Worried about DC when they're with XH.

[NotMyRealName77]

I've NC for this because XH knows I use MN and I don't want him to know my usual name.

I'm trying to keep to the important points so apologies if I miss out something, there is of course a lot of background but I don't want to write a huge essay. XH had the DC (aged 8 & 6) for the weekend, along with his general crap level of parenting - staying in bed until lunchtime and feeding them nothing but fast food and other junk, he let them watch South Park - he watched it with them, they didn't just accidentally find it on the TV.

I don't think this is acceptable. He doesn't see what the problem is, he says I'm being 'petit bourgeois', 'narrow-minded' and 'unhip'. Is this just down to different parenting styles or am I right to be annoyed & upset over it? I feel like I really can't trust him to look after them any more. But I also feel like there's absolutely nothing I can do about it.

I can see why you are upset, I would hate if my dc were looked after that way. However he hasn't actually done anything to endanger them, I know that doesn't help you much when you are the one trying to stop them swearing / fighting after watching rubbish like that or getting them to eat a proper meal.

Maybe suggest some clubs or activities that they would like to do at weekends, that would give his time with them a bit more structure. I don't think there is a lot else you can do really.

I've learned to live with the general crap stuff - picking them up late, cancelling/rearranging whenever he feels like it (he didn't see them at all for 7 months this year), junk food, computer games, no bed times, etc. But I feel like letting them get up on their own while he's still asleep is potentially dangerous. And I think that letting them watch South Park is actually damaging. I don't want my children to hear that sort of language, or to repeat the kind of things that happen in the show - they told me all about it when they got home, what if they were to tell their teachers?

What is it with these parents??? My DPs ex let their 11 year old son watch The Inbetweeners and KickAss!! My DS is 14 and I wouldn't let him watch either of those and he now has the major hump with me - I am uncool and too strict apparently. Tough bananas - he still isn't watching them!!
I agree that South Park is totally unsuitable but in reality there is not much you can do about it. Maybe just impress upon them that they are never to repeat what they hear on there?

OP, I hope the following helps; sharing because I've been the child in a similar situation (though sadly more actively abusive, not just neglect)

Make sure your children know they can speak to you about how they feel, specifically how they feel about their dad, without you bringing your feelings into it. Make sure they know you are on their side. Then let them know that they can decide things for themselves. I don't mean watching South Park or not; I mean seeing dad or not.

You say he went 7 months without seeing them; changes arrangements on a whim; he's late and when he's with them, he's not parenting them. You are understandably furious; how do they feel?

As I said, I was the child. I was miserable. I had a dad who didn't love me and didn't want me but I was made to see him - worst of all by my mum, the centre of my world, my protector so I thought it must have been my fault he behaved like that. When I was 8, my auntie found me crying. I told her I didn't want to go for the weekend to dad and neither did my DSis. Overnights stopped then. By the time I was 10, I'd decided I wanted no contact at all. When I was 12, I was legally made a ward of court then adopted by my mum and real dad (who she married when I was 8) so bio-dad couldn't claim me. Happy ever after.

Please don't focus your worry on them hearing bad language or eating pizza. This is them learning about relationships, building self-esteem, finding who they are. Sounds to me like he deserves no part in it.

to you and them

Was contact at all formalised legally?. How often does he have them in his care? (I use that word advisedly).

If contact was never formalised legally I would now look to formalising this now through the courts.

If you never had any formal arrangements then I think mediation is better than the courts, as well as substantially cheaper (no legal aid anymore for straightforward children's cases). It's also less adversarial, so less chance of damaging relations further.

The horrible thing is that though this doesn't sound at all ideal, I don't think you have any say on what happens in his care unless it's actively abusive or neglectful. That works both ways - I mean, imagine how many exes would want the right to dictate how the primary carer did their job (many do grumble about "how their money is spent" as it is). So trying to work with him on this may be more constructive than spending a fortune on solicitors to no avail.

Have you tried suggesting he picks them up when he gets up both weekend days he has them, so he has his lie-in and still sees the kids? It's crappy for you as you get no lie-in ever in that scenario, but at least you won't worry, and he may go for that if he's a lazy sod. I agree not getting up at all with them (what do they eat) is appalling at that age, but if they're sensible they should be fine. My mother used to leave me home alone at 9 for the day when I was ill, because she couldn't get the time off work, and while I'd never do it myself I lived to tell the tale! The South Park thing is awful but mediation might be a more constructive place to raise that, really. He may be rather less bullish about it if there's another adult present (maybe print off some of the dialogue to take along and ask if it's really suitable for a 6 year old). The angle I use on language with childless friends and my mother is that if they start repeating bad language then they won't get asked to other kids' houses, so it affects their social lives. Your ex may not care about age appropriate boundaries but he may mind a lot more about his sons being unpopular? Might be worth a shot.

Should add that agreements reached between you both in mediation can then be approved by the courts, thus becoming binding - that may have been what Attila meant.

Thanks mrswalker for sharing that. My parents divorced when I was 12 and issues around contact with my dad (also abusive) were truly awful for me too.

DD doesn't talk much about how she feels, she describes daddy as 'unreliable' and certainly wouldn't count on him for anything special (she didn't want to see him on her birthday recently), but she does love him and loves spending time with him. She's been reluctant on occasion to go to his flat, the last time was because she'd heard him shout at me on the previous pick-up and she didn't want daddy to shout at me again. She's always happy when I collect though and says she's had a good time. DS thinks his daddy is the greatest person in the world and took it very badly when XH stopped contact, he's still worried that it will happen again.

There's no formal contact agreement in place and I absolutely couldn't afford to go through the courts. XH currently has them every other weekend, collects Friday at 4 from my house (he cant be relied on to get them from school) and I pick them up from his flat on Sunday at 6.

perfectstorm I don't think he'd want to pick them up each day on his weekend because he doesn't have a car (just a motorbike) so he's reliant on public transport which is difficult and time-consuming from his side of town to mine. And he's perfectly happy to sleep while they sort themselves out. They eat chocolate chip brioche at his house for breakfast. There's no yoghurt or fruit to go with it and no juice or milk to drink, DD said the milk has to be saved for daddy's coffee. The only fruit in the house apparently is in a high-up cupboard and is just for daddy.

XH isn't concerned at all about societal norms, he goes out of his way to be awkward and different, I don't think he'd care in the slightest bit if the DC started swearing, much less if they were unpopular. He considers popularity to be indicative of some kind of defect. He wasn't always like this, I hasten to add, he used to be very charming, if a little different, it's like all the bad points of his personality grew over the years until the good bits were all gone.

the food stuff every other weekend i really not a big deal. brioche for breakfast is fine!

of course it is weird he saving milk and fruit for himself. but not neglect as such if he giving them other food.

all you can do is be open, listen to them and make it clear that swearing is not ok.

I've no objection to brioche for breakfast, they get that here sometimes, but with a bit of fruit and a glass of milk or something. And of course I get out of bed to do it, or at least to supervise them doing it.

They haven't actually repeated any words from the show, just told me all about the 'hilarious' poo-based storyline.

I know there's nothing truly terrible happening there, it's lots of small crap things that bother me, and I can't tell him what to feed them or when to send them to bed or how to discipline them. I guess I'm just worried that it seems a bit worse every time I hear about it, and it seems like there's a complete lack of thought and effort and care on his part, and there's bugger all I can do about it.

I have an ex like this, lets my 8 & 4 year olds watch 12 films & fast forward any bits he consider disturbing & lets them eat shit & stay up late constantly. Its part of the 'oh I'm a good parent, look how much fun you have here bet you don't have this much fun with your mum' type things.

Things I have learned is that its only for a couple of days here & there, the majority of their time is spent with me which is why they're well behaved children with social awareness :) Whatever he does with them will be in a minority compared to the lifestyle you provide them with & you will have more influence on what they consider to be right/wrong, good/bad etc because you spend more time with them.

As long as they have a balanced healthy diet then it will not do them any actual harm if its only 2 days. Its not something you would encourage but they won't get malnourished as they get proper food with you.

I've said that they can know the swear words as long as they don't say them. I've said that there is a difference between hearing words & using them. Bear in mind that they will hear all sorts in the playground & from friends as well.

8 & 6 year olds love poo! Anything that is a bodily function or a little bit disgusting they will laugh uproariously at. My 8 yo loves Horrible Histories & its full of poo based jokes, South Park is not unique!

When 8 year old says 'but daddy lets us watch 12 yo films & says there's no bad language' I say that the language isn't the only reason why a film is 12. The storyline could be unsuitable or there could be scary bits. I also say that daddy has different rules from mummy & that's why they can do different things in each house.

When they say 'we have much more fun at daddy' s house' I say I know! He doesn't have to get you to school or make you practise you guitar or do your homework, of course you love it. But you still have to go to school & you still have to practise your guitar & if you lived with daddy you would have to do these things too. But I'm glad you have fun with him :)

as one tried mummy said.

you have to not let it bother you.

let it go. you have them most of the time and it's what you do with them that counts. and yes they probably focusing more on the hilarious to them poo than the swearing!

It's good advice, and of course you're right, if there's nothing I can do it's pointless getting annoyed.

I agree it sounds like sub-par parenting (any series that has a film spin-off containing the song "shut your fucking face, uncle-fucker" isn't ideal watching material for small kids and the food and lie-ins are less than ideal) but tbh, not having their father in their lives would be more harmful than this. Much. At least they have a regular and present dad in their lives.

A friend has a 4 year old and teenage boys, and apparently the 4 year old picked up on the f word and a couple of others from them. He understands about context, and never uses them around anyone his own age or other adults. Maybe a context conversation might be an idea, as a general and vague conversation rather than undermining their useless father?