(ANOTHER) DM Rant!

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I just need to let this out! Struggling to go NC with her, I don't think I could but I'm steaming. This is just a moan as I know I'm perpetuating it by doing nothing about it.

Just picked my DS up from my DMs house. And she's bought him a toy that I have said consistently over the past few years that he can't have. She buys him a cheap one every couple of weeks (which causes trouble) but this is a big expensive whopper. And right before Xmas, for no reason.

I've just had to literally bare my teeth at him to get him out of her house and he's cried all the way home.

She had a pop at him for crying over it (he was crying because I wouldn't let him bring it home) and flounced, saying how upset she is that he didn't keep to the deal (that they made, even though I said he's definitely not to have this toy). He's 6 FFS!

Why does my mother feel it's OK to undermine me at every turn. No sorry. No anything. She say's 'well he said he was allowed it...' and 'I did tell him you'd go mad...' She knows full well my thoughts on this as we've had the same conversation about 40 times before. Arrrgh! JUST FUCKING SAY NO, MOTHER! I could cry.

Going NC is not a decision that is ever taken lightly and not one without its attendant FOG - fear, obligation and guilt in tow.

Does your son really have to see his grandmother at all given her behaviours towards you and by turn your child now?.

She is never going to listen to you and she is never going to be the nice and kind person as a mother you so perhaps still want her to be. She will never give you the approval you want and it is actually ok not to want to seek her approval any more.

A mistake people make here in going no contact or trying to is to still allow the children to see the grandparent/s in question. If she was not a good, caring and kindly mother to you she is certainly not now going to morph into a kind and caring grandparent; toxic parents make for being toxic grandparents. You have seen that all too clearly today in how she rounded very quickly on your son. (I just knew she would start on your son before I got to that part as well).

The next step re NC is the painful - but ultimately liberating one - of finally giving up the dream, the fantasy, that you'll ever have a proper mother. I think the biggest thing that keeps people enmeshed in this dysfunctional and damaging relationship is the hope that one day she'll change.

The reality is that she won't. If she's truly Narcissistic, she won't

If she is too difficult for you to deal with, she is certainly too difficult for your son to have any form of contact with.

I'm afraid that if someone pulled that trick on me, I'd give it to charity and then be damned sure to tell my mother plain outright.

I'd also explain to my son that I'd told her that he can't have it, and why, and that it was not right of her to give it him.

I'd also ask if it was true that he'd said to her that he can have it. Because either he lied or she lied. If he didnt lie she put the blame on him and that is a very nasty trick. It may look small, but it's not. If he lied, he'd get a stern lecture and most of all, he'd learn that he cannot manipulate people into getting him what he wants against Mummy's express decision.

If he then realises that Gran lied - I'm sorry, but that is the way it has to be. Allowing her to play games and deceive does him no good in the long run except teach him that it's ok to do that, or else not teach him to to detect manipulation.

The only way to deal with game-playing manipulators is to call them on it, plainly

Thanks for the replies - a four hour phonecall from DM and DSD last night meant I just went straight to bed afterwards.

My eldest DS already (14) knows how my DM is. Even he said to me last night, 'She knows he's not allowed to have them, you must be really hacked off...'. It's common knowledge.

So last night came the guilt trip - 'There's something wrong with me, I just don't think like you...' followed by the tears and proclamations of uselessness and then ending with extreme statements such as 'I'll never pick him up from school again/take him to the shops again/lift a finger for you again because I always get it wrong...'. When I asked, instead of getting upset and making extreme statements if she was going to say sorry, she did but then started crying. She hates saying sorry because she never believes anything is truly her fault.

The school thing (briefly) is that she knows I don't encourage DS to hit back if someone hits him, but she does. So a few days ago, he whopped someone the day after she'd been telling him to. Teacher said the other child had been winding him up all week and pretty much let him off (other child had to write DS an apology!) but did tell him it was wrong to hit. He 'snitched' on DM and told teacher that nan told him to hit back. Now she's upset saying that he got her into trouble, and doesn't want to face the teachers, even though they aren't bothered.

She's so much a part of our lives, I just can't imagine going NC, but equally as much, I know that all the future holds is arguments like this. It wears you down.

(It looks like I'm proud of the other child writing the spology, reading that back...Quite the opposite.)

You actually listened to a 4 hour phone call!. Why did you engage with any of it?.

I would think you are deep in FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) with regards to your mother and she has trained you well to put your own self and interests last. Her legacy is indeed very damaging.

Why can you not imagine going no contact?. Is the thought too frightening for you to actually contemplate seriously?. She ever told you that you cannot manage without her?. Your 14 year old is very perceptive. It is one of your many roles to protect them from such malign influences because such people do try to influence the children against their own parent.

It is not your fault that she is not and never will be the nice and kind person you so desperately want her to be; you need to let go of the fantasy that she will change for the better.

You and by turn your sons need to completely disengage from your mother; all she is now doing is dragging you all down with her.

The biggest mistake I have ever made in my life and there have been plenty! was to allow my NPD mother into my childrens lives. She has totally poisoned one of them against me to the point where I think the damage done is irreparable.

I am NC but can never undo what has been done. Luckily one of my DC can see right through "Toxic Gran" but the other is severely enmeshed.

Please do not underestimate the harm your mother can do and will do to your relationship with your DC.

hi i'm just 'listening in' here. my mother is NPD (i say is rather than has because it is actually who and what she is rather than a condition on the side - it goes to the core) and i've been non contact for a couple of months now but that's been made easy by my parents being away for the last month.

i totally get the feeling you can't stop your child seeing them and how hard it is to make that break and the fear of being the bad guy who it will all get turned around onto if you - there's more confusing feelings and fears that i haven't untangled yet.

anyway i just wanted to say hi and you're not alone and let you know i'm listening in. it is helpful to read other people's experiences with people like this and what the long term effects have been on the children.

She is emotionally abusing your DS. All of that 'telling on her', 'we made a deal' stuff. She's manipulating him.

She's making him pick sides - you or her, and she's guilt-tripping him, so he'll have to pick her or she'll be 'upset'.

Please focus on him. Try to explain to him that none of this is his fault.

Lesson learned. Don't spen more than 10 mins on the phone. Set an alarm or pretend to ring yourself.

Your boundaries are correct, she is trying to undermine them.

Don't let her.

Get rid of the 'gift', tell her to back off with the childcare and trust your instincts.

Don't expect her to change, or apologise. She won't. You don't have to put up with this.