Joint counselling just not doing it for me...

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Hi everyone,

After a few years of unhappiness, months of procrastinating and a couple of threads on here, I finally got the guts to tell OH I wanted to separate a few weeks ago.

He was very selfish throughout our marriage, really unsupportive during and after my pregnancy and on many occasions, just an utter arse. Never violent but very moody, absent and also so into porn, our sex life nose dived as soon as we got back off honeymoon.

He didnt react at all well to the split. He has suddenly realised how much he loves me and has seen DD far more then he ever did when we were together.

He persuaded me to go to counselling, which I agreed to do out of guilt really. The last session, he and the counsellor seemed to decide that because I am a strong person, and don't easily ask for help, he wasn't to know I would need support during my pregnancy, the night I went into labour and when we took a newborn home, or at any point during our married life.

To be honest, I am finding the whole thing a crock of shit. But feel like it would be extremely arrogant of me to say I don't need it, if that makes sense?

I am finding it extremely hard to justify to myself and to others why I should end a marriage just because I want to. People keep saying, if you want to enough, you can work anything out. I feel like that makes me lacking in some way and it's ridiculous that I don't want to.

I know I will get as many LTBs here as I want but I just want to know honestly, if I did wake up tomorrow and decide, yes I want my DD to grow up with two parents, can you get back from absolutely zero?

The counsellor seems to think we would each need individual therapy, joint therapy and then a lovely round of sex therapy to top it off. would that actually work?

The counsellor seems to think we would each need individual therapy, joint therapy and then a lovely round of sex therapy to top it off. would that actually work?

Not if you don't love him anymore, no.

I do think it's possible to hold a marriage together 'for the sake of the kids' without there being real love anymore, but I think that you have to be very good friends, able to rub along together happily enough, for that to work.

In my experience, people just assume you haven't worked at it. It's sad because, I did try and make my marriage work, it was H who didn't.
If you can find the strength to say I don't give a s**t what others think and I'm doing what's right by me and DD, then it will be more manageable.
Also if you can really get back from zero, well done you! I couldn't, STBX finally wore me down so much I honestly didn't have the strength.

I say follow your heart...

I think you're probably right noel but I guess you would have to be completely willing to sacrifice your chances of finding happiness with someone else. Maybe that's something your obligated to do with children? This is what I'm struggling with.

Exactly humous for three years i tried very hard, and talked and talked, and he never did anything about it or even tried to treat me with respect and love. And now he has seen the light and wants to try, and it's me who is not doing enough. Suddenly it's me throwing the marriage away. This is what's pissing me off!

I am finding it extremely hard to justify to myself and to others why I should end a marriage just because I want to.

I can understand that feeling of needing to justify yourself. But you can end a marriage because you want to. You don't have to ask permission or justify it to anyone. No one else knows what your marriage is like.

People keep saying, if you want to enough, you can work anything out.

This is nonsense really. It makes people feel better to say it, I suppose, but no, you cannot work everything out. So please don't feel as if you should, if you've had enough now.

A selfish, absent, moody, unsupportive, excessive porn user isn't likely to change personality either, no matter how much counselling you put him through. You want to end it now, anyway, so more counselling is just postponing the inevitable. IMO it's time to stand firm and determinedly make your way out of there.

You are not obligated to go without happiness just because you have had children!
My children will be happier in the long run, because I'm not living in the shadow of a hurtful marriage. I am an example to DCs, I wouldn't want them to stay stuck in a unhappy marriage, so I won't either.

This is such a rough time and you have my sympathies x

This happened to me. Luckily he met someone else and decided he didn't want me back in actual fact. If he hadn't I don't know how long I would have tried to make it work.

He didn't seem selfish and unsupportive when I met him. He was able to convince the relationship counsellor that we were both at fault and it felt to arrogant to say, "actually I'm not, I have been doing everything I can." And he seemed to think as she had said we both had things to work on, he didn't have to do much because he could always throw back "well she said you XYZ!" and still carry on as before.

X post... no, you don't have to sacrifice happiness because you have children. Children know when their parents aren't happy; and they can eventually start to mirror the selfishness and moodiness they see because they think it's normal. :( It's not a good environment to grow up in, truly.

Sounds as though you're flogging a dead horse tbh. This almost always happens when one party won't agree to counselling until it's just too late. I think once the love has gone, it's gone and it doesn't return. Your H will just have to accept that it's just too little too late now.

Why not use the remainder of the sessions to try and separate as amicably as possible?

Yes, but if you don't want to then its all a waste of time and money isn't it?

I think you probably could get back to where you were, if it was good before. I know a couple who have done it. But it takes a lot of work and commitment to get there. I don't suppose anyone knows it if will work, but it might.

I begged XH to go to counselling at one point. He wouldn't hear of it. Then when I had reached, nay, gone several miles past end of tether time, he suddenly decided that couples counselling was just the thing. The counselling was predictably a complete waste of time, except that XH started to behave in front of the counsellor the way he had previously only behaved at home, and seeing her reaction was great validation.

He then got the idea of mediation (this was before it became more or less mandatory, but was still strongly recommended as it looks good in front of the court if you've at least tried it). The mediator was really good, but several years too late. I said I would agree to further sessions if XH was prepared to pay half the cost. He wasn't, so it ended there (well, he did book another session behind my back, but I told them I wasn't going so they cancelled it). I rather think his real objective was to drain the money I would otherwise have been able to spend on a solicitor.

Unless you actually get a chance to vent your rage in therapy or be really explicit in the joint counselling your having about how your ex is attempting to manipulate the situation then no, it won't work.

He's getting away with being a cock again.

You don't need permission to leave this turd but it might be good for you to say why in a counselling session.

The thing is the counsellor said it sounded like a controlling and emotionally abusive relationship. He swears it has all been accidental and unconscious and would do anything, ANYTHING, for another chance.

So she asked what it would take for me? What do I want from marriage? And now I just don't bloody know. I feel like I have stopped believing in marriage but somewhere at the back of my mind wonder if its just anger and would pass.

hummous yes that's what I would like to do to, show DD that life's too short and just grab opportunities and be happy!

wordybird I wish you were here in RL to repeat that to certain judgey family members

some yes that is exactly what I envisage would happen if I did go back

jacey I feel like that is what I want to do, but that I would be giving up when I really ought not. This pressure to do the right thing just weighs so heavy!

I need to snap out of that one somehow

lavendar that's what I mean, it's going to fail just because i don't want to

annie your ex sounds like a total div!

People keep saying, if you want to enough, you can work anything out.

The problem is that two people have to want it. It is love destroying to be the one who wants for years. His apparent change of heart comes too late and seems too little.
If you want to leave a door open, you could give it some time and see if he is able to keep up being this new person. Not that he seems that new. Claiming that he didn't know you needed support, seems just an excuse. Has he apologised for that, even?

I might agree to individual therapy. You may benefit and maybe he can too.
Definitely not to sexual therapy, unless he wants to go to drop the porn habit, figure out why he preferred it to a living loving woman and get some respect for women.

You could tell people something along the lines of:

I've done enough trying for years, my love for him is dead and his efforts now are too little and too late, and feel fake, that he's trying because he's lost his cosy family. There is no going back.

Your counsellor is shit. He/she should know that joint counselling is totally inappropriate in abusive relationships. Marriage isn't a prison sentence. You can walk away.

No.... to directly answer your question. We're talking about fundamental emotion here, not some kind of business agreement. If you simply don't like something, whether it's a husband, opera or brussels sprouts, there's not a damn thing you can do about it. No amount of intellectualising and rationalising will make you feel differently. The only way forward would be to bury your feelings, ignore your dislike and live in an atmosphere of tolerating and suffering in silence. And that would be a massive waste of a life

Suddenly it's me throwing the marriage away. This is what's pissing me off!

I hear you. I felt similar after I gave my STBXH his marching orders. He was so hands on/cheerful in their presence. But never at home. Family etc. took quite some time to come round to the idea of our marriage being over.

What I found angered me most is that everyone said Oh Handywoman you are so brave! [insert tilted head and look of sympathy] which completely acknowledged the utter ball-breaking misery and trampled-on-ness I had endured for years. That really made me angry!

You have your journey and they have theirs (including your H). None of that is for you to take on board. People expect women to take on the woes of relationships, I bed they aren't saying it to your H I bet they are indulging his sadness instead. Very unfair.

Therapists always recommend lots of therapy, surgeons always recommend surgery. Sounds like you have done your emotional work already.

Listen to your heart, OP.

• which failed to acknowledge.

You get my drift I hope.

The counsellor seems to think we would each need individual therapy, joint therapy and then a lovely round of sex therapy to top it off. would that actually work?

First of all, is it a Relate counsellor, because their basic training required to qualify as a counsellor is only a year.

Secondly, is she proposing that she does the individual & joint therapy herself? If so, I'd suspect her motives.

The reasons for which you want to end the marriage are sound OP, it doesn't matter what anyone else says. You did not throw your marriage away, that was your husband by his appalling behaviour. Your husband isn't likely to change anyway, no matter what he says now.

No, it's not a relate counsellor. She's very qualified. When she concluded it had been an emotionally abusive relationship, she quickly added to H "I'm not saying it was intentional". Because that makes it OK I suppose.

That is what I am having difficulty with. He says he didnt realise,me only ever tried his best, but I can't even begin to think about trying again because I just don't believe it was all accidental and done unconsciously. He must have made choices for at least some of it.

I can't move forward unless he tells me why. But then if he admits he did do it on purpose, the. I can't go back to an abusive relationship then either can I.

Also if I could get past the fact he was an arsehole for so long, how will I ever have sex with him again? He destroyed my confidence completely.

Two big mountains to climb. Im pretty sure it shouldn't be this hard three years into a marriage and five years into a relationship.

It's a non starter, why the hell am I having so much trouble just saying it.
I just sometimes think if he did change back into the man I fell inlove with, could I fall for him again.

Thanks for all your reaffirming comments though. It helps.