I Am What I Am - Breaking out from enmeshed family dynamics

[DoYouEverFeelLikeAPlasticBag]

Having been through a difficult situation with my own family, the support on this thread has helped me to realize that I am part of a very co-dependent enmeshed family dynamic.

I am working on detaching from my sister, given her recent bad behaviour. My DM is putting huge pressure on me to forgive, forget and get back in my old role of underdog to save making waves.

An excellent post from LazyJaney has given me much food for thought - copied below:

"I think my family like the fact that we are considered a very close knit family, and that my Sis and I are considered 'best friends'. So part of it is about maintaining that perceived closeness. They have always been very proud of it.

My DM is worried about my Sis having no support, and is leaning on me to give that to her"

I think this is the top level explanation, but IMO there is something else underneath it. This is just my view of course, but in essence I think your approval is essential for their dynamic to function.

I think something like this is going on:

- DSis is the Prodigal Daughter. She was once the Golden Girl and has been indulged all her time as golden girl and has grown into a selfish, headstrong, and error prone woman.

- For some time it's been clear she is very tarnished, even to your parents, as they have had to bail her out more than once (as a matter of interest was she both parents' golden girl, or just one?)

- Your parents know all this (or maybe just your DM, your DF so far comes over as very ineffectual), and are very worried about your sister's future, but cannot directly face up to it without admitting all sorts of other past errors.

(I wouldnt be surprised if they are also burned out by her dramas, and want to offload some of the burden)

- You on the other hand are succeeding. You can help.

- But that is not in their narrative, and threatens it.

- They feel if they can strap you closely to her then you can help "save" her. Otherwise all the responsibility falls on them. As a bonus harnessing you brings you back into the narrative in the assigned role, and reduces the painful comparison.

Your fitting in with the solution/story they have woven is thus absolutely essential to your parents (DM especially?) as otherwise, you are saying their little empress has no clothes and that you are not prepared to be yoked to her. This means all the responsibility for DSis' failures falls back on them, and they have to face up to the unfaceable.

In short, without your collaboration, the whole thing will fall apart. I can't tell whether DM or DF calls the tune, but DM is definitely the one leading the dance. I bet DM also worries DSis is on a train wreck trip with OM, exH, kids etc.

So, that's why there is the immense pressure on you to conform right now.

IMO it actually puts you in a position of more power than you think. IMO your DM is very manipulative, but is becoming more desperate as you slip away. I think you can start to put conditions on what your support looks like, but it will be breaking a lifetimes habituation.

Anyway, treat the reasoning as cod psychology from another Internet random, but I think my main point - they need you desperately to hold the edifice up - is correct.

I hope we can continue the discussion here

"Yes I'll be there. Yes both DF and DM hurt me very much last night. I'm upset at being blamed for something that is not my fault, and because of that I need space from everyone for a while"

Please, please don't send this. It would be entirely OK not to respond at all. If you need to respond, just 'See you then, am looking forward to seeing my nieces' will do.

What you are suggesting gives them more info with which to feed the drama and manipulate you.

It's so hard, but can you practice just talking about inoffensive non-personal topics - the weather, what the nieces have done in the week, what you are cooking for dinner. As soon as you talk about your feelings you open yourself up to being shat on by them as they don't care about your feelings really, only that you feel what the family rules say.

Oh and definitely do not tell them you need space. This will only guarantee they are round your house and calling you all hours of the night so you have less space than you have now.

If you want space, you don't need their permission or acknowledgement, you just take it.

Thanks everyone - I replied "Yes I'll be there for DN, what time?" - she was probably a bit shocked that I didn't respond to her 'apology'.

If it wasn't for your advice, I probably would have gone with the more emotionally involved response above, and got into a discussion about it - but of course you are all correct in saying that only continues to feed the drama. So I resisted, and I'm glad I did. It's over and done with now.

I'm not worried about seeing them all - they're very good at pretending everything is fine and ignoring the issues. I'll do that too, no problem.

Once this week is over, I won't have any further obligations to see them all, other than the once a week social event that we all go to (god this makes it sound like we belong to a cult - we don't, it's a really normal social thing that we all go to. Difficult to explain without outing myself any further)

I'm trying to decide whether to take a step back from that too - but since it's the only time I see some of my friends, I'm not sure. I also feel that DSil needs support, and I don't want to desert her. I think she needs us to get back to normal as well.

God, just seeing the latest from the Philippines on the news - puts my silly little problems into perspective.

I also feel that DSil needs support

But it's not your job! These endless bloody requirements of support! Who the hell is supporting you at the moment? Not this lot. And bear in mind she's not your SIL, just a distant relative by several marriages, one of which is now over. I appreciate she is a friend as well but you are not responsible for her. She made her own (poor) choices and has her own path to walk.

I'm sure your friends will understand if you need to take a few weeks off from the thing. Give yourself some breathing space. You cannot get back to the 'normal' as it was before - you need to make a new normal.

You're right Trib - DSiL has her head screwed on properly and she would completely understand.

I don't intend to do a 'grand announcement' that I'm quitting, as my sister did, only to return in less than a week. I'll just take each week as it comes. I have another city break lined up this weekend (this time with DP ) so that solves this week's dilemma.

I'll worry about it next week.

And I'll stop worrying about supporting other people, and think about myself. I need to give myself some TLC too.

A New Normal. I like the sound of that.

A new normal sounds great. also you can always spend time with your SIL just the two of you. Go out for coffee or something. You don't have to drop her just because you're stepping back from your bonkers parents and sister.

"Once this week is over, I won't have any further obligations to see them all, other than the once a week social event that we all go to"

I think you will find they will continually try and suck you in, if not this then that etc.

IMO your DM is totally, completely out of order and - if it were me - I'd probably have nothing to say to her or DF until some form of serious apology was forthcoming.

I'm also forming a view that she and your DSis are cut from the same cloth as far as being drama llamas is concerned, so I think you're not going to get any real respite until you make the ties to both on your terms.

Also seems like you may want to draw on your friends but outside of this social event as your family will use it as a tool to draw you in.

Do you have a natural friendship with DSil, she may be someone to keep in contact with for mutual support/keeping your family's yarn spinning under control.

Once this week is over - def stand down from the social club. Don't tell them you are doing so; when they notice you are not there they will phone to ask why. You need stock answers to that, so that they cannot accuse you of 'making your point' by not being there with 'the whole united family.'

Sonething like - you want to spend more time with dp; you have taken up a hobby/bookclub/adult education/... Anything that is weekly.

Don't tell them it's because of all this, as you will then need to 'justify' your actions/non-actions.

And see your other friends and SIL outside ofthe club.

Thanks everyone - it really sound like we're in a weird cult doesn't it! It's really normal, just can't explain on here for fear of outing myself!!

I'm not going to make any rash decisions, but just see how things go this week. But I am worried that if I don't take a stand against how my DM treated me, she will forget and think it's OK.

I just feel emotionally knackered and can't face another battering. The only way I can avoid that is to avoid them isn't it.

How did this happen? My Sister decided to have an affair with a married man, lie to everyone, attack anyone who told her she was wrong, refuse to tell her DH until she was outed by a friend. All along I've tried to be there for my parents, and been there for my Sis if she wanted me - but she cut me out for being straight with her and standing by my principles.

And now, Sis is being fully supported in all her selfish decisions, no judgement, rewriting what happened to make it look ok, they're even sympathetic to her pining for the OM, and making excuses for the fact that he hasn't left his wife (it's the wife's fault you see). Meanwhile I've been cut out, attacked by my Sis, and finally attacked by my parents for being honest.

So my sis fucks up her life and shits on everyone - and I end up on the outside considering going NC with my family, and leaving my social circle to save myself.

How did this happen?

Op, this is a long hard road to tread, I feel for you.

These people thrive off drama and conflict, they don't know any other way. Why? Because their own company and stillness scares them. They feel empty.

Try strict boundaries, it may work. I did with my own dysfunctional family for a while. But after a long time they still managed to wind me in again. It was the last drama for me. I did send a letter (this has pitfalls I know) but it was short and stated my position clearly. I have been no contact for a while now.

I feel free and it's wonderful. But there has to be acceptance they won't change or be sorry. That is hard.

I read exstensively around the subject and had counselling. I'm still on the journey but you can find peace from this I promise you. Keep posting. Remember you have a gift that they don't, insight.

Best of luck

A dysfunctional family operates very much like a cult OP.

Fear, brainwashing, rewriting history. All the tricks in the book.

Remember you have a gift that they don't, insight ... and MN!!

At least I hope they don't have MN ... I live in fear of my Sis finding this thread, hence the change from the old thread which had a very obvious title which she might have spotted if she had the inclination to come here for support.

How do other people feel about posting personal problems and the risk of outing on MN? I would be mortified if anyone in RL knew about this thread.

I love the way the blame has now been pinned on the OM's wife. Yeah, how very bloody unreasonable of her to stand in the way of Love's Young Dream! How dare she think that actually being married to this man might give her a reason to prefer him not to be shagging someone else.

This is a startling example of doublethink and perhaps an insight into the fact that whatever you do, however hard you try to hold the moral high ground, they will choose to rewrite history and argue black is white, if you challenge the hierarchy.

How did this happen? You had a defined role to play within the family dynamic. It was uncomplainingly last place, providing uncritical support and a chorus of approval. You have chosen not to do that this time, so you must be punished. Just as you were punished when you chose to move (slightly) away to live with your DP.

You are not meant to be having feelings and thoughts and wishes of your own, you are only there to serve the narrative of the close knit family, who back each other no matter what.

Whether you take a stand against your DM or not, she is likely to choose to forget and rewrite history. But you will feel better if you haven't just swallowed this bitterness and hurt like all the rest, and have actually done something about it. Your DP is amazingly tolerant to even consider having dinner with them after they've treated you - I suspect because he wants you to take the lead in defining your future relationship with them, so you don't feel like he's influenced you into distancing yourself from your family.

A good analysis Trib - I keep going back to some of the amazing words of wisdom on this thread to help me understand the situation.

You're absolutely right about my role in the family. It must be incredibly jarring (and 'Jealous and bitter' in my DMs eyes) to see me NOT following the 'close family' script.

I've just had a message from DSiL - I was giving her some space as I didn't want to keep reminding her of the situation. It sounds like she's feeling much the same as me (but for different reasons I guess). She said she had a long chat with a mutual friend, who was very sensible about the whole thing, and was trying to kindly tell her to get a grip as all my sis has done is fall in love - these things happen, etc etc. But DSiL says it's not that simple for her.

She is hurt, as I am, by my sister's attitude, lying and pressure. I told her a little of the family dynamic I'm dealing with and how I'm struggling with being made the scapegoat. I want her to feel that I'm here for her and will not be putting pressure on her to 'just get over it' as my parents have done to me.

Hopefully, she and I can come to a resolution where we feel happier and stronger, re-engage with the social group but remain disengaged from the affair and nasty manipulation.

I feel better to know that she is feeling the same as me - kind of proves to me that I am right to feel upset by this, and that it's not just because I'm a bad person, as my DM wants me to believe. Of course, my DMs analysis of DSiL's sitation has been that she is "emotionally unstable" (she really isn't), so knowing she and I are on the same page can hopefully help us both see that we can't BOTH be wrong.

"How do other people feel about posting personal problems and the risk of outing on MN? I would be mortified if anyone in RL knew about this thread."

'Those who matter don't mind, and those who mind don't matter.'

Reaching out to other people is a strength, and anyone who would begrudge you support in dealing with such a difficult situation, is not worth your time.

If you are worried about being outed, there are other solutions around this.

What other solutions are there to being outed Tenacity?

I haven't put anything identifying on here, so the only way someone would recognize me on this thread is if they knew a lot about the situation in the first place - i.e. my DM, Sis, or DSiL. If they did recognize themselves, well they might learn something (or if it were DSiL - she might gain support too)

I have NC'd for this thread, so I still post on MN elsewhere under another name, so anything identifying doesn't appear as PlasticBag

So I suppose I just have to know that those who matter don't mind.

Your DP is amazingly tolerant to even consider having dinner with them after they've treated you - I suspect because he wants you to take the lead in defining your future relationship with them, so you don't feel like he's influenced you into distancing yourself from your family.

Yes he is very tolerant and wise - and has said that he wants me to make my own decisions and not influence me. But he has started saying "Just stay away from them for a bit and give yourself some space"

I predict that sometime in the near future, my family will blame my DP for influencing me and 'taking me away' from them. In fact, I would be amazed if this does not happen.

My family accused me of turning my dh against them!

In their mind he thought they were wonderful and he was only doing my bidding because i'm that manipulative.

It's amazing what these people can rewrite, twist and warp to suit their own narrative.

It really is doublethink. On a much bigger scale, it's how whole populations can be gaslighted.

Some of these people, the main players in dysfunctional families, are mini despots. They want absolute control over their little kingdom i.e. The family.

It's such personalities, on the more extreme end of the spectrum, that if given power cause devastation.

Some good books to read are Jeanette Winterston Why Be Happy When You Could Be Normal. Janice Galloway memoirs.

Also films Animal Kingdom and The Fighter portray the cold eyed Matriarch

I must say I'm not impressed with DSILs mutual friend saying that your sister hasn't done anything wrong - I would think that most people would agree that cheating on your spouse is wrong!

I think you handled the conversation where your mother accused you of not speaking to your sister (on bonfire night) well - not getting pulled into drama about why had she said that, what had she said to your parents etc, you just said that you were speaking to her.

You do seen very involved 'socially' with your family - have they ever been negative about you socialising with other people outside the family and the group you all attend?

You mentioned on your previous thread that your DP wasn't close to his family. Did you mean they aren't close, or just that they're less involved with each others lives than your family is. For example, I talked to my sister last week, and it was the first time I'd spoken to her in about two months (though there had been a few texts and we keep in touch on Facebook). This doesn't mean we're not close, just that we're busy!

I would second everyone's suggestions of detaching and being less involved - it sounds very suffocating (and, between the village, the social group everyone attends, and your overbearing family, just a bit Royston Vasey :) )

Our mutual friend met her own DH while she was still married to someone else... so she's a little biased. She has said that 'all my Sis has done is fall in love'... In addition another pair of close friends of my DPs also met when one of them was with someone else, and have been blissfully happily married for 25 years. So I think my parents viewpoint is coloured by their friend's experiences. So they say "Well, no, having an affair isn't right, but we just want her to be happy and in love" - and I think that's what our mutual friend has said too.

But again, I think some separation is needed between the affair (no, it's not right, but yes these things do happen) and how my Sis and OM have dealt with the affair (the lying, pressure, spite and double crossing on my Sis's part - the parading himself in front of us all, refusing to leave his DW on the OM's part)

Re the social group - no, my parents aren't negative about me socializing elsewhere, although I think I mentioned on my other thread that my sister put huge pressure on me not to move in with my DP (30 mins away) because I'd be leaving our village. And yes, I am fully aware it sounds like Royston Vasey, you're not the first person to note that!!

RE my DPs family - no they're not very close, but his circumstances are unusual. But your point about being close without being in constant touch is interesting - My Sister and I always used to remark on families like this, thinking that they weren't close and were missing out. How wrong I was!!!

It's a good point - my mum and I used to talk several times a day and it was toxic and suffocating.

Now we talk 2-3 x a week, see each other about every 6 weeks and it's great.

My DH feels he is very close to his DB and DSis - but he might only see them 2-3 x a year and definitely wouldn't socialize with them. None of them feel they are missing out, they feel they have a great family which helped launch them into adult life to make families of their own.

You have some so far! You are stronger than you think.

For some reason your sister making a massive declaration about loving you unconditionally has really pissed me off. I would put my best cake on her saying it to you only because she wants you to say it to her. Manipulative madam.

People who actually love you unconditionally almost never feel the need to declare it, in my view. They just get on and do it.

Also, people who expect unconditional love should not so completely challenge it.

It is more brainwashing, Plastic, sorry.

Well done on moving to your DP's house and breaking out of their "template for living" they had you stuffed into. When they drive through your village and not stop, I'd have a smile on my face. You do not want them in your sanctuary and they are obliging!