gaslighting, overthinking, solvable, the end?

[ClaraStahlbaum]

How do you know when it's over?
How do you know if he's really gaslighting, or if you're over thinking things?
How do you know if you can salvage a relationship?

I know if we had no children, I'd have left, or be leaving now. We have children though and where we live, the custody would be 50-50. I can't bear for my baby to not be with me (not breastfeeding for medical reasons, so couldn't use that as an reason to be with me anyway).

I was just wondering how you managed to get past a difficult time, especially if you salvaged your relationship. There is no cheating (I almost wish there was, it would be more black and white) and DH is quite an emotionally stable kind of guy, whereas I'm more emotional.

Oh, and I've been to the dr and she referred me for counselling to help with the stress I have as a direct consequence of the relationship.

Can you talk us through in more detail?

Why do you suspect gaslighting?

Do you think your OH values you and the children? He may not want to split either.

Have you talked to him about your concerns? What was his response?

I've talked to him quite a few times. He doesn't want us to split up. His answer is that we need to tweek little things (that's mainly me doing those things) whereas I think the problem is more fundamental. He point blank refuses any type of therapy. I've done what he asks on several occasions and sometimes I've seen a small improvement, but only sometimes. He won't read anything that I suggest (Relate books) to look more deeply at things.

The typical pattern of an argument (infrequent and started usually by me out of frustration) is deny, deny, deny it, tell me it's not true, I imagined it and then one day turn around at the end of an argument and say that I'm right, but I shouldn't go on about it, it wasn't intentional etc.

He says he's too tired to work on our relationship now, that the circumstances are specific, but there have been "specific circumstances" for the past few years, every time we get into this. I was diagnosed with an auto-immune disease (nothing serious) a couple of years ago and he brings that up. I had a fall recently and it took a few days to be back to normal and he's today said that that's essentially distracted me. In truth NOTHING distracts me from our relationship apart from the birth of our children and some potentially serious pregnancy problems.

I've told him that I don't want to divorce, but I'm petrified that's where we're heading if he doesn't listen. He says I'm emotionally blackmailing him by saying that. Is that emotional blackmail? I'm not trying to manipulate him, I'm genuinely frightened.

Hi Clara, you say that if you didn't have children then you would have left, I feel that this says it all really!

However if you feel that there may be a chance for you both to work at staying together then I would suggest couples counselling. However you mention that you feel that he gaslights (can you expand on this a bit? Some examples would be helpful), if he does then that to me suggests an emotionally abusive person. Couples counselling is not recommended when there are issues with abuse.

I feel that you would benefit greatly in having your own therapy though, at least you would be able to reach a desision as to how you want to move forward.

What ever you decide I wish you good luck and hope that you can find clarity of thought/action.

Ah x posted!

It takes two to work at a relationship.

If you talk to your counsellor and get your OH there at least for some sessions, do you think he'd go? At least you could get an unbiased opinion on the relationship.

I something similar with exH, in that he refused counselling even when the relationship was crashing. He once tore out a letter I wrote trying to put forward my feelings.

So, it doesn't look good from what you say. No wonder you have stress. You have a brick wall in front of you.
Saying that you are heading towards divorce is very honest, if you mean it. It's his choice to act on it or not. It's your choice to stay with a man you are unhappy with or not.

What do you usually argue about? Just small things at home that he denies doing? Or something more fundamental?

Today he said he doesn't know what "emotional support" means. I didn't think it was that complicated and assumed it was something that came as part of a "normal" relationship (that being a wide range). It explains a whole lot.

He eventually suggested that I read the relate books (again) and go through them with him in conversation, because he's too tired to read much. I did offer to do this about three years ago, but he wasn't interested. Now I'm tired myself, but maybe if I have an outlet in my own therapy I could find the energy to do this. His first language isn't English and I understand it's tiring for him to read in it at the end of the day and he probably doesn't have all the feelings-related vocab necessary. It kind of seems a lot for me to take on right now.

The has lighting thing, I'm really not sure if it's that. I had a tough pregnancy and it was both physically and mentally very difficult for me. At one point I was told that "things aren't worse" which he interpreted as meaning I didn't need to worry so much. His mother decided the same. It wasn't strictly true and I was very worried. When I told him he wasn't supporting me at all emotionally and in fact the attitude he and his mother had was upsetting, he point blank denied there was any attitude. After many arguments he eventually admitted that "of course" they weren't taking it so seriously and, essentially, I was being precious.

After we got married, a similar thing happened where he virtually ignored me for 9 months before apologising for taking me for granted.

I was saying these things were happening, he was point blank denying it. Then, no idea why, one day he agrees with me. I don't know if that's just denial or has lighting. Whatever it is, it makes me feel like I'm going crazy.

He's not manipulative, but he is "authoritarian" (his mother's words before we got married). I asked him a number of times to leave me alone this morning in the argument and he said that I "don't get to tell him to leave" (I was in bed with baby so hard to do it myself).

I think I really need this therapy!!