How do you stay married? (Warning: long)

[DoubleBlueCrostini]

I'm not sure how to handle this anymore. My dh and I have had our ups and downs but I've got to the point where I just can't see it getting any better. We've been married for nine years, together for twelve, and we have two young children aged 2 and 5. We seem to bounce from one big fall out to the next with only a bit of niceness in between.

For background info about a year ago I gave him a bit of a kick up the arse, basically telling him he needed to up his game with the kids and around the house, and also earn more money, because we couldn't go on the way we were. I'd put off that conversation for years, as while the kids were tiny I was only earning £5k so I felt I couldn't really say anything, but my earnings have gone up now and I'd had enough. I told him that financially I would be better off without him, which with tax credits is true.

We live in a tiny house and we rarely have any spare money for anything. I've spent the last five years constantly cutting back, but costs just keep going up. In all honesty he has made more of an effort, the house stuff is a bit more evenly split and he seems to be working harder, although I haven't seen any extra money yet (he runs his own business).

On the one hand I do love him and when we're getting on I still fancy him, and we have lots of stuff in common (as well as lots of stuff we don't agree on). But I can't live the rest of my life like this.

This latest row came about because he wanted sex after I came in from an evening out and I turned him down. I really didn't want to make him feel bad, but when I've been out for a meal and a drink I just want to come in, have a cup of tea and then go to sleep. He knows this and he could proposition me any other night of the week when I've actually got some energy left but he doesn't.

So I accused him of setting me up to have to either turn him down or just go along with it. I'd told him before I went out that I wouldn't be up for it but he still tried it on. So then he was angry that I rejected him when our sex life isn't great.

Then he said that I'd been short with him for weeks and I always have an edge in my voice when I ask him about stuff e.g. when I can use the car, when he can do the school run etc. Sometimes I am short with him, especially when it's his morning to get up with the kids and he doesn't (I work part time, he works full time). But I'm really conscious of trying not to take my frustrations out on him and I KNOW I haven't been short with him to the extent he says.

Whatever I say in these rows he always has something else that I've supposedly done but I have no memory of. And between the kids and work I don't always get enough sleep so I end up wondering if I've forgotten the things I've supposedly done.

I know that if I were to break down and cry and say sorry for the way I've behaved then we could move on from this row but I'm just sick of the whole dance and I don't want to play this game anymore. I'm not blameless but I'm not the bitch he makes me out to be.

There's loads more but this is too long already. Why is it such hard work? How can we get our relationship back on track? How does anyone stay married?

You stay married by not getting divorced. I know that sounds flippant, but it's those couples which get through theee times and stick it out, that stay together. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't (that's up to you and you've already acknowledged that there's lots more back story).

I do slightly get the sense that you feel life hasn't worked out for you in the way that you hoped, and if I'm being very honest, the comment about being better off financially without him jarred a bit it says more about the ridiculousness of the welfare system to be honest

In my experience, in order for the relationship to get back on track, somebody needs to capitulate (at least to start the reconcilliation process). As long as it isn't the same person giving ground each time, it's fine. It's the season of goodwill. Surprise him by being really upbeat and making a fuss of him. He should appreciate it.

My wife is at her best when I'm kind to her (and vice versa). It seems like a silly thing to say, but just being kind to one another will turn things around. Try it, you'll be surprised. Not necessairly anything big.

By recognising which of the hard times are becUse you now have two kids, less time and are both knackered and 'emotioned' out because of this, and which are genuine unreconcilable issues.

DH and I have been through similar times in our marriage. Communication, making a little time and space for us to be together when the onus is not on sex but hanging out and having fun, and recognising that the other is working hard too and needs that not to go unnoticed is what gets us through every time. It's not a silver bullet and we sometimes find ourselves on the brink of it again, but we do get better at recognising the triggers and halting the decline in its tracks.

It sounds from your Op that the issues aren't insurmountable...

It sons alike he has an issue with apologising though, and taking responsibility to be accountable. Perhaps preferring to let you do that even though it must damage your relationship. I am guilty with this with Dh, I'll turn things around and make them his issue when I KNOW they are mine. It's down to a lack of self esteem and being scared of being wrong and vulnerable. I've addressed it a lot and these days it's minimal, but it took hard work and Dh was very patient...but I think he knew I was trying my damnedest to make it different...

Not much to add to the above advice but re the finances, just be wary of putting pressure on him as it may well be out if his control - if he runs his own business it's probably quite stressful with things as they are given the whole financial crisis thing. It might be that he is already very stressed & feeling helpless about it.

In our house our incomes have both effectively dropped due to lack of pay rises bigger than inflation, which coupled with increases in living costs is a massive source of stress & anxiety to me at least, & I know we are relatively well off so I understand how it must be a big issue for lots of people. Just keep talking, make time for each other (easy to say I know!) & be kind to each other.

Best of luck op.

You sound very fed up with the state of your life at the moment and it looks like you're taking out that frustration on him. Demanding that he earn more money sounds very harsh, particularly when you only work PT yourself. How do you expect him to do that exactly?

I can't see that he's doing anything particularly terrible TBH. Sounds like you need to sit down together and have a proper, calm discussion about where you are now, where you want to be and how best to get there.

Thanks all - it's good to know others have struggled and managed to get things back on track.

Attack - you're right, he doesn't really do apologising. That would be my job. Interesting that you link it to low self esteem though - could you explain more? I find as my self esteem increases through working more, I'm less inclined to apologise for my many faults.

Plodding and Squitten - I was wary of putting pressure on him to earn more money but I really didn't demand it. It was more that I said this wasn't the life I wanted for our family and I didn't think he wanted this life either, where we have no hope of moving to a bigger house, taking holidays or providing anything other than the basics for our kids. We don't even really manage that as their grandparents buy them clothes.

We're both self-employed in similar sectors and I now earn about the same as him in half the hours. Both our industries are doing well and the recession is behind us. I'm earning more simply because I've worked harder to win clients. Of course it's more complicated than that, and of course there is some luck involved, but the simple fact is that the work is out there and if he did more to win it we would be better off.

I expect my income to outstrip his by the middle of next year unless he pulls his finger out. It's frustrating because I feel like if we ever want to move house then it's down to me to make it happen and that's a lot of pressure.

I don't want to work more hours until my youngest starts school. My mum worked full time from when I was three-months-old and I want to be around more for my children. It would be pointless for me to work more anyway as I'd be handing any extra money straight to a nursery. We agreed years ago that I would work less hours than dh and look after the kids.

Sorry, that's really long too - it's good to get it off my chest!

If you're both self employed in similar sectors is there any chance that you (and he) could pool your resources and strengths so that both businesses do better?

it all sounds a bit YOU vs HIM. Sometimes it's important to be reminded that you are both actually on the same team.

I don't like him not apologising though.

Teeny

Even for the more well off (financialy) of us things are a struggle.
I'm the sole earner in our house and my pay rises have not covered the increased expenditure from our general bills.
They say the recession is over and things are getting better, not for the average home owner they 'aint!
There is a whole lot more to life than having a bigger house and a bigger income, I learnt this after I lost my mother three years ago. My priorities changed. Now I'm probably a better husband and father but a crap employee.

You will get through this, you are both working with a house and two young 'uns to look after. It is bloody hard work.

Good news is, it does get easier the more independant your children get.

Stop putting pressure on yourself and your family and enjoy what you have. Your time will come.

Very very well said Andy.

What's the main issue? Lack of money? Lack of effort on his part?

Re the sex thing - you say "I accused him" The natural response to an accusation, even a founded one, is to defend and deny. So rather than being a discussion it ends up being a fight.

It might be worth setting some time aside to sit down and have a calm discussion. It sounds silly but you could use an object like a hairbrush as a talking stick. Only the person holding the stick can talk. Agree at the start not to accuse but to say "when you do this it makes me feel..." and agree to properly listen to one another. If one person starts shouting or interrupting the discussion must end. Try again at another time. Be honest but kind.

Someone else up thread mentioned being kind to each other. I would agree with that.

You could either both agree to be kind. Or you could make an effort to be kind and see if it rubs off!

By kind I mean seemingly little things like offering to make a drink, or acknowledging that you partner has made an effort, or is tired. Saying thank you is important too. But you have to mean it (or sound as though you do). This works wonders with my DH, and he's much more likely to be kind back.

I agree wholeheartedly with those who say being kind to each other is very, very important. Cut each other some slack rather than point scoring and picking up on what each other hasn't done, like you would with a friend. E.g. be more likely to offer to take his turn at the washing up than to tell him to do it. This only works if you're both pulling your weight, obviously.

Telling him he has to earn more money and that you'd be financially better off without him was nasty, frankly (and I'm not saying he's not been equally nasty - maybe he has). It makes him sound like his only value to you is as a money maker. Maybe you're just better at your job than he is? Maybe he'd be better off being the one working p/t and taking on more house stuff and childcare? If you genuinely feel he is being lazy, that's another matter.

Teeny - been there, done that and we don't work well together.

Andy - sorry for your loss and thanks for the words of encouragement. I hope I'm not coming across as so self-centred I don't know that others are struggling too. I'm certainly not after a bigger house for the status and I totally agree there are more important things in life.

My dh's work involves a lot of kit and we're tripping over it 24/7. This morning I had to move two massive (as in the size of a person) heavy bags out of the way just to get some socks and pants out of my son's wardrobe. We have no storage space and the constant stuff everywhere drives you insane. I'll concede that it is a first world problem though.

The main issue? That's a tough one. It's partly money, in that I thought once I was earning more things would be better, but they're not.

I think one of the issues is that it feels like if I challenge him on anything (like the evening out sex thing) then he will immediately come back with a load of other stuff I've supposedly done. I didn't start the sex discussion - I was going to just let it go as a misguided mistake on his part - but he was gunning for a fight...

ElizabethBathory - the comment about being better off without him was supposed to be a wakeup call and not said to be nasty. At the time he was doing almost nothing around the house, his business was making a loss and he was spending money we didn't have. The comment worked at the time but it feels like he's gradually sinking back into old habits now. He's not lazy - he works hard - but he could do more. For example, he wastes a lot of time planning things and talking about things which he never actually implements.

Being kind to each other is it really. I assume most of us didn't marry horrible men and aren't nasty people themselves, but life can be really tough and we forget the things we love about our partners along the way.

One thing I like to do if I catch myself being particularly tetchy, no matter if I have every reason to be, is to say to hubby, 'you know I love you? I feel really crappy and one of your hugs will make me feel better'. That's it. No matter what life throws at you, it's remembering, acknowledging and praising your partners for all the qualities you love, just so the bad doesn't overpower the good.

Is there any reason why he couldn't cut back his hours and look after the children, and you expand your business and earn more? Why, apart from tradition and prejudice, does he have to be the breadwinner and you the main carer?

Your business is doing better than his - which may be, as you seem to suggest, because you are better at it than he is. So use what you've got.

He may well need to adjust further to the realities of raising children and how much they impact on your time and money. It's not a life for dreamers, that's for sure. But there's no reason why his input necessarily has to be mainly financial, and long as it's an appropriate and committed input.

How do you stay married? By not getting divorced, by being kind to your partner and thinking about what is best for your children - do you really want to be packing them off between you for the next 15 years? My weekend / your weekend etc.

You don't always get what you want / expect in marriage, like anything else in life. I did not expect to be working full-time or to only have one child, but there are advantages to both and I've found life much better when I have looked for the good things about my situation and stopped holding someone else responsible.

If you are good at your business maybe you should work more and he can be the primary caregiver.

Hmm, being kind just keeps cropping up, doesn't it?! Lord knows I try but sometimes he makes it bloody difficult.

Just tried to have a chat about getting our sex life back on track and I managed to get a really friendly, reasonable discussion going which he then killed because he just has to lay all the blame at my door. Argh!

FastLoris he does look after the children when I need him to and we certainly don't have traditional roles (e.g. he washes up). He doesn't want to work part time though (it's not really possible as he needs to be available for his clients 9-5 whereas I can work whenever).

In what way did he blame you for the problems in your sex life?