Should I stop DH from telling PIL what he thinks of them?

[HoratiaDrelincourt]

We have a fairly middle ground with PIL as MN goes, but this will be long, sorry.

PIL spend around half the year very local to us, and the other half two thousand miles away at their "other house" (usually two months on, two months off). They took early retirement in 2006.

When they are here they invite our older DC (5 and 2) for sleepovers on a relatively frequent basis, say once or twice a month. This is very lovely for them but doesn't really represent much of a "break" for us as they've only just started taking DC2 now that we also have newborn DC3. They keep both DC up late - DC2 to 8.30 to make him sleep through reliably, and DC1 past 10pm so they can spend time with him, and in any case they don't want to have to come home from the pub before 7pm to have their tea. Again, that works out nicely for them, but gives us two completely exhausted and difficult children when we get them back.

I realise that some/many people get no nights off at all and many children have no relationship with their grandparents at all, so I have learned to count my blessings and hold my tongue and be grateful for what they do do. Equally, I don't rely on them at all, so all my back-up plans (eg emergency school pickups) are based on friends and not the PIL. We sometimes invite them for Sunday dinner, they sometimes invite us, they came to the nativity last year, etc.

But DH is starting to feel that this is unfair. PIL were able to retire early because of the jobs they had had while DH and SIL were growing up, which they could only have because GMIL provided free childcare (wraparound during term, full-time during holidays). I try to point out that everyone makes choices and nobody was held at gunpoint etc etc.

Matters came to a head this weekend. DC1 had been begging for FIL to come to his football practice (Sunday mornings) for some months. Since he was at PIL's on Saturday night, DH and FIL agreed that FIL would deliver the DC back to football instead of our house in the morning, and stay to watch. DC1 was extremely excited about this.

FIL didn't even stay for long enough to see DC1's boots tied, because he said he had shopping to do. DH then had to entertain DC2 during the session (we normally keep him away as it bores him) so couldn't watch DC1 either. FIL asked DH to lie to DC1 and say he left just before the end.

At the end of football DC1 asked DH if FIL had left straightaway. DH admitted that he had. DC1 cried.

DH is now absolutely raving. We have a strict no-lying policy with our DC and he refuses to lie on FIL's behalf who couldn't be bothered to put his shopping off for a few minutes to watch his grandson playing his heart out.

DH wants to go round to PILs' tonight and basically have it out with them. He's fed up of being put upon (constantly providing free IT support, lending out our garden equipment, providing lifts to and from airports, etc) without getting the benefits in return that he sees SIL get (lots of house renovation DIY stuff, free holidays, etc). He has been tipped over the edge now by our DC getting second best as well.

I don't think this would be remotely helpful. I think it would upset DH even more without actually making the slightest difference to how FIL and MIL behave. They've obviously justified all of it to themselves and enjoy their life. When DH and FIL argue, it lifts roof tiles. PIL are going back to their other house shortly so there's no chance to talk through things calmly and sensibly and reach agreement before they go - just a half-hour row and a lot of bad feeling.

I'm right to persuade him against a showdown, aren't I?

I would just stay well clear explain that dc was so upset so please do not invite us to things and we will not invite you to things I'm afraid it only gets worse and th resentment will build on your dh part and when that showdown happened you wouldn't have a chance to talk calmly

I think if he goes in with a huge amount of anger and a feeling that they owe him childcare and stuff like that, it will not end well. Because they don't.

However, some of the other stuff certainly can't blame him for feeling cross about! If he's feeling put upon and it's all a one way street why should he bottle up those feelings. It comes across like they're not that bothered, tbh. Not every grandparent is, sadly.

But I agree that this would be the wrong time to do it. There's no opportunity to discuss and to really explore things. There's just time for a row and that's it.

far better to wave them off and the two of you to then sit down and break down exactly what he's cross about and why. Separate the 'entitled' stuff from the genuine complaints. Then if he chooses to discuss it with them, he won't come off like a ranting monster who's basically complaining they don't give you both a break.

Cos that's all they'll hear if he goes in angry and tries to spew it all out.

It's his choice whether to have it out with them but he needs to do it with the understanding that it's likely nothing will change. Your role will then be to help him to comr to terms with the fact that his parents won't ever live up to his expectations. Talking to them might destroy the relationship but he might need that IYSWIM.

Meant to also say - they need to understand what he is actually upset about and they're less likely to do that if he tries to discuss it in anger.

I'm not sure if I understand the nub of your DH's grievance: is it that the PIL only have the children on their terms, or that they don't really look after them appropriately (won't miss the pub, late bedtimes), the football thing, or that SIL is favoured? It doesn't really matter which of those, as long as DH has it clear in his own mind, I suppose.

If a showdown won't change how PIL are it is only worth doing if DH feels he needs the catharsis of doing it, wants to change things unilaterally and needs a showdown to bring home to PIL that relations with them are going to change. When people want confrontations it tends to mean, to me, taht they still consider there is something in the relationship worth fighting for, It might be better for your DH to do some hard thinking about whether that is really the case and if not, what he is going to do about it.

My DH has avoided a showdown with his father, on the basis that no good would come of it and it would be wasted breath.

His other idea is that he should write it all in a "calm" e-mail. He would get me to sanity check it before it got sent.

I still think that's a terrible idea. It has the additional terrible-ness of being likely to end up with DH's being angry with me for editing out the ranting.

Anyway thanks for the responses I've seen. I'm glad you all agree that the timing is terrible, because that's the focus of my objection at present.

He could do that, but should not assume they will read it.

I think DH needs to stick to what he really is cross about, which is the being asked to lie.

the other stuff - preferential treatment - is nothing he can do anything about.

he can (and should) however STOP being so amenable to his parents if he feels it's a one way street.

The sleepovers too. Your ILs are having the children on their terms, without a single thought as to the care and wellbeing of their GC.

IME if you keep a child up way later than they usually go to sleep, it often makes no difference, as children have their waking up times. Often if I take My 7yo out for a concert or something, he wakes up EARLIER than normal as his sleep patterns are all skewed.

The only thing you can do as a parent if they do go, is to compensate with naps/quiet days before and after. but tbh, that's a PITA.

The only thing that stood out to me is that your DH feels that his DS gets more assistance childcare/free holidays/diy.

Yours inlaws are involved and from what you say far from toxic. Perhaps your dh should have a good idea of what it is that his sister gets that upsets him, then he can have a calm chat with his parents and see what they say. Is dh sister broke, single mum...???are there other factors at play. Im not saying these are fair but that's very common.

DH must be calm though.

This comes over in some parts that you and your DH are in some ways jealous of the relationship between your SIL and her parents.

The only thing that matters here, IMO, is that your FIL has reduced his Grandson to tears by not watching him play football. Does FIL realise how much this meant to your son for his FIL to see him play.

There are mentions in your OP about 'providing free IT support, loaning of garden items etc' and 'not getting benefits in return' - do you really mean that favours for your parent's should only be done if their is a reciprocal receipt - this does not come across nicely at all, what happens with his sister and her parents is between them, not your concern.
You also get some free childcare, yet it looks like you want to dictate what may happen on these occasions.

You need to take a good long look at this situation and maybe, when all has calmed down in your and your DH's mind, then you can have a family discussion next time you all meet up.

Personally, I tend to advise against emails, as it gives them something to show other people and potentially edit to make you look even worse..

face to face, no evidence....

I agree with Hissy (again) emails are a bad idea, they can be read differently/twisted to how they were intended. Then there to be read and re read and passed on for others to read.

ALLMYCATS: It must hurt OP's DH that his sister gets all the help while he gets none, yet he helps out his parents all the time. come on that's smarts surely. Looks like DSIS is the golden child....I really don't think this is about jealousy.

No way should your husband lie about his father in law leaving early!

Right immediately wasn't the time. If your husband is able to calm down, write down what he's angry about and then rather than email it go to see them face to face and explain calmly, that would be best. Explain that he can't lie and that your son was in tears and that it really mattered to him.

However, how are they likely to react? Best case is that they will see his point and change. Worst case is that they will get the huff and refuse to do anythign more with your DC. Middle of the road, and most likely from what you've written, is that they will reduce what they already do to some degree.

Whatever happens its clear too that your husband feels taken advantage of. A quieter and more subtle way of handling that would be simply to be unavailable for some of the tasks he usually handles or say that he no longer feels able to do it. But I would recommend trying to get him to speak calmly and assertively here rather than exploding.

To me the most important thing here is actually to work out how to handle your children in all this. It sounds to me like they could be in for increasing disappointment over their grandparents, whether things stay the same or whether they get worse. They will need to be handled gently. There could be different ways to do that. I'm not sure of the best, its so hard handling kids' disappointment, but as a general rule maybe be honest and say that you are disappointed too (but maybe someone wiser can come up with a better solution!).

Does your DH's sister have any kids? Maybe PIL feel that since they do some child care for you, that it evens out as they do DIY for her? Although I do not know where the holidays for her fit into the justification.

The respective treatment of SIL and DH is definitely unequal - she is coupled up but childless so far, for those who were asking, so we aren't comparing grandchildren.

It probably also matters that she had significant health issues as a child which would inevitably lead to her being treated more protectively, even though it's been resolved for nearly twenty years. As a parent, though, I get that. Interestingly this is mirrored in my family - DB had trouble as a small child so DM definitely favours him and worries about him excessively, but I think DF compensates by favouring me, so that's fine

But unequal doesn't mean unfair. Because PIL aren't my parents, I don't feel emotional when I assess what they do; DH can hardly help reacting emotionally to it.

I agree that how they choose to allocate their resources (finances, emotions or effort) is totally up to them, and not really the point. I mentioned the inequality only because it serves as such an observable contrast for DH, whereas comparing our position to other families is less stark/emotional - emotional again! Similarly DH recently saw my DF gladly go to football with DC1 despite the weather and hating football, simply because DC1 had asked him to. Again, he's noticing a contrast and doesn't want the DC to notice too

I asked DH whether he thought his parents would be "closer" grandparents to SIL's children if/when she has them - he did. I gently pointed out that that was probably inevitable (being DM/DD rather than MIL/SIL dynamic) and he agreed again. And that's ok - assuming of course the DC don't feel second-rate.

I agree that the focus of any annoyance must be "you disappointed DC1 and asked us to lie to him" rather than anything else. For a start, one is always more likely to get a response to one complaint than half a dozen.

But I still think now probably isn't the time, and irrefutable evidence in black and white email is a bad bad plan.

Apparently he needs to see them tonight to fulfil another request before they go, and I don't think he will be able to bite his tongue about the football thing. The best I can do is probably to persuade him to stay on topic and mention only FIL's most recent and most inappropriate cock-up. Saying very clearly "I won't cover for you" should surely be enough.

I forgot to talk about reciprocal favours.

I don't think favours should immediately even out - if you do x I'll do y, sort of thing. It's more that either families are "we do each other favours" families or they're not, and at present all the favours are going in one direction, or at least in DH's interpretation.

The "childcare" we get is really not that helpful - we miss tea/bath/bed/breakfast which are the nice bits of the day, and PIL take DC to the pub* to show them off to their friends.

What we would like in an ideal world would be to be able to choose a day/night to have the DC looked after, so that we could get something done. That's what "childcare" means to me. In the last twelve months this has happened precisely twice - and I was giving birth one of those times. The other times they've had them have genuinely been for the benefit of PIL and the DC, with us getting a slight benefit as a side-effect if you see what I mean.

• whether their relationship with alcohol is healthy is a separate issue that DH is pretty puritan about, but that is definitely off the table as a discussion point.

Actually I think if your DH is cross he should tell his parents. My IL's treat my DH and my SIl entirely differently. SIL and her family get treated like gods whilst DH and us get the dregs. When things got so bad DH has tried ever so nicely to explain how unfair they have been to DS and they have just ignored him. SIL screams and shouts and tantrums and demands and they listen and fall over themselves to do what she wants.

So having spent 20 years advising against falling out with them and taking the moral high ground I have come to the conclusion that only they who shout loudest get heard. Bottling it up isn't good as it takes on a vast life of it's own.

I didn't like to all it childcare but I did not know how else to phrase it. It does sound like they want the kids on their terms.

I think it is a very bad plan to get involved with someone else's relationship with their parents.

Especially to encourage them to suppress their feelings.

So what if he is not entirely reasonable in your view?

Surely a parent/child relationship should be able to cope with some unreasonableness?

How did it go OP? Did he say anything?

Thanks for checking up.

No, he didn't say anything. Once the red mist had lifted he agreed that it wouldn't achieve anything. He has decided instead to become less available, less quick to do their bidding, and so on. That isn't a spiteful thing, but rather to protect himself so he doesn't feel put upon. If he feels more able to say no it will annoy him less... at least in theory.

That's a good idea. Once he feels in control of the situation it will be easier to deal with.

OP - just a thought about FIL's attitude to the football match. I have noticed over the years that my own DPs have become much less flexible, much more set in their ways. It would not be unlike my DF to have decided he will go shopping, fix on that, and not even consider that his DGS would notice or be upset. My parents once refused to cancel a weekend away when my DB was planning to visit from Scotland because "it had been arranged months ago" - it just didn't occur to them that DB should have first call. I have given up picking them up on this - and just accepted that that's the way it is. I actually don't think they mean any harm by it, they have just become much more focused ion themselves.

Yes gingerbread I definitely agree with that. I've observed more generally that when people retire - and therefore have more control over their time - they build false appointments into the week eg "we always do the shopping on a Tuesday" rather than enjoying their new flexibility!

Gingerbreadbaker, your brother should have checked your parents availability rather than expect them to cancel their pre booked holiday. Retired doesn't mean available at the drop of a hat, what a cheek assuming that his presence trumps their prior plans.