want to do?(leaving guilt aside). If he knows he has your support, he will feel more comfortable with any decision.

I'd agree that popping the gifts in the post would be a good idea this time. Include a reminder to call, or maybe a suggestion that you will call when you both have a new diary so that you can make concrete plans?

Maybe you could write him a letter telling him what you've told us about your DH- who by the way sounds lovely

You both need to remember that his distancing behaviour is a reflection on him, not you and your family unit. We are all responsible for our own happiness.

You and your family have got the right idea

In a bit of rush, so don't mean this to be blunt! Step away. It is not your responsibility, place or job to push your DH into a relationship with a father that has never had that relationship with him anyway.

I understand your hurting for your DH, understandably so, but trying to force two people into having a relationship when one isn't bothered/ willing is simply a recipe for disaster.

They're both adult men, if they want to establish contact with each other, then they will

I'm reading this not as rejection but as FIL prefers to be prodded along rather than take the initiative. He may feel he's imposing himself if he arranges a visit, for example.... some people are like that. They don't want to bother anyone and become very insular. So rather than waiting for him to make the move, if you give him dates, times, 'we'll pick you up from X location'.. whatever the details... then I think he'll go along with it.

Oddsockrus, you could be me both with the Fil and the odd socks. Lol.

What I do is send a card, write a little letter just saying happy Christmas here's a pic of Dd and she is doing blah, blah etc and Dh is doing etc etc and give us a ring when you get a chance.

I wouldn't push Dh to do anything but you can still have a relationship as a Dil and keep the door open for them both to get back in contact.

Your Fil doesn't sound like he is doing this to be mean more like he is depressed and not great socially. It sounds like maybe his wife did all that and he is just not good at social things. He sounds like he hasn't come to terms with the bereavement and hasn't been able to move on. It's really sad that a counsellor is not an option but it's not really up to you to sort that.

In the years when I didn't even send a card I always felt mean and guilty on Christmas Day that my Fil would be feeling lonely without even a card.

Have a nice Christmas with your family and give him a ring in the New year.

Cogito that is how I have always felt about fil but it feels almost cruel to have to practically force him to do things.
I worry a lot about him as he is getting on now (seems 15 years older) lives in an isolated place, no heating, won't heat water for himself so isn't taking particularly good care of himself though is always immaculately turned out with a spotless home. He won't answer the phone most of the time which has meant friends walking miles in the snow before now for us to make sure he isn't dead down the bottom of the garden.

I do understand that I need to step back, but I am also sad for our daughter who loves her grandad and wants to see him, they are so great together and you can watch him unwind when he is playing with his grandchildren, he is a different person.

He never remarried? He doesn't sound like he has many friends locally either. Never socialises? Does he still work? Retired?

Never remarried,voluntarily visits sister and brother, has a couple of friends in the village but I don't think he sees them more than to have a chat in the street.
He does go out once a week to shop
He retired three years ago and gave up his car too as his eye sight isn't great and he refuses to go to an optician to get glasses....

All of those things are very isolating.... village life, bad eyesight, no transport, retirement, no partner ... and can seriously affect someone's confidence, especially if they didn't have a huge amount in the first place. I think it's worth persevering rather than thinking he's acting maliciously.

Please do not push your DH into having a relationship with his dad. There is nothing between them and your FIL has chosen to shut everyone, including his son, out.

I look at you here; why do you want them to have a relationship, is it because you think they should out of societal convention?. Examine carefully your own reasons for this. The road to hell after all is paved with good intentions and any interference from you with regards to their own relationship will reflect on you badly.

"your FIL has chosen to shut everyone, including his son, out"

Do you really see it that way? Not a lonely person who struggles socially and feels he's a bit of a burden?

I see a very sad, lonely nice man who doesn't have the ability or confidence to get himself out of the situation.
He has many OCD tendencies (around security routines, counting etc) which have increased in recent years, he is very anxious about new situations and I feel that part of the keeping family at a distance is because they have tried, many times, to find ways of making life less stressful, painful and difficult for him and he hasn't been able to make the change.
I want dh to persist in trying to have a relationship with his father because they do need each other, I don't want fil to feel unloved and unwanted the same as I don't want that for dh
Both sons have married into large, gregarious, loud families who have welcomed them, they both have totally different lives from that of their childhoods and they are both great, involved, enthusiastic fathers.

I understand that there isn't an easy solution to this one and I do know that it isn't up to me either.

When people reach adulthood they should take some responsibility for their own situation.

Your DH's dad. His decision.
I hope he realises how lucky he is to have a DW that supports him and worries about him.

From what you say, your FIL actually likes seeing his granddaughter and visitors, even though he's, well, not particularly hospitable and struggles. But you are clear that he really does enjoy seeing them and your DD enjoys seeing him.

Social reluctance / fear can get worse as people get older. Sadly aslo, he is unlikely to see his son as being as excellent as he is. But there is still love, from the sound of it, and he does still really enjoy seeing your family.

If you can without getting into difficulties yourself, I would say persevere. Both he and you get something out of it, even though he's very hard work to get to that point. It will never be as fun as with your family, but your FIL clearly does appreciate it.

This year because of your surgery, it may not be feasible to go. But next year (or in the summer?) perhaps you could go, and maybe arrange a hotel overnight so you don't have to do it all in one day? Or else your husband and daughter could go, possibly.

Regarding looking after himself, he is likely to get worse as he gets older. He will likely have to get quite a bit more incapable from the sound of it, but eventually you could contact Social Services if things become highly risky. Also .... he lives the way he wants to live. He is content with that and can't change, from what you say. The day may come that something -does- happen but you can't stop that. And if you did, he may be more unhappy.

Accept him for what he is (which it sounds like you do); don't hope for the impossible, and do make the effort as long as you are able to without really inconveniencing yourselves.