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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Moving house or not moving house ...

26 replies

LibraryBook · 13/11/2013 22:21

what to do if you can't agree?

One of us would like to move house as we have quite a bit of money tied up in our property and we don't need to live in such a big expensive house. For clarity, we would be moving TO a 5 bedroom detached house with a large garden and in a desirable part of town (but a bit more on the outskirts). I'd like a bit more disposable income (this plan entirely eliminates our mortgage and would give us money left over to perhaps buy a small holiday home or save or whatever) but him indoors thinks everything is fine as it is.

We've reached an impasse and I need some perspective.

OP posts:

cheapskatemum · 13/11/2013 22:31

Perhaps suggest he clean your large house for a few weeks, in an effort to get him to see that a smaller house would be preferable? We're doing our house up to sell, with a view to downsizing, so you have my sympathy. We haven't even decided where we're moving to, but at least have agreed on something smaller!

Cabrinha · 13/11/2013 22:40

You don't really give enough reasons on either side.
For yourself, you say more disposable income, or save, or a holiday home... so you don't seem to have a firm reason for the change? I'd be reluctant to move without more of a "why". In fact, saving... he may see the investment in the larger property as a form of saving.
If you have enough spends, I wouldn't want the upheaval of moving. And a holiday home sounds interesting - but how can you sell it to him when it's not your firm plan? (at least it all sounds vague to me from your OP)

So for starters, I'd suggest you discuss pros and cons.

If still an impasse, I guess at the end of the day the status quo probably rules... if that's something you both decided before, then I think it's "tough luck" if one changes their mind.

However, if it causes issues - and especially if it's a symptom of a wider dissatisfaction - then perhaps counselling?

Cabrinha · 13/11/2013 22:41

cheapskatemum perhaps he already does just as much cleaning as the OP?!

Original poster

LibraryBook · 13/11/2013 22:54

cheapskatemum - I'm envious of your agreement.

It feels rather passive aggressive of him to state that the status quo is his preference. But I see that it's equally poor form for me to insist my preference is the best.

OP posts:

Cabrinha · 13/11/2013 22:57

Why is it passive aggressive to say that the status quo is his preference?
Why is it not just his genuine preference?

Forgive me for putting 2 and 2 together to get 5, but I get the feeling if we poured a drink now and started to chat, a lot more would come out about how you feel in your marriage right now.

Hope you're OK.

Original poster

LibraryBook · 13/11/2013 23:03

Cabrinha - A far smaller proportion of his wealth is tied up in the house. We own our current house as joint tenants. I could sell him a tranche of my half. That way he gets to keep the status quo and I get to do the things I want to do.

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Cabrinha · 13/11/2013 23:15

But do you actually want to move?
I know that being on Relationships board makes me see issues everywhere :)
But that now sounds like you're not so bothered about moving, you're bothered about him stopping you from doing what you want to do...
Is that move, or own a holiday home, or something else?

There are plenty on here who would find the idea of a husband buying property from his wife odd, but tbh I'm in the separate finances and assets camp myself!

Can you use your half of current house as an asset against which to raise some money to fund what you want?

Or if you're paying towards the mortgage and he has greater wealth, discuss with him you paying a lower proportion to free up more disposable income.

Again, I'm not clear on what you actually want, which means I think it would be hard for you to "sell" your plan to him, if you're not clear to him.

Cabrinha · 13/11/2013 23:19

I'm not sure if I were him, that I would see you selling part of your share to him as any gain to him? Depends on his long term plans. If they are that this house is lived in, mortgage paid off in time, kept until passed on as inheritance to your children - then he gains nothing from buying you out.

I know that's quite a business like way to look at a marriage, but so is selling each other parts of the marital home!

As I say, I'm in the separate money camp so I'm not criticising you for that... just explaining why he may not see a benefit to doing it.

Original poster

LibraryBook · 13/11/2013 23:29

Cabrinha - Yes! I think it's about feeling independent, iykwim. I would love to stay in my house but not at the expense of independence and freedom to dream with a bit of meaning. Can you tell I'm about to hit 50? I would like to explore the feeling of being able to use my money to pursue my dreams. That might include buying a holiday home and it might not. It might mean investing it in shares. It might mean starting a new business. I just don't know. But I do feel I deserve that freedom. And I won't be depriving anyone of a lovely roof over their heads as we'll have that in the new house.

Gawd. We probably do need to go to counselling.

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Original poster

LibraryBook · 13/11/2013 23:40

Cabrinha - We aren't married, we have children but we aren't married.

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Viviennemary · 13/11/2013 23:44

Just keep going on and on and on at him day after day after day. It sometimes works but not always. It's how I got DH to move. It took five years.

Joysmum · 14/11/2013 02:05

Maybe you see it as a house and a barrier to living a fuller life whereas he sees it as his home rather than just a house.

Want2bSupermum · 14/11/2013 02:20

I have had a similiar argument with DH. He wants a stomping big house and I don't. We have reached a compromise by looking at houses that can be split into flats. DH can have his 5,000 sqft home and live in 1,250 sqft of it with rental income coming in from other units. It will reduce our housing costs to less than what we spend now but our asset will be worth hundreds of thousands more.

At 50 I would be very careful of having a home that suitable for retirement. It is very expensive to buy a home in the UK now that stamp duty kicks in at such a low level. I would be looking at a bungalow with a small, easily managed garden.

Cabrinha · 14/11/2013 08:14

Viviennemary really?! If someone did that to me all it would do is piss me off and very negatively impact our relationship!

Cabrinha · 14/11/2013 08:20

LibraryBook I get where you're coming from!
I wonder if what he is hearing is;
"I want to move" and he is thinking "I don't".
Perhaps if he heard "I want to do something more interesting with our money" he'd get enthused and even have ideas? Or specifically if he heard "I'd like to raise £XK to follow this opportunity" he'd be more open to talking about it?
In his position, I'd be unwilling to move without really understanding why - straight away you'd be losing a considerable amount on stamp duty!

It feels like this could come down to one of those resentments where one party likes to do new and exciting things, the other is a bit more set in their ways. Or that he has always had the final word in big decisions... rather than it being specifically about something you want now.

Original poster

LibraryBook · 14/11/2013 09:53

Joysmum - Yes perhaps a bit. But perhaps I see it as a house because I can't afford to comfortably own my half forever, and he sees it as a home because he can very comfortably continue to own his half forever and ever.

Viviennemary - I can't think of anything more destructive to a loving relationship, but thanks for taking the time to share.

Cabrinha - Thanks. You've been exceptionally helpful at articulating what the other view might look like!

He's someone who lives extremely cheaply in that he has no need of nice clothes or things. While it's nice to not be materialistic, he is extreme. Even for his main hobby he makes do with old (and a bit broken) equipment, even though improved kit is available for under £100. He sometimes wistfully talks about its replacement (I gently tell him he should replace but we both know he won't or somehow can't). This is fine in that it's completely up to him. But he has a tendency to assume we both feel exactly the same about all things, when we really don't. I worry that I am losing my individuality to groupthink. I'm actually quite shallow in that I'm interested in nice clothes, White Company bedding and eating in nice restaurants occasionally. Whereas he's not. We can only really eat out if there is a discount voucher for a chain restaurant or something. I think he sees this as some sort of badge of honour. He wears a horrible bobbly fleece, day in day out which embarrasses the life out of our daughter (she really loves it on the rare occasions when he's dressed smartly). I've told him the ancient bobbly fleece has seen better days but still he wears it. I'd like to be able to book our family holiday in advance instead of scratching around looking for a discounted last minute holiday, or not going at all. It's all totally unnecessary. I'm very sensible with money by the way, in case you think he's saving me from my own fecklessness. He has many many good qualities but his tendency to be mean, even with himself, is upsetting. And exhausting. While I accept that this is the way he is, I don't believe I have to be like it.

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Viviennemary · 14/11/2013 11:19

I know. I was kind of being tongue in cheek. But I did nag at DH for ages to move to a nicer area. And he did in the end and now agrees it was a good idea. Because I knew it would be a good idea in the long term even though it was more travelling to work for both of us and so on. But better schools and lots of other advantages.

Original poster

LibraryBook · 14/11/2013 19:04

We are supposed to be going away alone for my birthday next weekend (first ever weekend away together without children) and I'm dreading it. As this impasse is the elephant in the room. Ugh.

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DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 14/11/2013 19:36

Cabrinha said,
Perhaps if he heard "I want to do something more interesting with our money" he'd get enthused and even have ideas? Or specifically if he heard "I'd like to raise £XK to follow this opportunity" he'd be more open to talking about it?

If he isn't tempted by something he'd enjoy that would be too extravagant in your current circumstances, but perfectly affordable if you were to move and no longer have a mortgage, perhaps take a different tack. Suggest to him he use the money for good works, eg set up a scholarship fund, to memorialise himself or a family member, thereby not lavishing it on himself, if that is alien to him. That might appeal to him more than a holiday home or something to do with his hobby.

Original poster

LibraryBook · 15/11/2013 13:00

Donkey - he would be far too careful to give his money away to a good cause.

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Joysmum · 15/11/2013 13:57

Have you a really hood heart to heart. Explained that you'd like more in your day to day life to make you happy and how you see the bad expense of your house as being a barrier to that. What does he say? You are both entitled to have different opinions but the important thing is to find out why so you can find some middle ground.

MadBusLady · 15/11/2013 14:11

Much as it may be poor form, I think logically your view should prevail. You clearly view your finances as separate and I assume he is on the same page in this.

You need to unfreeze your assets, he doesn't.

The act of unfreezing them will cause him some harm, in that he'll have to move, which is a hassle (I am assuming that the new place will be to his liking, meets his hobby needs, in the same area, etc).

The act of not unfreezing them causes you potentially a great deal of harm, if it stops you being able to move on to the next phase in your life, whatever you decide that might be. He may not be acknowledging this if he does not usually make the connection between spending money and personal development.

So it strikes me the greater harm is caused by remaining with the status quo. That is an open-ended harm to you, whereas the harm caused to him is time-limited and specific.

Have you explored the selling-him-a-tranche option? What does he think about that?

Original poster

LibraryBook · 15/11/2013 18:28

Joysmum - It isn't a case of a less expensive house making me happy, but rather a less expensive house not causing any hardship (to any of us whatsoever) and giving me a lot more freedom, economically and otherwise. It seems a very sensible option to me.

MadBusLady - I agree. Thank you so much for saying all of that.

OP posts:

Joysmum · 15/11/2013 18:51

Ah, but then I see my house as my home, not just a house. I love my home, it's perfect for us imo and took ages to renovate.

If I weren't spending on clothes or living an expensive day to day existence but hubby was and wanted to move to spend more still, I'd be questioning it.

I'm not having a go btw, just trying to relate what your saying to our situation and wondering how we would both feel to see if it might help you with your negotiations to find a way you'll both be happy

Hope you find a way. We are both firm believers in living for now having lost MIL at only 55 and FIL now in the stage stage of dementia so living a full life is important to both of us and something I'd like to think you could have too, even though I don't know you!

Original poster

LibraryBook · 15/11/2013 19:52

joysmum - I adore my house. It's been painstakingly renovated. But we can make the next house just as nice. I know we can.

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