Narcissitic(?) mother

[N4rk]

Name changed incase I get flamed.
Since going to university and talking to other people about their family life I have come to realise that there has always been something weird in the way our family runs and I think my mum is a narcissist. I've looked at some threads on here and have visited the Daughters of Narcissists and she ticks pretty much all of the boxes, a few things particularly stick out in my mind:

• Our whole family revolves around her - her opinion is the only one that matters, we do what she wants to, we believe what she wants us to. No one else can have differing opinions and she takes it very personally if she feels someone disagrees with her.
• She believes, and has often told me this, that its only worth pursuing relationships (friends, boyfriends etc) if they will benefit you directly. E.g. DF is a trained bricklayer and she saw this a valuable skill which would benefit in the future so continued seeing him. She's quite often told me that she likes my boyfriend but he won't benefit me in anyway so I should leave him.

-She constantly belittles my younger sister and I, particularly in front of others. Some of the things she says are cruel - often remembering touchy subjects and past events which she will bring up. e.g. 'I don't blame so and so for breaking up with you, no one could love you' after a recent break up. -She sees us all as an extension of herself - and has admitted she is living her life through me.

• I am very grateful to her for paying for my education for the last 18 years but I had to battle hard to be allowed to do Alevels and come to university because 'she didn't need that education to be where she is today'. However, when I get good results she is more than willing to tell other people despite showing no interest or support for the last 5 years. When I told her I will most likely 'only' get a 2.1 this year she was dissapointed because that's what her friends daughter is predicted. I am very proud of how well I've done but she constantly belittles my achievements.
• She is also an alcoholic and does not care about the effect it has on my sister and I, let alone my DF.

I just wanted to get that down really, I'm only just starting to realise the way we lived as a family wasn't normal and I can have my own opinions and life. It's a weird feeling. I desperately don't want want to be like her, I can't imagine knowing any future children of mine would be walking on eggshells constantly.

How can I start to work out what my opinions are and what I want from life? I feel very confused

One thing you can do is to start detaching emotionally from your mum. On the face of your post, it sounds like your mum is trying to grind you down until you have no, or very little, self esteem and confidence left. That way she can control you more for her own ends.

IME seeing the narc person as nothing more than a person is probably the easiest way to detach from your mum, and the more you practice it, the more you can see your mum for the individual she REALLY is. Sometimes it's hard to hear the harsh truth about your parent(s) from others, but we don't necessarily see the real situation because we're right in the middle of it. That's when it's time to step back and ask yourself if you would let a friend treat you that way.

If your answer is a resounding NO, it's time to start pulling your mum up on her insults. The one thing I've noticed about people who display narc qualities, is that they do not like being confronted with their awful behaviour and, with a lot of narcs, they will try and twist that round to make it look as if your were to blame for their upset. You're not to blame BTW, if they didn't act that way, they wouldn't be pulled up about it in the first place.

So, detach emotionally, be civil and polite, but do not engage as much as possible and limit contact between yourself, your mum and your DC. By limiting contact between your mum and your DC, you can keep your sanity as well as limiting the toxicity your DC are exposed to.

HTH

Yep. I would say she is. Very similar to my mum. She would spend hours putting my choices down to me and then spend hours telling everyone how great my choices were.

Detach, don't tell her anything important about yourself and if you steer the conversation to her all the time you will be fine.

This is very hard to do. Still dealing with guilt but it is easier all the time. And life is better and happier.

Alcoholics aren't nice people. You probably need some professional help detaching from her.

I'm coming to terms with similar. It's really unsettling because I now question 95% of the interactions we have.

I also feel confused because she's what I know - she's my reference in terms of who and what a mother should be so surely it's inevitable that I'll do the same? And that it's ingrained in me due to nature and nurture......

I have a bonkers narc mother - although we are getting on at the moment - and would recommend the Nina Brown book 'children of the self absorbed'. It helped me make sense of so much and has great coping strategies.

There's also some good online resources for daughters of narcissistic mothers but do ignore/avoid the Sam Vankin stuff.

I fear my kids will need a copy of the book as I see myself growing into her to some extent... But I try...

Good luck. It's shitty. X

Your mum is who she is. We don't get to choose our parents and they don't choose us. If it helps you to give her behaviour a tag, that's fair enough. But if you're 18 and at uni, you've basically left home and her influence is already on the wane... she knows this. There's no obligation to go back home. You're not still financially dependent are you? Move on with your life, get jobs, travel, find a place of your own, pay your own way, and limit your connection with her to telephone calls or the odd visit. Her alcoholism, you can't fix. Her daft ideas about bricklayers, you can ignore. (I'm late forties and my DM was only telling me last week how she wishes I could meet a rich man :) .. they never give up) It'll take a while to stop caring what she thinks about you... that's the main problem with the parent/child dynamic. But the more independent you are, the easier you'll find to shrug it off.

No, you can see how wrong it is the your mother behaves.
My mother is very similar. I believe her pathetic parenting has helped me become a better mother!
I have to try and limit my dc from seeing her as often as they would all like. But my dm is pulling my dd over to her, and my dd is falling for it all and displaying some of dm behaviour.

I find it, still, very hard to come to terms with. Because like you say, this is your perception of how a mother should be. But its not!

You can get very good advice from MN on how to deal with it.
Good luck i know how hard it is

"How can I start to work out what my opinions are and what I want from life?"

Live. Experience. Take chances. Set yourself challenges. Find other people with characteristics you admire and learn from them. I mistakenly thought you were 18 but, doing finals, you're probably more like 21/22... many people don't know who they are or what they think at that age. Institutionalised through various education establishments, influenced by parents, their experience of 'the world' is limited. It's all out there to be grabbed.

If you still live with her then move out as near to immediately as you can manage. Then distance yourself. Keep seeing her if you want but make it on your terms as and when you want to and keep her at arms length. Build a life for yourself, friendships hobbies etc which she has no involvement in. Remember not to inadvertently ask for her opinion on your friends or hobbies.

As you make your own life her behaviour will probably start to seem even more extreme to you. You can then start sticking up for yourself in little ways just making it clear that your boyfriend choices are none of her business and not to say nasty things about you.

You might want to practice before hand.

Its lucky you're not dating him then.

Its really non of your business mum.

That might be how you pick a boyfriend but its not what i look for in a man and seeing as its my life, what you would do is irrelevant.

What a hurtful thing to say mum.

How can you say something so nasty.

Im leaving now and won't be back until you learn to talk to me without being so downright hurtful and nasty.

Etc etc

I think some people in your situation are never able to assert themselves, but you might find that if you can it will benefit your self esteem.

(as someone who has still never managed to do it with the inlaws, the injustice eats me up and my self esteem is on the floor!)

How does your dad deal with it?

I had a friend who was a younger version of your mum

Its good that you have seen this quite early. I always knew my mum was highly strung and stubborn. But it took me until I was 25 (last year) to really see how much she had destroyed my confidence and self esteem.

Even now, she is in direct competition with me all the time, and is visibly gleeful at any slight mistake I make. Even my 4 year old has told me "Granny thinks she's the best, but she's not."

Chiggers' post is excellent and I agree entirely. You need to detach from her. You need to find a way to stop seeking her approval. And physically you will probably find it easier to not be around her because that way, every single decision you make won't be picked apart.

I have come to the point where I tell my mum next to nothing.

Thanks Wannabe, I'm just speaking from my limited experience, but I'm hoping it'll be something for the OP to think about.

OP, the thing about detaching and distancing yourself, it may help you to see the situation more clearly, like an outsider would see it. Oh, and don't be afraid to come here for support when you're finding it hard to cope. Sometimes just talking it over and getting other people's opinion can help you get a different perspective in the cold light of day.

Like I said, sometimes we can't see the wood for the trees :)

Thank you all for your replies and support It's hard when you come to realise that your parents are human and not perfect.

I think detaching is the way forward so I can find out what I want from life. Since I've left I've realised how often I feel I need to know her opinion on something, like she has to validate everything I do. I don't feel ready to completely detach myself yet though (and to be honest I can't at the moment) but it's good to know I wouldn't be irrational to do that in the future if needs be.

Ahole, your suggestions about what to say are good, thank you. I've tried standing up for myself before but it usually causes arguments or she says I'm being insensitive. If my boyfriend is there though he will often defend me, which she absolutely hates (probably why she dislikes him suddenly for no reason) and she can't really say anything in response to it.

My dad doesn't often show any outward signs of thinking it's wrong to her face. He's very much under her thumb and enables her behaviour quite a lot. Her drinking is 'just her way of dealing with things', despite it being an obvious problem and doctors telling her she's causing damage. He is bipolar and she regularly tells him she has no sympathy for people with mental health issues. I feel more sorry for him than anyone else.

Thank you all again, it's good to talk about it.

In my limited experience of narc people, I look at the bigger picture and see that it's about power over people and controlling them. Not seeking her opinion on different decisions takes that power away from her because she can't influence you or your decision(s). Narcs thrive on controlling people and can be very quick to twist things that you say or do, and use them against you, if you don't say what they want to hear or give them what they want.

With narcs, it's always 'me, me, me'. They want people to praise them because their self esteem and confidence is very fragile. Anyone who takes power and control away from the narc person, eg, not 'consulting' them on decisions made, will be berated or the situation twisted in such a way that the narc person seems to be the victim. Narcs hate not having control and power over others and manipulating people into agreeing with them.

Distance yourself from your mum and keep your DC away from her too because, like I mentioned before, her toxic attitude is what the DC will be exposed to and she may well try poisoning their minds against you. You can turn this around to get even more power, by telling your DC to challenge what their gran has said or done against you, eg, your mum says nasty things about you to the kids. The kids challenge your mum about what she has said (even by saying "well we think mum's fab"), so she gets angry with them and tells them not to come back. What better way to cut contact with her and it's all on her terms . Job done