Planning to split up with my alcoholic partner but filled with doubt and guilt

[SuperAmoo]

Hello all, I've been with my partner for 12 years now. And it's only just becoming apparent that he's an alcoholic. He's not a falling down type. He works full time. He only drinks in the evenings. But he drinks every night until he's drunk and then goes to sleep. And he smokes about 4-5 joints a day. I feel like I'm being SO unreasonable splitting up with him. I've been wanting to split up since the day he moved in - but it's taken me 12 years to feel strong enough to split up. But we have a 4 and a 7 year old together. The second I think of them and how much this will damage them, I just feel like, no matter how much I want to split up, no matter how miserable I am, this just isn't bad enough to justify ruining their lives. They're both such sensitve girls - the elder one has a terrible temper and gets angry really easily and the younger one can burst into tears when something even slightly goes wrong. But I don't think that's got anything to do with my relationship because from the outside there is NOTHING wrong. It's just me that's miserable. But I keep it all in. I'm not cross with them. I am pretty happy really. My life is great apart from this problem. I take them all over the place doing lots of stuff and we have lots of friends. They don't see him drunk - he doesn't fall down. He might sway abit but that's it. But I've worked my arse off with my own business for the past 18 months only to discover that he's spent £3K on booze in 6 months and was hiding the credit card statements. Basically my business isn't that successful and he's drunk ALL the profit I worked so hard to earn. I also do 99% of all household chores and childcare. I confronted him yesterday, he said he was sorry but that he was planning to stop on Sunday because that's the day before his new job starts, and he got drunk tonight as usual. Even though I'd told him his behaviour had devastated me and he said he was 'sorry'. Isn't that abit..odd?

This is weird, your DP sounds like my alcy father. He went to work every day without fail, couldn't do a thing in the house, maybe make a cup of tea, was a useless father, did nothing with us DCs, never really spoke to us when I think about it, did no repairs, no gardening. He was also angry, bitter, unreasonable and selfish. However my DM stayed with him. This was the 1960s though and she didn't work and had nowhere to go.

Your DP could open a recipe book any day he chooses and follow the instructions if he wanted to cook.

If any of my adult DCs found themselves living with an alcoholic partner I really wouldn't rest until they had separated. I know it's just not worth someone else trying to fix their problem.

Thank you Venus. It makes it hard that he hasn't got anyone else. His only friend is an alcoholic too! And his family live far away and are totally messed up anyway. If only he had someone else I wouldn't feel so responsible I think. I think if he could put his point of view across he would say that I've shut him out of the children's lives, that I withdrew from him first. That I started it basically. And I think I did - gradually as I realised how emotionally stunted he was, how anxious, how angry and selfish and lazy, I withdrew more and more and took control of more and more things because I felt he wasn't trustworthy. The more I did everything, the more useless he felt/feels and the less he feels able to do. He really is at rock bottom emotionally - I've seen to that. With my doing everything and constant criticism - he must feel like he can't do anything right.

You probably won't believe this but, and I learned this relatively recently, my DM was advised, by the doctor where DF was being dried out, that if she left him he might stop drinking. Anyway she didn't so we'll never know.

It is a chicken and egg situation, what caused what, the drinking, the low self esteem, the depression who knows what came first. But I'm sure you are wrong to think it's all to do with you.

You didn't cause it. You can't control it. You can't cure it.

Even if your behaviour is part of the problem, doesn't that just make it even clearer that you aren't helping him? (in the long term with the stuff that really matters - obviously you 'help' him with the day to day things to keep him functioning) And that leaving will give him the opportunity to either carry on much as he is but with takeaways instead of home cooked meals, or to get genuine real help to get better. And either way you and the girls will be better off?

Forget about blame at the situation. No one here is in the "You made your bed, you lie in it" mentality. You are in a crap situation that's making you ill. Disregarding whose fault it is, what can you do to improve it? Because he's not capable of improving things for you and the girls at the moment or in the foreseeable future.

And you are likely to get more long lasting success by taking that step to ending the relationship, because tinkering at the edges of exactly how many drinks he has at each night, or whether he makes a clumsy attempt at trying to be a good dad, isn't going to be enough to make you all happy. Look after yourself and your DDs and give him the opportunity to stand up and look after himself.

Its not the sort of illness that you can stand by and support him through. His misery cannot forever make your happiness and freedom take a back seat. Its good that you want your children to learn kindness, but that isn't what this is. Enduring sexual contact you do not want is not a kindness to him, its an betrayl of you. There is being a loving generous person who gives what they can afford to, and there is standing still while someone robs you of the last of the most basic nourishment to keep you going. You will both end up crashing.

On flights during the safety demonstation, if the air supply is compromised, oxygen masks are released from the sealing. Passengers are advised to fit their own masks first before they help their neighbours, even if those are their children. The reason is that if you pass out from lack of oxygen, you are no use to anybody. Its not heroic to not look after yourself.

Its time to put on your oxygen mask. Save yourself, it will give you the strength to help others. Then save your daughters. Then, once you have secured your mental and physical safety, from a distance, you can point him in the direction of real support - AA, his GP, etc and he can find others I'm sure.

I think you need to let go of your huge sense of responsibility past, present and future for his behaviour. He has been vile and abusive towards you, at the very least he has not been a full and equal partner. He is not some child or pet that you are beholden to, he is an adult, and if he isn't capable of standing on his own two feet, he needs professional help. You did your best but it will never be enough for him.

You didn't cause it, you can't contol it, you can't cure it.

Obviously my long post was cross posted with many of yours, I shall go and catch up. Sorry if I've repeated anything or made mistakes.

Great post. Superamoo was going to bed.

Super, by staying you are teaching your DDs that their happiness does not matter. That their needs need not be fulfilled. That they exist only to enable the addict.

Just as you were taught.

See the business. If you didn't have to spend all your time and energy looking after him, do you think you might be able to cope with the business better? Certainly you could if he was a full partner who did his share of looking after the children, cooking meals and doing the housework - obviously this isn't an option you can magic up, but its worth bearing in mind that if he wasn't making life so blooming difficult it would be easier.

If he wasn't stealing your earnings and drinking them, maybe you could afford to pay someone to be a part time assistant, to take some of the admin things (like posting things) off your hands for a few hours a week, so that you could concentrate on the more creative or strategic elements of the business. Or maybe you could pay a cleaner or a babysitter for a few hours etc.

You know, if you seperate, it doesn't stop him from giving up the drink one day (with professional help?) and being a good dad when he sees his DDs. Obviously he might not, but then he might never stop drinking while you are with him either.

Good night, hope you feel better in the morning. xx

"How is that teaching them about compassion and about kindness to a fellow human being."

You're not being kind to anyone right now. You're actively supporting a lifestyle which allows him to continue his revolting behaviour which is damaging him as well as you and your children. It isn't kind to stay in a situation where you are constantly angry and repelled by him. I don't see kindness in your partnership on either side. It's built on abusiveness and totally pointless martyrdom.

Your children deserve compassion and kindness and a better than third-rate childhood.

Put them and you on the receiving end of your kindness. Any emotion you have is wasted on your husband because it means nothing to him and makes no difference to him.

OP, last week I kicked my dp of 12 years out. Our dd is 4 months. It was hard. It still is hard. But I got great support on here. One poster said that she was the child of an alcoholic, that I was doing the right thing, and that she wishes someone had looked after her. When it gets tough, I'm holding onto that.

DP is doing all he can to demonstrate he'll change. He's probably seeing more of DD now than he did when he lived with us - and he now lives over an hour away. He might now have the motivation to stop drinking. To be honest, the time apart has given me space to get really angry about all the lies and excuses I made up on his behalf, and all the miserable hours I spent waiting to see if he'd come home, and all the money I spent paying the bills whilst he was spending all his money on booze. I realise now I was facilitating his drinking. It might be too late for me and dp, but he can still have a good relationship with dd if he sorts himself out.

Of course I feel bad for dp. And I feel sad for my dreams of how dd would grow up with me and dp together. And I loved him for 12 years in spite of everything, so I'm mourning that too. But I am entirely certain that I did the right thing.

You will surprise yourself with how strong you are. And keep posting here. MN is fantastic support.

Those negative feelings you are having are in part your codependency, taking on all that responsibility for another person when you cannot control how they feel or behave, he has done all that on his own. You don't know whether he really feels all that uselessness or whether it is some guilt in you projecting on to him. Chances are he is not feeling anything, other than deep affection for a bottle of beer, and resentment at you for trying to stop him drinking.

Have you looked at therapy to help you with your codependency, or CoDA meetings? When I was in your situation I was told very frankly that if I were to stay in an alcoholic marriage I would probably end up dead, and that I believe. The emotional strain was so big, and all I focused on was the other person. The only thing my other person focused on was himself. Living in that situation for me, was utter hell on earth. In an actively alcoholic relationship there is no room for affection and love and honesty. And to be honest I didn't love him for quite a while before I had the guts to end it, I just felt so responsible. It was a good feeling letting go of that feeling, and beginning to look after myself and my children. I realised that my ex was an adult and he was not my responsibility, his feelings and his behaviour were all his own to look after.

It's no wonder you don't ask him for help if he turns it into you 'owing' him sex. Of course you don't ask for help. That is not your fault, it is his.
He's unloved - because he's made himself unlovable. He's behaved appallingly, abusively to his wife. He's ignored his daughters. He has done this.
You are codependent and have a false belief that you are responsible for his well being. You need some counselling or therapy to unpick this. But you also need to get him out. Is he not a grown up? Can he not learn to take care of himself when you stop doing it?

This 'alcoholism is an illness = he can't help it = I shouldn't improve my own situation' attitude is found relatively often on MN but rarely in the children of alcoholics. You know he can help it, right?

I have a feeling you will see a dramatic change in your dds when you leave your DH. And at the very least it is worth a try.

Hi superamoo.

Agree with the poster who said instead of assuming that by leaving you would be ruining your daughters' lives that you assume that by STAYING this long and longer you are ruining them (far far more likely to be the case).

Instead of living with someone who doesn't do things for or with them and observing a relationship where the woman does everything and man nothing, and drinks all the time, and feeling the tension in the house, they could come home to you, calmness and safety.

RL agencies: womens aid (especially given his abusiveness, sexually), al-anon, other organisations for families living with an addict; your GP (for you), family centre/ school. Lawyers, Citizens Advice.

You seem to be dwelling very much on HIM, and your part in his behaviour. What about your daughters? Feel sad and worried for THEM, not him!

As has been said: you didn't cause this, you can't control or cure it. All that is up to him. Your job is to get your DC into a better situation. They should be your priority and are suffering as a result of living with him.

He may well end up losing his job. A new job is a risk, especially if it's with a new employer, as there're no unfair dismissal rights for two years. The economy is hard, and employers can often see the signs of alcoholism, or his performance could be poor.

His situation is sad. But I have limited sympathy for him, especially given his negligent treatment of the DC and what you've said about sex. His tears are for himself, and are standard tactics when people feel their partner might leave. Maybe one day he will seek help and get better, maybe not, but either way he's not your problem when you have DC to consider.

By the way, you are not expecting too much of him to work, commute and do some stuff at home. That is standard adult life for goodness sake!

Examining your part in things, and why you have stayed all this time and until your eldest daughter is seven (well old enough to know things are very wrong) would be better done AFTER you leave. And such analysis is downright destructive if the result is to keep you there.

YOUR life would also be better!

A good friend of mine lived with a man a lot like this. She left when her son was five because she was concerned he'd turn out like his dad. Was very worried about impact of leaving on her son, but as it turned out he was fine, almost right away. Her partner was full of tears and promises, so she said: "I'm leaving, if you sort yourself out, we'll talk about things in a year's time".

He still drinks and smokes (and works, and goes to the gym a lot). He's had several spells of bad health (including long spells off work, though so far he's kept his job), e.g. back injury from falling down stairs drunk, blackouts, lots of bugs. He has a new partner who also drinks.

She was also very worried about her ex having their DS for weekends, as he was unfit to care for his DS due to his drinking: but realised that if she considered him an unfit father for shared custody, why were they living with him everyday? In the event her ex P didn't want overnight visits (interfered too much with drinking ) and sees his DS twice a week, once after school at a relative's house and on Saturdays (when he still doesn't take his DS to football as he'd rather watch it, while drinking).

My friend worked hard as a single parent, but said this was much easier than being with her ex. Her son is now nine, doing well, and my friend is marrying someone much nicer!

I grew up with alcoholics. I despise my DF for choosing booze over us four kids and I despise my DM for thinking he was her responsibility.

I had, from the outside, an incredibly privileged upbringing yet I knew that I was never my mothers's priority. All that mattered was her stupid unrealistic bullshit dream that one day my DF would wake up and stop drinking.

He still hasn't, and I blame them both for pissing away my childhood.

Luckily, I have had some amazing therapy and am now able to help other people to learn to repair the damage done to them by alcoholism in their family.

Is that what you want for your own children?

OP, I meant real life organisations like Women's Aid or Alanon.

Please listen to the other children of alcoholics here. My grandfather (who we lived with) was an alcoholic and it ruined my childhood too. All the adults who should have been safeguarding me from that didn't and it has utterly fucked my life.

Thank you everyone. I am really trying to have an open mind and take it on. I have been to CODA but it ended up being really upsetting because everyone was really ill at the meetings because there are no recovered people where I live and therefore no sponsors. Just week after week I'd go and listen to people talk about how bad they felt and it helped to know I wasn't alone but in the end it was soul-destroying that noone ever moved beyond feeling bad. I may try and go back - I haven't been for a year. I live in hope that a recovering/recovered person might move into the area and start going to the meeting. I know I'm a codependent from the way I went from relationship to relationship to relationship from age 11 - all I've ever wanted is someone to be kind to me and look after me abit because my parents couldn't. And I've ended up with someone who doesn't take care of me at all. It's so so sad. I see that I've never really acknowledged that, as lovely as my parents are, they didn't take care of me. I was abused by a teacher at school when I was 9 for instance, sexually and physically, but I never even mentioned to my parents until I was 19 because my parents were so detatched from me. I think I am finally starting to see that that is a sad thing. That i don't have to be brave about it anymore, that I'm allowed to feel sad and angry. There's alot of abuse and bullying and neglect in my childhood. I've been to many different counsellors and talked about it for hours. But I've never felt it before, strangely. A counsellor doesn't react do they - they have to be neutral and I always took their neutrality and their silence to mean that what happened to me wasn't bad. But your stories, your reactions, your advice are starting to make me see that my childhood was actually pretty fucked up. Because my DP's childhood 'trumps' mine because his dad beat his mum, I've always thought I was making a 'fuss' if I felt sad about my own. I guess I'm just still worried that despite years of counselling, despite years of going to meetings, I'll still damaged goods and if I'm left alone with my DCs, then I'll just fuck them up too.

SuperAmoo

You sound like an incredibly articulate and intelligent woman who is able to intellectually fully understand the situation you are in. But emotionally unable to trust yourself enough in the same manner.
It is very clear that if you are left alone with your DCs you will in no way fuck them up - you are already making that clear with the time, love and energy you are expending on them. That won't change.

What you would be able to do is focus on them fully with no need to worry about covering up, compensating and trying your very best to cover a hole which in fact the oldest one if already aware of.

My mother was beaten by my father but for religious reasons would never have left him. Thankfully he ran off with someone else and I have never seen him since. Has it impacted me - only in the sense that I know I have grown up healthier, more rounded and a better person than if he had stayed. Even so, any arguments between her and my (step) dad used to cause great anxiety and that even when my real father left when I was only 3.

Yes, your kids will be subconsiously absorbing all of this, but through your own love and care may end up as adults saying that their kids also have things 'much better than we did'. But it's not a matter of just improving, it's a question of giving them the absolute best they could have in total. And at this stage it's clear that would be with you and you alone.

And then there's you yourself. You also deserve a whole whole lot more and the ability to feel love, passion, trust, comfort and ease with someone. If you don't leave now, you will find yourself like one of the earlier posters mother has, looking after an alcoholic stoner who will become evermore disfunctional, your girls will leave and you will be left alone with him for the rest of your life... I don't believe that is what you dream of your future being...

Best of luck and take care.

I don't think you can fuck up your children more by being alone with them, and showing them that you cannot tolerate bad relationships, than by staying in this relationship and normalizing alcohol abuse.

I also suspect that you will be able to move on better from your childhood if you do get rid of this relationship.

Thank you. I really appreciate you all taking the time to reply and support me. I'm doing abit better now - I tend to be fine when he's not physically near me. I'm putting up as many obstacles as possible between me and going back to how things were - in the past, I've talked myself into leaving and then he's come home smiling and emptied the dishwasher and I've thought, actually things aren't so bad after all. This time is different. Yesterday I told one of my closest friends everything - turns out she worked in a treatment centre for alcoholics ten years ago which I never knew so she helped, as you all have been doing, to see how his behaviour is 'alcoholic'. Lastnight my sister sent me an email inviting me to her birthday meal and instead of making up some bullshit excuse why I couldn't come, I've just rung her up and told exactly why I can't come - because I live with an alcoholic and can't leave the children alone with him and because we're splitting up anyway. She was horrified to hear that he spent all the money I've worked so hard to earn. She said he was a complete shithead - which was really nice to hear because previously my family have always taken his side, which has made me feel worthless and awful. I've also told two other people that we're separating so I can't go back now. I have to move forward with this. I'm just going to wait for his antibiotics to kick in because I don't believe it's right to tell him that I've had enough when he's genuinely ill. But as soon as he's better in a couple of days, I'm going to say that it's finished and he needs to find somewhere else. If he reacts badly, my sister said we can go and stay with her for half term. No doubt I'll have another wobble in a couple of hours or espeically when he comes home this evening - I'll see his sad face and just feel like my insides are being ripped out but I'll just keep posting, because you've all helped me so much so far. Thank you

It's great that you have RL support. :)

My sister was invaluable to me when I left exH.

Telling everyone has also been very cathartic. :)

I hope all goes well in the next few days. Sending strength vibes.

when he comes home this evening - I'll see his sad face

Are you trying to give him the support you feel you never had?
You are taking on too much responsibility for what is his life, true he is probably seriously affected by his childhood, but that is all the more reason for you to step away. You cannot make up for his lousy parents. You'll wear yourself out trying to fix all that, it's for him to fix, not for you.
And you don't know if perhaps he will fix things (or at least improve things) in his life once you are no longer doing everything for him. Try not to make assumptions Super, especially when they are so pessimistic!!

Very sorry that you were abused as a child superamoo, and that your parents didn't take care of you, that is really sad.

Glad you have some RL support and have told some trusted people about the situation, that was brave of you. Maybe there can be online or telephone "sponsors" or forums.

When you tell him, be prepared that he might not be willing to accept it or to move out. You might need legal advice. Do you co-own the place you live in or is it rented?

It is sad, he will be sad, but he still has time in his life to improve things, and be a better parent. You can't do that for him, together or not, and he has already taken far too much from you.

You and your girls CAN have much better daily lives, just the three of you. You can do it.