Elderly parents- visiting them and arrrgh!

[Varigatedivy]

I just need to offload and ask if anyone can sympathise?

I've been to see my parents aged late 80s who are in relatively good health for their ages though not without some health issues. They live 300 miles away and because I still work p/t I only see them every 2-3 months and they are too old to travel to me.

I find the whole visit very stressful. My parents almost divorced 15 years ago because my mum was sick of my dad being chauvinistic and selfish, and above all, reclusive and anti social. He's got no better and although they live under the same small roof, they live separate lives. Mum has lots of friends , is often out with them and he spends the entire day in the garden or garden shed, then comes in to the house at 6pm and spends the rest of the evening in the kitchen where he reads, listens to the radio and makes his own dinner. They don't sleep together and haven't shared a bedroom or bed for over 20 years ( due to his snoring supposedly.)

When I stay, nothing changes. we don't have a family meal ever. Most days she has a snack and I have to cook for myself. We all end up eating at different times. He sits in one room and she sits in another watching TV or reading. I have to divide my time between each of them. If I sit with him , she paces up and down the hall trying to eavesdrop. If I don't sit with her she feels ignored. If I sit in the lounge he will never, ever come and join me. This is on the pretext of the TV always being on ( it isn't ) and him not 'doing TV' - he likes to make a big thing/ virtue out of never watching TV.

If they meet in the same room for chit-chat they start arguing within minutes- usually she is contradicting him over nothing important.

After 3 days I am left almost climbing the walls trying to flit between each of them in a tiny 1 storey house.

I'd love to spend longer with them but the strain of being under one roof when they are couple, not 'not a couple' IYSWIM is really testing.

I don't know why I'm posting other than to let off steam and wonder if there is anything I should do or say - but I suppose I feel it's their life and I'm just the visitor.

Varig I am glad you have off-loaded this because it sounds awful for you and yes you can have total sympathy from me because my parents were extremely similar (were because my mum died this year).

They never did anything together that I recall since I was 14 ish and we had some days out, other than that the only place they went together was a family funeral or the occasional wedding and then they wouldn't sit together. My dad spent most of his time in garden and they would mostly sit in separate rooms. The sleeping situation was exactly as your parents with same excuse.

I just feel that although you are an adult you are still their child and it's terrible that you are put through this. Do they talk about the situation to you, talk about each other? (MY mum was constantly going on about my dad and their rows and the things he did to annoy her)

The only thing that comes to mind to suggest to you is that if they are clearly choosing to live separate lives then they should be prepared to make your visit easier and shouldn't be giving you a hard time about you sitting with the other parent. You should be able to enjoy what time you have got with both of them. Do you feel able to broach this with them to get it 'out in the open' about how tricky it is for you?

I wish you all the best and I can honestly say I know something of how this must make you feel.

I'm sorry about your mum, sicily.

How's your dad been since she died? Does he show any sign of missing her?

Thank you so much for your kindness Imperial - my goodness when my mum was dying (quite suddenly, she was only ill for a week and in hosp 2 days) my dad was distraught, as if he had lost the love of his life, which I'm sure she once was. It's just that as far as I remember this didn't materialise much.

He has cried many times in the last 9 months whilst I've visited and I'm sure when he's been alone. He is probably regretting being so awful to her.

I think there were a lot of marriages like that, tbh, where people lived fairly separate lives and moaned about each other, but were shocked and upset when they died. I suppose there was less risk of divorce so the threat of being left wasn't there and also a lot of people didn't expect a soul mate in a husband or wife.

That must have been a terrible shock for your mum to go so quickly. My parents are in their mid-late 80s and it's awful to think that between one week and the next one of them would die. It's not that you want them to suffer for a long time either, though, but the shock on top of the loss must be really awful.

Thank you Imperial, you are kind. I hope your parents are keeping well and you get chance to enjoy time with them.

Thos sounds li,e a ,ost horrendous nightmare. Have you ever tried ta
King to them?
Cou
D you ever sit down with them and tell them to listen very carefu
Ly.

Fine I have been doing it yOur way for however long and it is not working. It is doing my head in and is no good for my health AT ALLl and lets face it you are not getting much out of it either.
Now I have a suggestion. We are going to try it my way next time and this is how it is going to be. This is not open to discussion. Then spell out very verynclearly exactly what your expectations of them are.

I wonder if each of your parents has become so entrenched that compromise by either now would be seen as defeat. Living apart together. The comment about your DM pacing the hall when you are talking to your DF is telling I think. It doesnt seem like indifference. There must have been something which pulled them back from the brink 15 years ago. Possibly sheer bloody-mindedness!

Thanks for all the comments.

It's really hard to convey the situation in writing. It's much more subtle than it appears in black and white here. It's very passive-aggressive on my mum's part.

Re. my mum pacing up and down when I talk to my dad. What happens is that she 'busies' herself in a room /hallway nearby then my dad- whispering- says 'she's listening outside, to us'. The same happens when I phone- he used to ask me to call when she was out and withhold my number because she always dials 1471 to see who's called and she'd be huffy if she knew he and I had been talking when she was out of the house. If we speak when she is in, she does the 'hovering' according to him, listening in.

Of course I am not there so only have his word for this.

The basis of all of this is jealousy. My dad has withdrawn emotionally from the marriage, they rarely have a conversation about anything except day to day chores etc, so if he talks to me ( or anyone) she gets jealous.

Their marriage is not my business. I feel my dad is being a complete bastard the way he treats her- there are also incidents of emotional abuse where he belittles her and shouts if she tries to take control of anything financial - she's not allowed to arrange for handymen to come and fix things unless he approves. The reason she wants to do this is because he's going deaf and quite frankly has lost his judgement at times about costs and who to trust to do work in their house. Recently he almost employed a known local con man because he felt sorry for him and felt he needed the work! My brother had to intervene and cancel the appointment- and wait at their house in case the man turned up and threatened them.

Having said all of that my dad has never been anything than a 100% loving dad to me and supported me whenever I've needed it. So I don't want to take sides.

So- my mum is constantly angry with him because he neglects her emotionally- lives like a single bloke but in the same house- and he gets very annoyed about how she fusses over him. Although they have this awful marriage, she is constantly anxious over his health and tries to stop him doing things - like driving.

I don't know what the answer is regarding visiting. They are coming up to late 80s so anything could happen any day so part of me thinks I just suck it up and get on with it.

Your parents clearly loathe each other, and coexist in a way that you could never tolerate. It is completely understandable that this makes you sad.

Equally clearly they have no sense of how horrible it is for you when you are there, or it's just too far gone for them to consider playing 'nice' for you off their own bat. They probably don't consider you as a 'guest' they need to behave well for.

I'm with Nanny - I can't see this is ever going to change and especially your dad isn't going to come and sit with your mum.

What an awful waste of their lives.

well, it's all odd. I don't think they loathe each other- my mum won't come and stay with me now for 2 days, because she says she is too worried to leave my dad on his own in case he sets the place on fire ( that kind of thing) in his absentmindedness. She also nags him constantly about seeing the dr for ailments when like most men he prefers to ignore them.

It's not so much mutual loathing as dad being stubborn and not wanting to 'give in' to do anything that might please her- such as sit in the lounge. I haven't sat in the lounge with him for years- he resides in the kitchen once he's come in from the shed.

They cook their own meals, eat at different times, do their own washing, but they do the garden together.

They give each other a goodnight peck on the cheek but that's it.

They have toned down the bickering- because my brother told them I'd noticed it - and I was at the stage of saying I'd not go and see them- or at least stay in a hotel- if they carried on.

My mum would like nothing more than to have a nice cosy family with us all together for meals etc but my dad won't- so we don't.

I don't think they are going to change now so it's up to me to change - either staying elsewhere or being honest with them about how it feels to be there. But I think my dad would just shrug and say it's my problem, and my mum would be even more upset.

I'd likely give up on trying to have a family meal and just take your mum out for a nice meal one day and cook something at home for your dad another. Better to enjoy them separately than not to enjoy them at all, no?

By-the-by...
You seem to place the blame entirely upon your dad but just in your last two posts you've said she "nags him constantly", is "constantly angry with him" and "tries to stop him doing things". You've also stated she's passive-aggressive and instantly contradicts him in any conversation. It's hardly surprising he's checked out of their marriage and hides away in his shed. I also fully understand the TV thing, I hate the TV being on if you're trying to have a conversation with someone or read.

Thanks for the comments.
I know it looks as if I blame my dad- I don't- it takes 2!
The difference is that my mum clearly wants a close relationship with affection- physical and emotional - and he doesn't need or want this. he was very self reliant as a child- his dad died when he was 8 and my dad had to leave school at 13 and go out to work to earn money even though he was very clever- top 3 in his year across the entire town for 11+. He became his family's breadwinner as the eldest child.
Conversely, my mum had a really close relationship with her parents and brother - and that's her blueprint for a family.
She does smother him- she's over anxious about everything, including me and my life. My dad has shut her out because he can't bear her smothering. When dad worked their differences were less obvious- but once he retired the rot began to set in.

I would actually be very honest with both of them, not about what you think or how you feel (which will get you nowhere), but about what you want when you come to visit. Keep it practical.

They aren't going to sit together with you in a room, you'll still have to shuttle between them. However, you can say that you require each of them to accept that you will be spending time with the other and you expect the one left out not to interfere; you will be taking your mother out to lunch, or you don't want to eat alone all the time but with one of them, you would like your brother to visit too while you are there, or whatever it may be. You could point out that this is the way they choose to live, you are just making the best of it.

I think sometimes in a family when things have gone unspoken for a long time, just the fact of communicating that you aren't keeping schtum any more and will be telling it like you see it can help things to change. If your parents can't rely on your tacit agreement to go along with their weird arrangement, what will happen?

Varigated, I just had to come back to this thread after a really depressing day with my elderly parents (82 and 86). There are parallels between your situation and mine, my mum is also passive-aggressive and smothers dad (and my 54 year-old brother who lives with them, I know weird), but my dad is totally selfish and moans from dawn to dusk. I want to spend time with them (currently visiting once a week as they're only an hour away) but their behaviour is so hard to bear. I think your advice is good Angela (great nickname) and I might well tell them in practical terms how I'd like my visits to be - ie minimal bickering and moaning, TV not on at full blast when we're trying to talk, happy to discuss real problems and help if I can but don't want to be exposed to this in-fighting.

We make excuses for them because they're old but I wonder how far this should go.