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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I need to talk about my father.

23 replies

ToriaPumpkin · 27/11/2013 12:25

And I know people on this board are usually pretty good at putting this stuff into context and giving advice and if all else fails hand holding.

I've posted on the Stately Homes threads a couple of times, my dad and I have a strained relationship. I think I was a bit of an inconvenience to him, he much preferred to spend time in his local than come home and see me while I was growing up. He "made up" for this by taking me on expensive outings every few months and buying me expensive gifts.

My parents separated when I was in my early teens and my mum met someone else. Dad was, on the surface, very supportive of mum but made snidey barbed comments to me about my step-dad. As we lived very far away at this point it was easy to deal with.

As time went on I began to see why him and mum had split up. He spent the vast majority of his time drinking and could be emotionally abusive. He would brag to his friends about how, at the age of 17, he could still make me cry with a few chosen words. I was usually present for these declarations.

I got engaged at 18 he showed little to no interest other than asking if the ring was more expensive than the one he bought my mother.

I got married three years later and he came to the wedding, got paralytic, made a twenty minute speech about himself, spent long periods of time monopolising my mum, trying to kiss her and mbeing rude to my step dad, came and draped himself across me when I was trying to speak to and say goodbye to my guests and eventually passed out in the bar and had to be carried out by two of my male cousins and the best man. The next day he denied all of this and has continued to, bar once asking me to delete his speech from the video.

As the years have gone on I've got better at dealing with the disappointment when he promises to visit and doesn't, since having my son I've learned not Toto trust his promises so as not to get my son's hopes up. One particular visit was cancelled half an hour before he was due to arrive (he's a seven hour train journey away) because he'd hurt his back so had gone home. Still the cheques arrive every Christmas and birthday that are meant to repair the damage caused by him being too drunk to know who I am when I call, taking no interest in my only grandchild (on one occasion I made plans to meet him and he asked who would babysit while I came over)

He's currently ill. He had a stroke last year but has continued to drink heavily and has become apathetic to life. Two weeks ago he fell and had to have a blood clot removed from his brain. Since then he's been in hospital and is now refusing to eat, drink, wash or get out of bed. The hospital have not been keeping me updated and I found out last night

OP posts:
OneMoreChap · 27/11/2013 12:31

I'm sorry.
I went NC with father - his doing.
Tried to repair, but he died without me seeing for a decade.

He's where he put himself; you have no blame, but IME will note the father sized hole in your life for a long time. It wasn't your choice, it was his.

I hope your friends can support you in the difficult time ahead.

Kaluki · 27/11/2013 12:33

I sympathise. I had a similar relationship with my dad who died 7 years ago. I made my peace with him before he died and accepted that although he was never the dad I wanted/needed him to be, he did love me in his own screwed up way.
The only advice I have is to get counselling and maybe go to Al Anon. Don't try and deal with it all on your own.
Thanks

cq · 27/11/2013 12:34

Toria, I can only imagine the mixture of emotions you are feeling right now.

Despite all his despicable behaviour over the years, he is still your dad and you must be very frightened and worried for him.

Has he named you as his next of kin? Presumably the hospital must be updating someone? And if not, I would jump up and down until they acknowledged you. Where is he in hospital? Do you have any other relatives or friends near there who could go in for you and see how he really is?

ToriaPumpkin · 27/11/2013 12:34

Sorry, my tablet froze and posted before I'd finished.

The bhospotal haven't been keeping me updated, despite me trying to call them regularly and last night I found out from a friend just how severe his condition has become. The last I heard he was eating and drinking and had moved to the ward, and his Dr told me not to rush down (currently 17wks pg with a toddler and nobody nearby to help while DH works full time).

He's on an IV as he won't drink, he can, but he won't. He doesn't want his friends to visit. He doesn't want to eat or get up, walk or make any efforts to get home. Apparently he drifts in and out of sleep almost constantly and having a conversation with him is near impossible.

The hospital think a visit from me will help. They think it will make him want to get up and moving.

I'm so angry with him. For not looking after himself,for letting things get this bad (a friend tells me his house belongs on Hoarders) for not caring any more. I'd hardened myself off to him not bothering about me,or my children (though I was told he was excited when I told him I was pg again three weeks ago) and I'm used to not feeling anything any more, so I wasn't expecting this. I've just cried on the phone to one of the rehab staff in The hospital.

I don't know what I'm trying to achieve with this post. I just need to get it all out before my brain explodes. My mum is coming down this afternoon to stay for a week so it's possible I could visit, though a seven hour journey with SPD fills me with dread right now.

Part of me also keeps asking why I should go. When I was in hospital with a head injury 10 years ago he didn't visit, or call,in fact he waited until I was out and back at university before calling to tell me how stupid I'd been to get injured in the first place.

Right. I'll stop now. I need to make some calls and my 2yo will wake soon. Thank you for listening.

OP posts:
ToriaPumpkin · 27/11/2013 12:37

Thank you for the replies so far!

I am down as next of kin, though they seem to be telling one of his friends more than they're telling me, I wasn't even informed when he'd moved wards last week until I called and nobody knew where he was!

OP posts:
Kaluki · 27/11/2013 12:47

Scarily similar to when my dad was in intensive care.
His alky girlfriend had put herself down as his next of kin so I had to get that changed and make sure I was informed of everything.
Your Dad is being cared for in hospital, he is in the best place. How do they know a visit from you will motivate him? When my dad was in ICU the first thing he asked when I saw him was if I could bring him some booze in!!
You need to take care of yourself and your dc first and foremost. A 7 hour journey with SPD is not going to help anyone.

sweetfluffybunnies · 27/11/2013 12:49

I am so sorry you are going through this. I have had a strained relationship with my dad although it has been better recently - since he was widowed. I am still very wary of him though, and will never be able to rely on him. He was not an alcoholic though.

As far as visiting him in hospital goes, I would say only do it if you think it will be better for you in the long run. If you believe that you may regret not going, or feel guilty for not going, then you should go. Arm yourself with the knowledge that you may be rejected, or dismissed, but that is a reflection on him, not you. And you will have fulfilled your obligations as his daughter, whether or not he deserved it. If, however, you feel that visiting him will be too upsetting, and that he doesn't deserve it, then don't go, and get on with your life with your head held high.

It is a difficult choice, but I'm sure you will do what is right for you. Good luck.

paulapantsdown · 27/11/2013 12:49

Sounds to me like you dad has never really given a shit about you. I wouldn't be rushing off across the country to see him if I were you. He has made his choices, amd although he may now be depressed and feeling sorry for himself and perhaps regretting the descisions he has made in his life, none of that is your fault.

Sorry, harsh but true.

I was NC with my narc dad, until he was approaching death, when I was sucked back in. Even though he was dying, he still managed to make me feel like shit again, and cause terrible hurt and anxiety. It is the biggest regret of my life that I ever went near him again.

Sorry to bring my own crap to your thread, but I now truly believe that that just because someone is ill, it does not mean that you can just forget everything they have done and rush to their side. Illness does change peoples personalities. You have your own family and yourself to take care of.

sicutlilium · 27/11/2013 12:52

That could be my FIL, who never fails to disappoint. He was paralytic at our wedding and missed his own mother's funeral because he was in a bar somewhere. Sympathy.

TalkativeJim · 27/11/2013 12:58

When it comes to visiting - or giving anything of yourself - do only what you feel happy with. If that's visiting - fine, if not - also fine.

It's a cliche but you owe him nothing. So be kind to yourself.

The keeping you informed is another matter however. If this is bothering you - contact the hospital and inform them that you are his next of kin, and they have failed to inform you of his condition and progress but you've been finding that this information has been passed on to other individuals. Tell them that if this happens again, you'll be making a complaint to PALS.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 27/11/2013 13:25

It's horrible when parents don't live up to the billing. On the one hand I think we should all reap what we sow and you owe him nothing. On the other there's the opportunity to be the 'bigger person' and accept that no-one's perfect. I agree with the PP therefore. Do what suits you and makes you happy, rather than acting out of any misplaced sense of duty

AttilaTheMeerkat · 27/11/2013 13:49

All this man really cares about is his own self and not even that now.

It is not your fault he is this selfish; this is the real him.

You owe this person nothing, he has let you down your entire life. He is not worth visiting.

Hissy · 27/11/2013 14:14

He's told them a sob story about you. I'd put money on it.

THAT'S why he's doing this, that's why the info to friends and not you. That's why they have said that a visit from you will possibly help him so much.

He is manipulating them. He is manipulating his friends and trying to manipulate you by getting the others to do so on his behalf.

I reckon.

You need to sit quietly and look at all that has passed, look at how you are now and your life and you need to see whether you WANT to go and see him, and if so, for what purpose.

Does he deserve/merit a visit? No. he does not.

Would a visit to him provide closure FOR YOU and help YOU come to terms with things both in the past and for the future?

Would the visit be a disaster and cause you more upset.

Only you can answer these questions, when you can, you will know what you need to do. FOR YOU.

Horrid situation, but keep posting as we'll do what we can to support you though it all.

whataboutbob · 27/11/2013 16:20

What Hissy says is quite possible. If you can, go to the hospital, speak to the sister/ charge nurse and prtoject to them that you are a reasonable person who wants to be kept informed about her fatehr. They will know from his condition/ liver tests etc that he is a heavy drinker. They may then put anything he's said in context. ASlcoholics confabulate.
Other than that, it sounds as if if he is ever discharged, it'll be to a nursing home. So be clear with yourself about how much you want to take on. Eg do you want to do the wortk of checking out homes, handling his finances etc. If not, then make that clear to them too. Or just keep a low profile and someone will step in/ social services will deal with it.

ToriaPumpkin · 27/11/2013 19:17

I hadn't considered that Hissy the most I've heard that he's said about me is what was reported by a friend which was that he wouldn't give anyone permission to contact me (despite me being next of kin) as he didn't want to worry me. It wouldn't surprise me to learn he had though.

I've talked it over with my mum and husband and I think I'm going to go. Not out of loyalty but to be the bigger person and so if the worst comes to the worst I can say I went. I can fly there and back on Sunday, so no long journeys and only away for one day. I think doing that, with a time limit, will also stop any potential guilt trips and lingering visits.

FWIW my mum agrees that he is probably doing this in an attempt to get me to go down, so does my best friend. And I think there's a distinct possibility that's true.

Withoutabob that's a good point, thank you. One of the reasons I want to go is to speak to the hospital directly to get projections for his recovery time and what will happen to him if he's released, where he will go etc.

I don't think going will cause me pain. I think closure is a good word here. I need to go to see for myself how he has once and for all stopped caring so I can finally write him off. Does that make sense?

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond. I've read every response and they're all sinking in. I promise to keep coming back.

OP posts:
Hissy · 27/11/2013 19:32

Sounds like a nasty case of martyrdom. Instead of fighting for his life, he goes on hungerstike and won't have you worried?

Well stop acting in a way to cause concern then!

Very selfish behaviour.

I think you would benefit from a trip, and one with boundaries too is a good idea all round.

Horrid for you, I hope all goes well, keep in touch eh?

Hissy · 27/11/2013 19:35

When my mum got pneumonia, I got blamed for it, and her DH told her that I didn't offer to fly home.

that was the first thing I offered! I wonder how many others he told that lie to.

People do the oddest things to make others look bad/weak/mean.

Trust your instincts, do what you can do and stick to what you decide to do.

paulapantsdown · 27/11/2013 21:27

I really feel for you in this situation OP. You must do what you think is right FOR YOU ok?

You are right to want to be the "bigger person", and by visiting him you will always be able to hold your head up high knowing you did right by him. That is a credit to you, but it comes with price. Please take care of yourself. x

ToriaPumpkin · 29/11/2013 15:28

Bloody hell Hissy Sad the human race never fails to astound me.

I've booked flights for Monday and told the hospital I will be able to visit then. They've said they'll lift the visiting restrictions for me. I've also been told he has got out of bed and sat in a chair a couple of times, though no word on whether or not he's eating.

My aunt is going to meet me there so that if I get upset or forget anything she can offer moral support, my Mum would come but she's staying here with my toddler.

I'm going to write a list of my questions, and make sure I make it clear that while I want to be informed I cannot offer any financial or physical support upon his discharge. I've also arranged to meet up with one of his friends to discuss the state of his house and arranging someone to clean it.

Meanwhile I've got a trip to the cinema tonight to see Catching Fire (nothing like two hours of torture and murder to take my mind off things) and then I'm helpingat a fundraiser in the morning. And my DS is being absolutely lovely (car park tantrums aside) so I'm managing to stay cheerful for the most part.

OP posts:
whataboutbob · 30/11/2013 17:33

Well done TP. Hospital and social services will be looking to identify someone to take care of things. He is using a hospital bed on which there is huge demand, they will not want him in there any longer than necessary. There is pressure on the ward to discharge patients as soon as medically fit, at the same time they cannot legally make an unsafe discharge. If you don t feel able to take on his discharge and supporting him thereafter, do not let them rope you in.

ToriaPumpkin · 07/12/2013 07:22

Sorry it's taken me so long to come back, it's been a bit of a long week.

The visit went much better than anticipated. He's not well, that was clear, and he was a bit muddled (trying to tell me two of the people on his ward were the landlord of his local and his wife, not recognising ex colleagues) but was with it enough to be sarcastic, get in a dig about me not visiting sooner or taking my son with me and try and crack jokes.

It seems that most of the problems he's now having (we saw the end of lunchtime) are his own doing. I'm sure the food's not great, but he refused to eat even plain potatoes, when I tried to suggest some of his favourite meals he said he didn't want any of them, or his favourite tea as he needs to up his fluid intake. When we arrived he complained that they won't let him get out of bed, before we left I saw him asking repeatedly to be allowed to get back into bed after half an hour in his chair.

I told the hospital there is nothing I can do but to keep me informed of any changes. He refused to talk to me when I tried to discuss his eating and stared at his plate like a sulky child. I spoke directly to his consultant who said that he's actually done remarkably well, and they wouldn't have expected him to survive the level of damage he sustained, but that if he won't cooperate then there is nothing they can do for him.

Since getting home I've spoken to his OT who was asking questions about his house that I couldn't answer, and about his demeanour over the last year which again I couldn't answer as the last few times ivey seen him have been at a funeral and the day after another one. They're hoping to move him to a rehab centre before Christmas. It won't be pleasant, from what I can gather he'll be in with people with substance and alcohol abuse problems (which, to be fair, he has) but he'll be closer to home and his friends so hopefully it'll give him a bit of incentive to try.

Overall I'm glad I went. I got to see how bloody infuriating he is and that he won't help himself so feel no guilt about not helping him.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 07/12/2013 07:34

I think you've done exactly the right thing and what's encouraging is that you seem to have retained a healthy detachment in the process. Most substance abusers are engaged in slow self-destruction so he's simply being consistent with that. If he died tomorrow, I think you'd have peace of mind.

BohemianGirl · 07/12/2013 07:34

Some people dont want to be helped and whilst they would never proactively commit suicide they very well may lose the will to live and choose a path that hastens death. Someone who drinks that heavily and is that unhappy, doesnt sound like they have much to live for TBH. You weren't initially being told/information with held about his refusal to eat etc in hospital - so he wasnt playing mind games with you - you didnt know, it wasnt for your benefit.

It's all in this phrase: if he won't cooperate then there is nothing they can do for him he doesnt want to live. Im sorry - we all make life choices and that's his.

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