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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Moving on from emotional affair?

35 replies

GeeinItLaldy · 06/12/2013 11:50

Namechanger as some of my posts under my regular name could identify me. Apologies in advance if this becomes an epic post and if it lacks structure.

I desperately need to talk about this but I have no-one IRL that I can turn to at the moment with this particular problem.

DP and I have been having problems for sometime. We’ve been together for 16 years, 1 DC (18 months old). Problems have mainly been lack of communication and intimacy in the relationship going back several years. However, on the surface of it we usually rub along ok and onlookers would probably say our relationship is solid…but it’s far from it.

I think DP and I both buried our heads in the sand a bit and refused to acknowledge the extent of the problems, hoping that one day it would just magically get better by itself but, of course, it has just deteriorated further and further.

A year ago (almost exactly), DP became emotionally involved with a work colleague. I was fairly sure it was happening at the time but I was engrossed in my own struggles at the time (mainly the shell shock of motherhood – I’m not a natural at it by any means) and for a variety of reasons, I didn’t confront him about it at the time. Primarily, I didn’t want it to be true. Until this, DP has been the most trustworthy straightforward bloke I have ever known. And I also knew that the OW would be leaving to return to her home country at Xmas (she was always destined to be in the UK for a set time and would have no reason to return to DP’s office as she was moving to another division based in another country).

I suppose with my suspicions about the OW, I withdrew even more from DP and he was also retreating from me for his own reasons and so the distance that already existed between us increased.

It came to a head about 4 weeks ago with DP announcing that he wanted to leave. His reasons were that he was dissatisfied with our relationship, our home, his job, me and just everything in general, apparently, and that he wanted more out of life than our humdrum existence. We talked more that night than we have in years. He didn’t volunteer the information about the emotional affair – I had to ask him outright about it but he admitted it as soon as I did. My reaction surprised me. I always assumed that if any partner of mine was unfaithful, I’d sling them out quick smart. However, my immediate reaction was panic. I don’t want to bring up my DC alone. I want DC to have a solid family. And more than that, I want my DP and the relationship we used to have back.

I made him tell me about the affair. He swears they never had sex and I believe him but the emotional involvement bothers me more than if his motivation had been purely sexual anyway so that’s neither here nor there as far as I’m concerned. I think in his head at the time he convinced himself that if there was no sex, it wasn’t really an affair and he wasn’t really doing anything wrong but he knows now that emotional infidelity is just as bad, if not worse. He says that she supported him through some difficult work issues (and I know he was going through work stresses at the time and possibly he didn’t want to burden me with the full extent of them due as he thought I’d enough on my plate with the baby) and, in turn, he supported her with some family relationship issues. They grew closer and he confided our relationship problems in her – which is more than he ever has done with me, I might add. They apparently agreed that they should be ‘just friends’ and then she left to return home. Their contact continued intensively for a few months (I have evidence). OW began a new relationship with someone in June of this year but DP is still in contact with her as ‘just friends’.

DP reckons he had some quite serious mental health issues in the early part of this year, including some suicide ideation (which he says he would never have acted upon but the thoughts occupied his head for a while). He didn’t seek medical help but disclosed some if it to the OW and some to another (male colleague) and his sister and he feels he got enough support from them to move on. Never a word about it to me, though.

On the night of the confrontation and after hours of talking and anguish, we agreed that we actually wanted the same thing – to stay together and build our relationship back up again. I suggested relationship counselling and he readily agreed. We had an initial assessment appointment with Relate a few days later which we both found to be very helpful and we are now on the waiting list to begin regular sessions but it could be February before they can see us again which at the moment feels like far too long. I am worried about the damage we might inadvertently do in the meantime while we try to stumble long in the darkness trying to find a way through this mess. I have also suggested that DP have some individual counselling to address some of the other issues that were affecting his MH and he seems receptive to the idea.

All sounds positive, right? Wrong. There is one major stumbling block….his ongoing contact with OW. He maintains that they are ‘just friends’ and that the majority of their contact is about work issues (moaning about colleagues and issues relating to the company) but I have no way of verifying this. He is adamant that she is no threat to us but that he needs her as his outlet for his work frustrations because she understands the environment and culture in a way that I don’t. I can’t argue with that and I have to accept that there is always the chance that their paths will cross professionally anyway but I am, understandably, unhappy with any level of ongoing contact beyond what is absolutely necessary for his work. He understands that he cannot discuss any aspect of our relationship with her and that if there is any part of their conversations that he’d be unhappy for me to overhear then it’s inappropriate and outside the purely ‘friends’ boundary.

Yesterday, he landed another bombshell on me. OW is visiting our home city next weekend, apparently to visit friends and show her sister around but she has asked to meet DP for coffee and he wants to see her, feels that he has to as that’s what a friend would do and that he needs to for ‘closure’. When I asked him what he meant by ‘closure’, he said to confirm face-to-face that they can only ever be ‘friends’. My opinion is that closure can only be cutting contact but he disagrees.

My gut instinct is that we can never properly move forward while she’s hanging around in the background, casting a shadow over our relationship, even if they can maintain their friendship on the right side of the platonic boundary. The expert opinion and research seems to support my instincts. I’ve been reading the Shirley Glass book Not Just Friends which has been very enlightening about healing relationships post affair. I cannot make him cut contact but I am going to ask him to read the book before he meets her to see if it can help him to see the potential harm in continuing contact. I guess my biggest concern is that his need to maintain contact seems so strong that it’s making me question his commitment to doing whatever it takes to rebuild our relationship.

And now that I’ve written all of that, I’m not sure why it is I’m posting. Although writing it down feels helpful in itself as my head is so full of it that getting it down on paper (so to speak) feels like it has cleared a little bit of space.

Cake for anyone who managed to get this far :)

OP posts:
GeeinItLaldy · 06/12/2013 11:53

Namechange fail Blush.

Fuck it. Don't care if it does out me at this stage.

OP posts:
LoganMummy · 06/12/2013 11:58

I am not an expert in any way but unless he cuts contact with her I don't think you'll be able to move on. I think the counseling will help him realise this but can you wait until then?

Kaluki · 06/12/2013 11:59

I think you have been treated pretty shabbily and he needs to take responsibility for that.
You were at your most vulnerable with a new baby and instead of being there to support you he turned to someone else. You were never given the chance to support him through his MH issues, he gave that job to her, not you, his wife.
Of course he should cut all ties with her. Who is more important? Her or you? Just because they didn't have sex, they still crossed the line and he knows that.
He should get his head out of his arse and treat you with a bit more respect. Sure he has issues and life with a baby is a bit humdrum but he has handled the whole situation really badly and now he should be making amends, not carrying on this 'friendship' at the expense of his marriage.
Don't let him carry on treating you like this. Stand up for yourself, you haven't done anything wrong here.
Good luck Thanks

CogitoErgoSometimes · 06/12/2013 12:01

This is primarily about what will make you comfortable enough to keep the relationship going and start trusting him again. If that's zero contact with the OW then that's your line in the sand. By trying to redraw the line the way he is doing, he is not treating your feelings with respect or showing the required commitment. He was secretive, deceptive and was ready to leave you and DC for this woman. They can never be just friends.

Personally I think he's taking the piss and is making the assumption.... as a lot of forgiven cheats do.... that, once the dust settles, he can just carry on as normal. I think, in his eyes, you are not important enough to change behaviour for. I think, in his eyes, he just sees you as this forgiving, undemanding creature that can be fobbed off.

Time to get tough and start flexing some muscle. Might mean you have to ask him to leave and face your fears of a life solo head-on. But it may the only way you can regain your self-respect. There's no respect coming from him.

sparklysilversequins · 06/12/2013 12:02

I think he is trying to clear the decks and make this a full blown relationship with her. Maybe he thought you wouldn't be that bothered but now you've spoken sees that you will be so can't leave as easily as he thought.

If he wanted to make things work with you he would cut her off. I think you will find that this "friendship" will become a full relationship, probably quite soon.

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism · 06/12/2013 12:02

He is behaving like a shit.

I would tell him if he continues contact with her then you and he are over. You don't have to share.

Jan45 · 06/12/2013 12:16

Sorry but if he was actually truly sorry for doing the most shitiest thing to a partner it would not even occur to him to consider meeting her. He also doesn't seem to display much regret at having went behind your back and effectively had an affair, sexual or not, it's still an affair.

I think you're being far too forgiving and I wouldn't be surprised if the affair was still going on or will indeed pick up again, esp when you as his wife seem to be fairly agreeable.

It shouldn't be him calling any shots at this stage, it should all be you and he should be agreeing with you in the hope that you will carry on with him, it's all sounding very one sided.

GeeinItLaldy · 06/12/2013 12:17

A full on relationship with OW is really not on the cards. She lives several thousand miles away and he would never leave DC.

I did put it to him that if she was still in close geographic proximity then he would have left me already which he denies, of course. But I can't believe him, can I.

Non contact with her is my line in the sand and I need to make that position clear to him more strongly. I was hoping the counselling would get him to that conclusion himself but I don't think we have the luxury of time for that to happen.

OP posts:
Jan45 · 06/12/2013 12:18

Again, it's all you, what is he actually doing to help you get over the fact he had an affair, not much by the sounds of it.

sparklysilversequins · 06/12/2013 12:19

You are looking at it rationally OP. He is not. Please do not underestimate how cold and uncaring a previously good husband and father can become when their affections are elsewhere. I agree you cannot trust anything he says.

akawisey · 06/12/2013 12:41

Well, counselling hasn't done anything to improve his sense of entitlement, has it?

GeeinItLaldy · 06/12/2013 12:43

He hasn't had any counselling yet. We're waiting for An appointment.

OP posts:
akawisey · 06/12/2013 12:43

Actually instead of giving him the Glass book to read, why not just give to him where the sun don't shine .

GeeinItLaldy · 06/12/2013 12:46

I w

OP posts:
GeeinItLaldy · 06/12/2013 12:46

I would but its on my kindle and I'm really quite attached to it :)

OP posts:
Anniegetyourgun · 06/12/2013 12:58

I'm kind of totally gobsmacked at his seeming belief that this meeting is in the least bit reasonable. What next? Closure sex? "Well you see it was like this dear, I would always feel there was unfinished business with her. But now we've shagged, the business is no longer unfinished, don't you see?"

Er no, I don't Confused

OK, maybe that isn't what he expects to happen. Maybe. But also why he expects a fond farewell in person would make him feel any better about giving her up is a mystery. The sooner he goes cold turkey the sooner he can start recovering.

The most important question, of course, is why his perceived need for "closure" outweighs his wife's very natural unhappiness about the whole business. Is he the only real feeling human being in this scenario?

GeeinItLaldy · 06/12/2013 13:02

Thanks folks. You've given me the perspective and resolve I was looking for.

OP posts:
janinlondon · 06/12/2013 13:07

I hope this isn't too harsh, and sorry if it is, but is it not really quite likely that the reason it all came to a head and he told you he wanted to leave was because four weeks ago she told him she was coming on this visit? And that she either wouldn't meet him or was unsure about meeting him as he was still with you? I think she gave him an ultimatum. And now he's playing his cards carefully to be sure he can have his cake and eat it, if he cant convince her to continue the relationship? (distance really isn't a barrier to an emotional affair)

Leavenheath · 06/12/2013 13:16

One of the biggest lies and elephants in the room on this one is that this woman was ever a 'friend'.

She never was and never will be.

This term 'friendship' has been used to describe two people who wanted a sexual, intimate romantic relationship.

That's not friendship. It's not even an old friendship that turned into something else. It's just a same-old story about two work colleagues who by dint of proximity fancied each other and pretended they were 'friends'.

I'd be very dubious about his claims that this was never a physical relationship anyway but even going on what he's admitted, your relationship simply cannot continue if he stays in contact with a woman he had any sort of affair with.

Can I ask why you want to stay with him and whether you'd still want to if you didn't have ties that bind?

Would you stay with a bloke who did this to you when you were incapacitated for any other reason than pregnancy or childbirth? Like a broken leg or something?

I understand why people make a go of these things after an affair, but the only ones I know who've made it are couples who would have stayed together even if if they'd had no kids and no properties/commitments. Don't know anyone whose relationship has recovered when there's been continued contact with the OW or OM.

Leavenheath · 06/12/2013 13:18

And yes, I agree that the reason he wanted to leave was because he knew she was coming over to see him and things could start up again.

GeeinItLaldy · 06/12/2013 13:27

Not harsh at all jan. I don't think it's the case as I think there are other others that brought it to a tipping point when it did. But, meh, the last month has shown me that I don't know very much at all anymore.

OP posts:
Wonderwomanssister · 06/12/2013 13:28

Until he chooses not to see her and chooses not to be in contact you will not be able to rekindle your relationship in the way that you both say you want to. He's still emotionally attached to her and will continue to be until he goes no contact. And even if he does go NC it will take him a while to 'get over' her - which will be a v painful thing for you to go through as well. Bottom line is, he needs to prioritise you and go NC with her. He's a deluded fool and being so disrespectful to you in planning to see her.

pausingforbreath · 06/12/2013 13:57

When Dh came clean about his affair with a work colleague ; it was the emotional involvement , far more than the sexual involvement that made me feel his betrayal. Knowing he had feelings for the OW.

Until one of them found another job , they couldn't go no contact. Then they did ( have ).

I explained to Dh for me it wasn't the floor space they shared - it was the space that she took up in his head that concerned me most.

To say 'closure ' is just the same as 'unfinished buisness'.
Time he realised that this 'friendship' needs to totally stop , no contact . The only reason for not stopping it; is because he wants to carry on damaging his marriage.

So what for their shared support - I'm sure ow has friends and he can learn to communicate with you again.

Good luck.

GeeinItLaldy · 06/12/2013 14:11

Thank you for sharing your experience, pausing.

You've all just confirmed what I already know.

My initial panic reaction to being alone with DC has subsided somewhat and although its not what I want, I'm prepared to face the future without DP if that's what it takes. A PP asked if I'd stay if it weren't for the ties that bind and I would stay if I could be assured of getting my old DP back - the one I could trust - but I'm not prepared to share. If he can't choose me then he can fuck off.

OP posts:
Leavenheath · 06/12/2013 15:35

It's interesting that you describe this as a choice of his between two women.

Why don't you start seeing this as a choice of yours?

Strip this back to the bare bones and what you're dealing with is a bloke who had the raging hots for a woman at work and started an affair with her when his partner was preoccupied with giving birth and coping with a new baby.

He pulled away from you to let this affair happen and even when by circumstance rather than choice he couldn't see the OW every day, he kept the affair going and failed to tell you about it. Finally after a year or so of sabotaging his relationship and engineering your own detachment from it, OW says she's coming back and he tells you he's leaving you, having finished his hatchet job of rendering his own relationship 'dissatisfactory and humdrum'.

Forget all the blah about friendship, needing a business colleague to understand the work, your own behaviour (that was engineered by him in the first place) because it's irrelevant flannel.

The bare bones of this is this is just another workplace affair he indulged in when you were at your most vulnerable, an affair that he still wants to continue.

Make your choice based on those facts.

Take his away from him.

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