Red flags from MIL - am I overreacting to take them seriously?

[noblamenogame]

Really don't want to dripfeed but the backstory with MIL/ILs is massive and I've posted about it before under another name but think SIL may have cottoned on to the previous name so don't want to link to it. Far too much backstory to write here but in a nutshell MIL in particular has had a lot of hissy fits in recent weeks/months and caused a lot of stress for us, DP especially. Said lots of very hurtful things, triggered a lot of guilt and worry for DP.

Recently it all came to a head because I wrote her a huge email being civil but basically saying she was out of order (with DP's blessing, but he struggles to confront her unless the situation is in his face) and I think MIL realised she'd gone too far and went back on a lot she'd said and was as nice as she could be to smooth it all over. DP desperately wants to believe it's all sorted but I've got a feeling she just realised she was pushing DP away and did the 'reformed' act to keep DP on side, as he was determined to 'choose' me over her if it came to it and I think she knew that.

Part of the whole problem between MIL and us has been that she can't let go of DP and still wants to mother him - she tells him what to do and wants to keep control over the decisions he makes. This isn't me reading this into it, DP has said it himself and even MIL has said similar but said she's working on it . DP's last relationship had similar problems - his ex told him she didn't feel he supported her over his mum, so it's something quite historic, not something I'm reading into the situation wrongly.

In the 'getting it all out' conversation MIL said a few things that DP took as quite nice, reassuring him that she cares about him, but I read very differently into them and took them as veiled attempts to 'put me in my place'. She said I didn't understand DP like she did because she'd brought him up (and because of previous comments she was replying I know she meant I was wrong about her having hurt him), that they are very close and their relationship is unshakeable, that after being a mother for so long she knows what she's talking about, that nothing can come between them, that a lot of what I said wasn't accurate (about her having hurt DP with her past comments), that she 'knows she's put too much of her life into her kids and is trying to cope with not having them anymore' and how she'll always be his mum (true, yes, but following the rest it seemed off).

I can't help thinking those comments aren't normal and she's saying 'well I might be doing the nice and lovely act now to keep DP happy but I still expect to be the number one woman in DP's life and I'm going to cause more havoc in future if you don't roll over and let me' - am I overreacting?

To be honest your problem seems to be your DH as much as your mil.

She probably pushes boundaries as per whatever your backstory is but tbh your writing emails to her about your dh, and her replying about her bond sounds weird.

The dynamic is all wrong. Realistically, MIL will never take anything from you-she will always respond with the 'I know him better' line. She has to hear it from your DH. HE has to put the boundaries in place and police them. Nothing else will work.

We've had a lot of discussions tbh about why he finds it so hard facing up to her and why he needs to for me and to give him his due he's been trying incredibly hard. To even argue with her about anything is a massive deal for him due to a massive load of childhood backstory, to the point of physically shaking when he has to phone her, but he's been doing everything he can anyway. He's had a lot of discussions with her but she generally refuses to talk to me when the shit's hitting the fan so I got fed up and decided to email her because I was so angry about the recent hissy fits. It's the only time I've written to her, generally we (or DP if not) talk.

Would it be an idea for him to get some counselling if he shakes at the thought of having to phone her?
I am completely useless tbh. I can't imagine trying to continue in a relationship with someone who made my dh so distressed.

I hope others are more helpful.

That makes sense Eldritch, I suppose I was hoping that by talking/writing to her we could get through it like adults but that's obviously not on with her. I think I was also hoping to wake her up a bit because the more pressure she puts on DP the harder it makes it for him to set boundaries and sort her out - due to some ongoing health problems any major stress just makes doing anything massively harder for him.

He's having counselling at the moment but the NHS one he got was only for so long and had only just scratched the surface and we can only afford an hour a fortnight so he says himself it's slow going.

Blimey, it sounds awful.

I think: disengage as much as possible, both of you get into the habit of not telling her anything (even about mundane life choices), put as many practical barriers in the way of her interfering as possible (no key to your house, no regularly scheduled visits, no discussing house purchases, new cars, holidays, job changes, not a word about having children etc etc).

I agree the first poster, your problem is with your DH.

If he is actually shaking when having to phone her then he really needs therapy.

He has to learn to stand up to her & behave like an adult. He is the only one who can set the boundaries with his mother, he is the one who should be emailing her. At the moment you are mothering his relationship with his mother.

Therapy should help him address this.

Has he read Hamlet..?

We've talked about going non-contact and he was almost determined to do it after the last blow up but when she's calmer and 'being nice' he can't bring himself to because she'd do the whole devastated routine, pile on the guilt and has apparently in the past (before I knew him) got herself hospitalised with stress when he's tried to stand up for himself. Once he gets past the guilt more I can see it changing dramatically but right now him cutting her off, even just in the sense of not talking about our lives etc seems impossible for him.

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An hour a fortnight is better than nothing, and it gives him time to process stuff between sessions.

I would focus on empowering him rather than battling his mother, because it's not a battle you can win anyway.

Think you're right Twinkle, have felt bad in the past about piling on more pressure by basically telling him 'I don't like this' and leaving it to him to sort but think that's the only way it's going to work. Am (slowly) learning I can still support him without helping him do what he should be doing on his own.

If he is actually shaking when having to phone her then he really needs therapy.

Wouldn't simply stopping phoning her be simpler, cheaper, faster and more effective?

got herself hospitalised with stress when he's tried to stand up for himself.

It's not him that needs the therapy.

He's gone from letting his mum control his life to you stepping and and attempting to control her on his behalf.

You will end up mad or up for murder .

Totally disengage and let then get on with it . As long as she doesn't actively interfere in your life (in which case you respectfully tell her your boundaries) that's all you can do.

Like a wasted muscle, unless your DH gets flexing his own opinion and power on this he will remain a flaccid little scaredy cat mummy's boy.

Find something lovely to distract you, honestly. You deserve to use your mind for something much more enjoyable than writing emails to a sad old lady.

Agree with focussing on empowering your DH.

Yes, that sounds sensible to me.
Change the focus from battling her to getting your DH to sort his issues out.
One hour a fortnight will help if he actively focuses on the issues between sessions.
Your stepping in between them is well intentioned but could just reinforce hs belief that he can't cope.
Good luck though. It sounds grim.

How long have you been with DP, do you have children together? How old are you both?

This sounds a horrendous situation, am amazed you put up with it; I can't see it getting any better .

Unfortunately due to years of inbuilt conditioning at the hands of his toxic (and perhaps also personality disordered) mother, he is both unwilling and unable to stand up for himself. He perhaps does not want to really acknowledge to himself that she has really been so crap and cruel to him since childhood. Denial is a powerful force as well.

He needs something a bit more concrete as well than NHS counselling which may well only last 6 sessions and certainly more than once a fortnight. He could try contacting BACP as they could well help him. The website www.lightshouse.org could also help him as well because he is very much in FOG with regards to his mother - fear, obligation, guilt.

Such toxic people as well often pull illness stunts on their victims to bring them back into line as has been seen here as well.

I would certainly read "Toxic Inlaws" written by Susan Forward and give him a copy of "Toxic Parents" written by the same author.

Do also read the "well we took you to stately homes" thread on these pages as well.

Agree with hanginggardens.

You can be very clear about where YOUR boundaries are but not sure you can set then for your DH. He needs to set them himself. If he doesn't he will end up losing his life to his mother

Boundaries need to be raised a lot bloody higher than they have been by both of you, particularly for him. You can help by not contacting her at all; such people cannot be at all reasoned with and any reasoned argument that you put forward will be used against you by her.

He is completely cowered by his mother currently and it may ever be the case if he cannot get through the fear, obligation and guilt barriers she has built. It is NOT his fault she is like this, her own birth family did that particular lot of damage.