Finding it difficult to get my head round DH shouting at me when I was ill.

[LuciusCornelius]

I'd been ill for 10 days (carrying on as normal as I could) and it was getting worse, thought it was probably flu (when I went to Drs the next day turned out to be flu/chest infection), but I'd gone up to bed at 7pm and slept for 5 hours (really not like me) until DH came up at 12 and I woke up.

I was disorientated and couldn't work out why it said 23.58, and said 'Eh? Have you had dinner (usually have it at 9), why didn't you call me' (I was starving and had been dreaming about it) and he straight away started shouting at me that he didn't know whether he should have left me or disturb me, and couldn't do right for doing wrong.

Despite feeling like crap I was pretty upset that he reacted like that and said as much, it went back and forth for a bit, so I got up and went downstairs.

I was in bed for the next two days and all I got was a couple of texts, not even a call, although tbf I did text him making it clear how fucked off I was at him.

I do see what he's saying, completely, I suppose it was only 5 hours and it was at night, but really, this is so out of character for me that it hurts to think he didn't want to see if I was OK. That instead of gently saying he didn't know what to do, that he chose to start shouting full volume. It makes me out to be some kind of harridan that takes him to task for always getting things wrong, and that's just not true at all (IMO anyway, but then it would be wouldn't it?)

He does ratchet things up very quickly if things aren't going his way, after he's cooled down he admits he does it, is defensive, says crap he doesn't mean. I'm no angel, not by a long shot, but I am able to keep it under control and keep my voice down and not rise to the bait I know so well and that bubbles up so quickly.

Everything's fine until something out of the ordinary happens, it could be me starting work and saying things can't stay the same as I won't have the same free time to do my normal housework things and he'd have to do more, bringing something up that's been bothering me for a while, saying we need to cut back because we're skint, anything really that I know he won't like.

Nobody wants to hear things they don't like, but this is extreme, it's anything that's not 'nice' for him. I'm quite shouty myself and was brought up in a volatile household, but the pattern here is just so obvious. I know from experience it's used as a technique to make the other person think twice, but I don't go along with that because some things have to be said (money, DC etc).

There are other bits to it too but it'd be too much for one thread, but I feel as though I can't rely on him to be there, when the chips are down he just seems to grind them down even further, that it must mean he has so little respect for me that he thinks I'm OK to be shouted at like that when I'm in (what felt like) a vulnerable position.

It happened on Tuesday (I think) and I emailed him today to say why I still can't bring myself to not be fucked off about it and be 'normal' with him. Am I sulking? (which I hate) Or is being angry about something different and sulking is about manipulation? Maybe I am being manipulative? Maybe I'm just having a pity party, but the thought of him shouting at that particular time has brought tears to my eyes every day (and I don't cry easily) and I can't seem to shake it off. Maybe because I'm still getting better?

I. Just. Don't. Know.

I'll probably regret posting and get ripped to shreds, but I'm going to have to take the risk because it's left me feeling insecure and questioning things I don't want to question and I can't seem to resolve it on my own.

Any words of advice would be a huge help.

See, that's the problem with us, strong women. We think we give back as much, and we can control it, and we can handle it.
However, it's when people are vulnerable that we can separate the abusers from the good people.
Good people don't shout at vulnerable people. Abusers do.

Think very carefully if you ever want to be in a position of vulnerability with this man, and how he will react.
You were, or are, if you are not working, and he reacted badly when he felt his control slip and because of you going back to work you told him he'd have to make changes. Did you go back to work?
The same when you told him cuts would have to be done. To his spending?
He thought it was ok to scream at someone who had been ill and had just woken up and was a bit groggy.

There is a grain of truth in him not wanting to lose his skivvy, and I have said it to him in the past and he's agreed with me (after a while), but who can blame him?

Of course he can be blamed. Why should you be a skivvy? I've always worked full time, while exH was at home with incapacity. I've always encouraged him to work and have done my fair share. Good men don't expect a skivvy at home.
You deserve more than that.

If I was put in his position and had to earn much more than I do at the minute to keep us afloat, I would be freaked out too. If his role suddenly changed, maybe I'd be the same?
I doubt it. But I'm not sure what you are saying. That you as a family need more money? That you are forced to go to work and that his role at home has to change? Why do I suspect he does very little at home, because he's the earner?

because I was ill it felt like I wasn't in a position to 'fight back' so to speak, and I didn't like feeling vulnerable and at a disadvantage. Does that say something about the relationship we have? That I normally don't feel disadvantaged and we are on an equal footing?

It says that you don't notice it as much because you are on equal footing, but when you are vulnerable he steps on you. That is the true measure of his character. He knew this time you couldn't and wouldn't fight back.

He perhaps does display bullying behaviour sometimes, but some of my behaviour could be described in an equally damning way. I've been bullied/manipulated a lot in the past so it's something I recognise and will say it if I think it is. He does try to shout me down, but I try not to let it stop me saying the things I think are important.

Does your behaviour precede or follow his behaviour? Do you normally snap at him for little things? Or try to shout him down when he's trying to have a conversation with you?
He may not be like the abusers you have been in the past, but he's not OK either.

I'm self sufficient in the main, but it's those times when I do need him to see that I'm struggling that it can hurt when he doesn't.

And that is the problem. It's when you are vulnerable. Do you ask for his help, or do you try to cover it up?

I should talk to him more, but I don't like talking to anyone at all. It's making me feel very exposed writing this out on here.

Talk about what? Plead that he treats you with more respect? It should be a given. You shouldn't need to keep talking to him about it.

It is a lot more straight in my mind compared to how I was posting last night, and I don't feel angry at him any more.

That is the typical cycle. Then it doesn't seem so bad. In a couple of days you will have forgotten. Until it happens again, but then it's forgotten. But it never stops.

How to sort the shouting thing, I don't know. Me keeping calm/shouting back/not answering doesn't seem to change anything.

Because he wants to. He uses the shouting as a control tool.

You've definitely got the measure of what's on my mind Lweji.

I am working from home and he does pick up the slack, some of the cuts were to his spending, yes.

It is my choice to run the household and he does pull his weight most of the time and will accept with good grace that he's not if I have to prod him. He has never expected anything from me or complained about anything I do, he's been supportive when I wasn't working and did more OU stuff.

It is letting it go and the cycle just carrying on that needs sorting. We have talked about it now and I've said that he can't not know he's doing it now (even though he knew it before), so if he does then he's making a deliberate choice to behave like that (i.e. he can't say he's unaware of doing it/has no control over it). It's the 0-60 with no sign he's going off on one that gets me, I can tell in his voice now a bit that it's coming on, but it's not always there.

He's the only person who makes me feel secure and content, and for me that's a huge huge thing. I haven't got the wool pulled over my eyes when I say he genuinely is a decent person and loves us. We argue perhaps once every 6 months or so and I don't see that as a deal breaker as it stands. I'm not with him for the lack of other options or because I'm scared to be alone, and I don't feel trapped or abused (and I'm aware that people who are trapped/abused don't always see it).

I have my own issues and this is a very small piece in what I'm sure you'll know is a complicated situation (same as everyone else's).

I know I've already said it but I was so worried about posting, and I'm happier now thinking that even though it hasn't resolved the issue long term (as only time will tell), the immediate shit I was in has come round to a better place because of the lovely posters on here.

This sounds exactly like me and my wife. I'm not very good when she's ill. Even though we co-parent (my wife works part-time) It's just not always possible for one person to keep all of the balls in the air. My hat comes off to single parents as I really don't know how they do it!

My wife has recently been ill and was hospitalised (over night) last week. As she deteriorated (ignoring my advice to go to Drs/Hospital) I took on the running of the entire house. I'd been doing it single-handedly for two weeks by then. The thing is, I eventually snapped and shouted at my wife, despite her being unwell. Having to take time off to take her to hospital, collect the kids, do the dinner. laundry etc. etc. - and hold down a stressful full time job, was just too much for me. I ended up taking it out on someone who needed my emotional support. I didn't do it becasue I don't love her, but just becasue I was knackered, stressed and a little bit frightened.

Now I don't know your husband, but you do. You know if he's an out and out &*$! Assuming he isn't, cut him some slack - as you seem to have done. None of us are perfect.

"...I emailed him today to say why I still can't bring myself to not be fucked off about it and be 'normal' with him. Am I sulking? (which I hate)"

Are you sulking? No, you are quite understandably withdrawing emotionally, and taking stock of what is a very unhealthy/unequal/damaging pattern of behaviour. You are also feeling confused about what has happened and are trying to overstate your role in it. In order to 'fix' it. This is what happens in unhealthy relationships. You are trying to justify the unjustifyable, OP. Hence the confusion. I think you should re-instate some boundaries and tell him you won't have any more of it. Ask him to apologise. His reaction will speak volumes.

Good luck and get well OP

I don't think, in this case, Contrarian, it was only about when the OP was ill. It simply highlighted a pattern of behaviour.

OP you are clearly committed to your husband and that's great, but you also need to ensure that you have a voice in the relationship to say that his volatility is unacceptable. You say that you have raised it, but it may require a concerted policy to effect a change his behaviour. (You can't change his behaviour yourself, you can only act as a mirror).

You don't blame your partner for not wanting to lose his housewife, but I think it's a odd attitude, I don't expect anyone to be my housewife & it's only suited to people who really want the role. I can't really understand men's insecurity about woman working either. Surely that would take the pressure off him as the main bread-winner?

It is six to one a lot of the time, but because I was ill it felt like I wasn't in a position to 'fight back' so to speak, and I didn't like feeling vulnerable and at a disadvantage. Does that say something about the relationship we have? That I normally don't feel disadvantaged and we are on an equal footing?

I don't know - this says to me a) you need to 'fight' in this relationship, and b) you may possibly feel at a disadvantage generally - illness exacerbates this to the point that you feel vulnerable. Bullies tend kick people when they are at their weakest, so it may be that you're aware what it may bring out in him. I get the impression that your husband is not someone you feel comfortable feeling exposing your vulnerabilities with in general. You say sometimes you can be sharp & he is back, but that's normal. Blowing up over small things is not.

How to sort the shouting thing, I don't know. Me keeping calm/shouting back/not answering doesn't seem to change anything

You are trying to fix his behaviour by modifying your own & that will never work. Only he can change it. There's nothing you can do beyond telling him it's unacceptable very time he does it, refuse to negotiate until he calms down, and tell him, firmly, that he needs anger management or some form of counselling to address it.

Thanks for your posts, I've only just had a look at the thread on the off chance someone's been kind enough to post.

Contrarian, he isn't a wanker and it takes me be surprise every time

He's actually someone I'd never come across before Handy, because he apologises without prompting and will acknowledge when he's been in the wrong. It's one of the main things I value about our relationship, that and the fact that he vary rarely judges me. Because of the type of person I am that means everything.

Which means I don't let anyone in Twinkle, because I've learnt the hard way never to expose my vulnerabilities (ooer ), and I've been very aware during the time I've been married that this includes DH too. I'm glad because it does give me a measure of protection should things go tits up, I'm a little bit distanced from things, I'd never trust him 100% and I'd never wholeheartedly rely on anyone.

When I say about the housework it's only an example, really I mean anything that comes to be an expectation in the smooth running of a household/relationship. When that role changes it can be a bit disconcerting, maybe he did feel a bit put upon, but he got over it.

I think he actually does have some anger issues, and I think he's beginning to realise it too. Something else came up when I had to really put my foot down to the metal to make sure he knew for sure that if it carried on I would leave him. He knew I was serious and he's taken measures to work on it.

And that's all I can ask him to do. To actually do something about it. If I'm not happy that he's done enough then I would reconsider, but I'm being honest when I say that he has done things which have made a difference. He's been texting me to ask how I am, doing things (without any fuss) to show he does care about me.

He's not someone who feels he'll lose face by backing down, and you just can't put a value on that.

I put my wedding ring back on today (after angrily throwing it into a draw however long ago it was I first posted) so maybe there's hope for us yet eh?

(God I love MN )