I Am What I Am - Breaking out from enmeshed family dynamics

[DoYouEverFeelLikeAPlasticBag]

Having been through a difficult situation with my own family, the support on this thread has helped me to realize that I am part of a very co-dependent enmeshed family dynamic.

I am working on detaching from my sister, given her recent bad behaviour. My DM is putting huge pressure on me to forgive, forget and get back in my old role of underdog to save making waves.

An excellent post from LazyJaney has given me much food for thought - copied below:

"I think my family like the fact that we are considered a very close knit family, and that my Sis and I are considered 'best friends'. So part of it is about maintaining that perceived closeness. They have always been very proud of it.

My DM is worried about my Sis having no support, and is leaning on me to give that to her"

I think this is the top level explanation, but IMO there is something else underneath it. This is just my view of course, but in essence I think your approval is essential for their dynamic to function.

I think something like this is going on:

- DSis is the Prodigal Daughter. She was once the Golden Girl and has been indulged all her time as golden girl and has grown into a selfish, headstrong, and error prone woman.

- For some time it's been clear she is very tarnished, even to your parents, as they have had to bail her out more than once (as a matter of interest was she both parents' golden girl, or just one?)

- Your parents know all this (or maybe just your DM, your DF so far comes over as very ineffectual), and are very worried about your sister's future, but cannot directly face up to it without admitting all sorts of other past errors.

(I wouldnt be surprised if they are also burned out by her dramas, and want to offload some of the burden)

- You on the other hand are succeeding. You can help.

- But that is not in their narrative, and threatens it.

- They feel if they can strap you closely to her then you can help "save" her. Otherwise all the responsibility falls on them. As a bonus harnessing you brings you back into the narrative in the assigned role, and reduces the painful comparison.

Your fitting in with the solution/story they have woven is thus absolutely essential to your parents (DM especially?) as otherwise, you are saying their little empress has no clothes and that you are not prepared to be yoked to her. This means all the responsibility for DSis' failures falls back on them, and they have to face up to the unfaceable.

In short, without your collaboration, the whole thing will fall apart. I can't tell whether DM or DF calls the tune, but DM is definitely the one leading the dance. I bet DM also worries DSis is on a train wreck trip with OM, exH, kids etc.

So, that's why there is the immense pressure on you to conform right now.

IMO it actually puts you in a position of more power than you think. IMO your DM is very manipulative, but is becoming more desperate as you slip away. I think you can start to put conditions on what your support looks like, but it will be breaking a lifetimes habituation.

Anyway, treat the reasoning as cod psychology from another Internet random, but I think my main point - they need you desperately to hold the edifice up - is correct.

I hope we can continue the discussion here

My parents and sister have now gone into 'super nice overdrive'

I saw them all this week, and they seem to have taken that as an indication that everything is OK, all is forgiven, hooray!

I was at my parents for a family occasion, then my Sis called her StbexH and told him to come over. It sounded like he was a bit reluctant on the phone, so she was short with him "well come or don't it's up to you" then exclaimed "Huh, don't know what's got into him, he's in a right strop"..... is she really that deluded? Her poor DH was reluctant to come to his parent-in-law's house and play happy families, knowing that we all knew about her affair and didn't tell him - and she blames him for being stroppy?! I had to bite my tongue at that point, I just stared at my DM with this face expecting her to put her DD straight. She didn't. DBiL came, bless him, and was his usual lovely self. That just feeds my parents view that 'Everything is OK'.

My sister has been messaging me suddenly trying to be supportive of me with my health issues and TTC. This made me feel a little sick really - like a little 'concern' for me can drag me back into the fold - where was that concern last week, or the week before? Either she's still feeling desperately in need of support herself, and feels that being nice to me will encourage me to reciprocate OR she's feeling guilty about the way I've been treated. Dunno really.

My DM on the other hand is in serious overdrive, to the point where it's a bit cringeworthy. "OOh you can come for dinner, oooh that would be lovely, how are you anyway?". I can't bring myself to be anything other than civil to her at the moment - she screamed down the phone at me, called me jealous and bitter less than a week ago FFS, and is now acting like that never happened.

I fell into the trap briefly this week - I'm dropping my dog off with them tomorrow, so my DM invited my Sis, the DCs AND the StbExH over to join us again (!!). Then declared she wouldn't have time to make any food. So I suggested takeaway - so they suggested I pick it up (I'll be passing the shops on the way, so it really is easier for me to do it). Then they said we would have to eat by xxx time because of some complicated reasons, so I would have to rush with DP straight after work.... I agreed to all of this.

I got home, explained the convoluted, complicated arrangements to DP and he said "Fuck that, I'm not doing that. If you want to, you can, but leave me at home. Or you can just say No".

So that's what I did - called my parents, told them it really wasn't convenient and they would have to eat without us if they insisted on doing it that way. DM relented, said they will re arrange to accommodate us. So DP and I are going for dinner tonight.

I feel a little disingenuous (and unfair to myself) that I'm being nice and normal after the way my DM last spoke to me. But I don't know that demanding an apology will achieve anything other than dragging it all up again. So I think I'm just putting on a brave face while knowing inside that things have changed. As many of you have wisely said - I can't change them or their attitude, I can only change how I respond to it.

God another essay - sorry everyone!

I have also been chatting more to DSiL by email (people keep asking why it's all done by messaging, and not in person or on the phone - I'm really not a phone person, and DSiL has 2 young children so I don't like to impose. I never phone anyone, and had never really been as close to her as I am now, so I just prefer messaging really.)

She said she felt a little hurt at our mutual friend telling her to get over it. So I told her that our friend is probably projecting her own, very different affair, onto this one. She is not aware of the nastiness and hurt it has caused, so she can't understand.

I asked her whether she had actually argued with my Sis over this - she says she hasn't, but she has been avoiding her (i wasn't sure because of the twisting I've been hearing from my family). So that makes my DF's declaration that we were 'shitty' with sis even more unreasonable and completely untrue.

I reassured DSiL that I'm completely behind her and don't blame her at all for being angry. She said she felt reassured to know that she's not losing her head

This whole nasty affair has affected so many people, and more yet to come (OMs DW, DCs, family) it just makes me so sad.

Do the dog thing, then cut them all dead.

Best revenge is served cold. It'll pole-axe them! :)

Sorry OP, you did the wrong thing with the song and dance around the food, the correct thing was to not have agreed to all the complex rigmarole in the first place and just dropped the dog.

Everything you need go know about DSis and DM is in that vignette with getting the Ex to come around.

Tonight they will cook up 101 more reasons for you to see them, and put you under pressure to commit to those.

Agreed, the poor old ex is now just a pawn in the game.

How deeply odd - to invite people over and then announce you don't have time to cook (WTF is she doing all day) but then not suggest the takeaway herself. She's the host, it's up to her to sort out her guests, not you!

I think that was the top of the slippery slope - you felt obliged to fall into the role of family fixer and come up with a solution that then put all the work and inconvenience on to you, and left you having to challenge or be put upon. You must stop trying to fix things for these people.

Lazyjaney's right - tonight they will invent reasons connected with the children, since they are your weak point, to make it impossible for you to disconnect without actively being rude. Now they're all being as nice as pie it makes it impossible for you to withdraw without being rude, whereas if you'd done it in the middle of a row it would at least have been a natural evolution of the current situation.

Plus this is what they always do - the cracks must be papered over as soon as humanly possible, and then any attempt to uncover them again is met with the 'raking over old coals' accusation. You can't win with them.

You really, really need some time apart to get some perspective.

It's ok to be rude. The sky won't fall in. Practise some 'self-care': doing what is best for you, finally factoring your interests into decision-making. Your family are not used to it and won't like it, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.

How deeply odd - to invite people over and then announce you don't have time to cook

aahh ticks so many boxes. I used to get this with MIL. We once turned up to a family lunch we had been invited to only to find that SILs mates had dropped in briefly so they all had the lunch with them. When we turned up at the agreed time MIL (an inch from my face) said 'I don't know what you're going to eat'. Me neither luv.

brass, were you tempted to say 'too right, we'll be off now to the nearest cafe, see ya'?

I wish we had. Instead I was stunned into silence. No surprise we are NC now.

Hard to believe you didn't want another few rounds of that sort of treatment

OMG, I am exhausted, I've just read the whole thread.

How do you survive all this, OP??? One drama after another.

Plastic said So I know that cutting down contact helps. I just need to let go of the need to change their opinion - they believe my Sis is not that bad, and I'm to blame for our rift. Once I stop caring what they think, and accept I will never change their views, I can move on

How do I do that

I want to say that I think you are wrong here and that DPs believe that Sis is bad, that she is making a mess of her life, but.... they cannot admit the fact. Not to anyone. And possibly they know full well that you are not to blame for any rift but....... if they don't blame you, OP, they have to admit that they have produced Sis who is selfish, immature and causing mayhem in the lives of those around her, and they can't face that (for some mysterious reason, possibly due to something that happened in Sis's childhood or in DP's childhoods that caused this insecurity).

If you can accept that DPs really do not think DSis is perfect and do not in all honesty think you are the baddie in all this (but they are in denial of the truth) you can stop trying to force them to speak the truth - because they actually do know what is the truth, but can't face or find the courage to say it.

But I wanted to post because we had a ridiculous dynamic in my family with DM supporting my 'unlucky' DB through money problems, broken marriages, fall outs with his adult DCs, etc, my DSis and I were embroiled with DM in trying to 'help' fix DBs problems. How many hours of wasted debate, worry, stress and angst we went through over the years I hate to think.
But the point I want to make is that once I took a step back from supporting DB and refused to get embroiled and DB had to stop his dependence on everyone pandering to him our relationships all improved. He became better company instead of just a drain on emotions, DM relaxed and had time for the rest of the family, I had a weight lifted from my shoulders (could for once just worry about my own problems instead of everyone else's as well) and we were all happier. So if you can 'step back' OP it might just improve things for everyone and not just yourself.

Don't know if I explained that properly, the point was that if one person changes their behavior the whole family dynamic changes (hopefully for the better).

I am really glad your DP put his foot down over the convoluted dinner arrangements! How did the rearranged dinner plans go?

Your sister is astounding - I cannot believe that she forced your poor BIL to join the family gathering you describe upthread. I really feel for him (and for you, of course).

The reason I asked some questions upthread about your family's attitude to socialising outside the family was that I was trying to compare your relationship with them to a similar family situation (my best friend who lives in my hometown), as I moved away from my family so have a different set-up. My friend lives near both her parents and PIL, and they are close eg: has been on holiday with PIL, her mum helps out with childcare, she and her younger sister are close.

I think the main difference is that my friend's family aren't her primary 'social network' - her friends are, while you seem to have your family as your primary social network (in part because of your parents' insistance that you and your sister are seen to be close).

I agree with a previous poster that it is unfortunate you weren't able to make a 'clean break' after the argument on the phone with your parents - it has given the impression that you are fine with them treating you this way. It's understandable, though, as you're trying to break the habit of a lifetime.

Your sister and your mother both seem to be drama llamas, and it's interesting that once you started backing away they made more of an effort with you! I think that in some ways, this means that not making that clean break is better - there would have been lots of drama trying to pull you back in, while this way you could just continue your previous stance of distancing slowly - finding someone else to take the dog, dropping out of your weekly social group, responding to overly-emotional texts calmly as you did to your sister...

I did laugh a bit at your sister's statement about loving you unconditionally - I love my sisters unconditionally (if they murdered someone, I'd assume they'd done it for the right reasons), but I'd never feel the need to say that to them!

Disclaimer: I don't really think my sisters would ever murder someone :)

Well the drama seems to have reached its inevitable conclusion for my sister. Her OM has called it off, he has told his wife and she has forbidden any contact with my sister (good for her)..

So my DM has just told me this, and said "Sis is at her friends house because she has no one else". Red rag to a bull I'm afraid - I said she is only in that position because she cut me and her BF out, and I'm not sure that her friend is the best person to be with right now since she was previously encouraging my sis to 'fight for the love of her life'. My DM said "Well all she needs is sympathy now, and her (new) friend is the only one who is giving her that". I said that she didn't want our sympathy when things were going well for her, and this is the consequence of her cutting us out. I said once more that all of this is my sister's doing, and is in no way my fault or her BFs fault. Once more, I feel my DM is blaming me for not 'supporting her' and now the real hour of need is upon her, the spotlight is well and truly on us all.

I said it was a good thing that the OM had finished with her, it was absolutely the best outcome for her (I really believe that, I'm not being nasty) But my DM is once more twisting the truth to fit her version of events.

I said "Well, he values his marriage more than my Sis", to which my DM said "Oh no, it's just that he has a child, and his wife has put her foot down, he has no choice"... I said "Errr, Sis has 2 children. she still chose him"... DM said "No. She had already decided to end her marriage before he came along". NO SHE HADNT!!! I said that DM was re-writing history once more, that my Sis was unhappy in her marriage but in no way had it ended before she had an affair. My DM cut the conversation off, said she wouldn't discuss it and put the phone down.

My parents are determined to twist the truth to fit with their idea that My Sis hasn't done anything wrong, and that the OM is wonderful and it's his evil wife that is stopping love's young dream (how dare she stop her husband seeing his girlfriend eh!).

Now, I have a dilemma. I love my sister, and I don't want her to suffer. I know what it feels like to be dumped, and you need your family and friends around you at all times. She has been there for me when I needed her, and I want to be there for her. I have sent her a message inviting her over here, and asking if there's anything I can do. She won't take me up on my offer, I know that.

However, I now have to go and pick up my dog, from my parents, right in the middle of this giant shit storm.

I will be accused of 'not being sympathetic' if I dare to speak my mind. I am determined to stand my ground on this - I will reiterate that I am there for her if she needs me, but that she must accept what I have to say if she wants my support.

Wish me luck......

If you can accept that DPs really do not think DSis is perfect and do not in all honesty think you are the baddie in all this (but they are in denial of the truth) you can stop trying to force them to speak the truth - because they actually do know what is the truth, but can't face or find the courage to say it your post was really interesting DozeyDoris

I will try and believe that they are in denial of the truth, as that would help stop me feeling the need to force them to acknowledge the truth - as I just have in my example above. HOwever, it's really hard when they continue to blame me "YOU'RE not supporting her" - I just feel the need to defend myself.

I need to stick to my principles, know I'm doing the right thing, and try not to care about what my parents think of what I'm doing. Today will be a big test of that.

Please write a big notice with non-committal phrases like 'I don't want to talk about it any more' and 'I have nothing to say about it really' and post it up by your phone. Or at the very least, have a piece of paper saying 'Don't engage!' next to the phone.

It' is a shame you've got to go and get the dog today. I think realistically your DM is going to blame you again, possibly your DF too, possibly in very angry and accusatory ways. I also think the absolute best thing is just to shrug it off. Don't accept it, but don't argue back. She goes on, you say, 'Well, there we are. Thanks so much for having the dog. Bye.' Or similar.

You can't talk your way out of being blamed, remember. Reality is too uncomfortable, they are fixated on making it a problem that you have to fix.

I'm sorry, but I think you've got over involved again. It would have been better if you'd just said something 'neutral' like 'Well, that was always the risk of being involved with a married man' and not got into justifying why he's done the right thing. When your mother started going on about your sister's lack of support, you should have said something along the lines of 'of course she can always talk to me' and said you'll contact her soon. Your mother shouldn't need to manage your relationship with your sister and relay messages!

Fully endorse what others are saying about neutral phrases. You are on a hiding to nothing with your parents when it comes to apportioning any blame on your sis.

Have to agree, I think you're still way too enmeshed in it all, you don't need to be involved.

Do not discuss it with your parents, at all. Change the subject, or leave.

You don't need to message your sister. If she wants your support, she'll come to you.

Disengage, and keep your sanity

YOU'RE not supporting her really means you're not joining us in our little fantasy world around our poor unlucky DD.

There is no way you are ever going to choose to join them in this fantasy world so just don't respond. When they list DD's misfortune, just nod but don't waste time arguing. They won't change because you point things out.

Perhaps if you take a step back they will up their attempts to bring you on board, but if you stick firm at not having debates and discussions with DM then eventually they will do it less. If there is no one around that they feel they must persuade to their way of thinking (ie you OP) then they might just do it less. DD has had a hard lesson in life, although she won't admit her mistakes she might change her behaviour in the future.

Take a step back and just watch from the sidelines. Things might improve without you being dragged into it.

i don't know where to start love.

Your sister is owed NOTHING. She has been fucking someone elses H, your entire family have rallied round her, protecting her at every turn and making YOU the bad guy in the process.

They have had you dancing to their tune, insulting you and your own family by refusing to respect you or listen to you, refusing to actually host you properly and STILL now are writing history to make you look the bitch in all this.

Stand back? Fucking EMIGRATE love!

You are in a totally fucked up family. Your sister has only ever been there for you as it makes her feel better about herself, she's there to point score and gloat, or run YOU down to her parents.

You need to STOP talking to EVERYONE in that shit family and focus on the ONE person that IS there for you, your DP.

Collect the dogs and tell them to go fuck themselves leave it at that, don't call them, don't return calls, don't answer them. Let christmas come and go and see how you feel in the New Year. Send presents to your DN if need be, but fuck the rest.

"I want to say that I think you are wrong here and that DPs believe that Sis is bad, that she is making a mess of her life, but.... they cannot admit the fact. Not to anyone. And possibly they know full well that you are not to blame for any rift but....... if they don't blame you, OP, they have to admit that they have produced Sis"

I must admit I thought the same, but the OPs recent posts make me wonder if they are in such very deep denial they are just unable to admit she is bad, so when someone else holds up a mirror and forces out the contradictions and they have to kick out and/or shut down. Even worse if it's people "in the circle" like OP, so the reaction is worse.

OP nothing you do will ever make your parents agree with you, but note the impact your disagreeing and withdrawing is having, they are desperate to get you on board. That means you have influence.

I think stick to your guns, and play the tough love card - reiterate the damage your sister has done to others and still needs sorting, point out their responsibility - that unless they step up to the mark here your Sis will just ricochet from one disaster to another, and use their ensuing denial as a reason to add distance for yourself

"Now, I have a dilemma. I love my sister, and I don't want her to suffer. I know what it feels like to be dumped, and you need your family and friends around you at all times. She has been there for me when I needed her, and I want to be there for her"

You've done your job, just tell your DM you've offered support but your sister wants to wallow in her self made bed and be told she is right, rather than actually step up to her responsibilities and sort herself out.

Well that was interesting

Went to my parents - Sis was there. Best outcome really, because rather than rely on hearsay, my parents got to see and hear for themselves how I have been reacting to her.

Despite that, DF almost what Eldritch predicted and tried to blame me before I'd even walked in the door. He warned me that she was in bits, and said "Don't be horrible to her, don't be nasty just be a sister to her".. as though anticipating I would be the horrible monster they have all decided I am. I said "Don't be ridiculous. Just stop this now" and ignored him (yay for me!)

My Sister is indeed in bits, and I listened, hugged her and was supportive. My DM actually said a few times (in a 'surprised' tone, or did I imagine that?) - "Plastic is giving you good advice here, she's right, listen to her". I felt like saying "THIS is how I've always been, when you've accused me of being unsupportive" So I was so pleased that they saw me doing, and being, and saying what I've always done without the opportunity for someone to twist it to make me out to be the bad guy.

I was a little hard with my sis - told her that she just needed to accept the OM's viewpoint on this now, he has chosen to save his marriage, and she should focus on herself. She didn't like that much, but still no one could construe that as anything other than constructive support. Her BF and DSil have been messaging her trying to support her, and she is ignoring them. When she mentioned this, DF steps in with "Oh just IGNORE them" because he believes they have wronged my sister by being pissed off with her behaviour. She has turned to new friends, including a lovely friend who to this point was just a social friend, but she has been spending a lot of time with her offloading on her. Classic behaviour of someone who has burnt all her bridges with her true friends. Here, I'm afraid I got involved, defended our friends, and said they are good friends to my Sis, she needs them, and they are trying to support her (and was of course also implying that I am too). She replied "I already have VERY good friends thank you"..

So I said, "That's great, you'll need them" and left.

DM tried to go into damage limitation, and asked me to go for a walk with her and Sis, but I refused , said thanks for having the dog, and got the hell out of there.

I feel SO much better. I'm sad for my sis, and I'll be there for her if she needs me. But I'm so glad my parents got to witness me doing what I've always done, with no opportunity for misconstruing things, and no chance for them to have a go at me for not being supportive. And they also heard my sister's attitude to not needing her friends. Now its up to them to deal with the mess their DD has made - I feel proud that I've managed to stay relatively distant from the whole thing.

Why should you be sympathetic?

You really need to think about that. You need to back off big time, for your own sanity. Refuse to take part in their dramas.

You got sucked back in again. That was a mistake, but it's okay, stop now and start withdrawing again.
Fulfilling your family's role for you is a habit, that you need to break. It will be hard but start to retrain yourself. The less contact you have the easier it will be.

Try to take up some new interests so you just don't have time for them (so much). Of course emigrating is a good option too :)