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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Contact arrangements shouldn't be like this....should they?:(

19 replies

mrsericnorthmaniwish · 19/10/2013 06:35

I am divorcing my husband, I never thought it would be easy and it took a lot to finally do it but I know it was the right thing for me and dcs. However he is being horrible,he has set me up over the house - not entitled to anything despite that the dcs are with me, he is living in the home alone while I am staying with relatives(I left after dv) he has not contributed financially towards the dcs since we left(nearly 4months) we have had mediation and at the moment he is advising me at the beginning if each week which weekend day he will have dcs, if at all, this is because he can't/won't book a day off each week because he has to take work as and when(hope makes sense) this was an issue for me before and it's starting to piss me off now. From reading others posts on here people seem to have every other weekend,every Sunday/Saturday or some sort of every other arrangement. I know its hard cause of his work but actually I don't care, if we are busy I can say no but so far I have ensured he sees them when he gives me a day, he also gives me dates in holidays when he can see them. Am I being unfair in thinking that actually this is not how it should be? He is making all the demands and it's all based around what suits him, I am thinking of the future and possible childcare at weekends if I am working, this arrangement won't be acceptable then and tbh I am thinking it's not now. Also I feel the children have no routine, they like to know when they will see him. Any advice much appreciated, I am frightened to stand up to him but this is important to me, like I said its one of the reasons I wanted out :(thank you

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/10/2013 07:08

Sorry you're having such a bad time. The word that stands out there is 'mediation'. Mediation is fine when you're dealing with a reasonable person. He clearly isn't a reasonable person and therefore I would strong recommend that you put all of this through your solicitor rather than trying to do this solo. Do you have a solicitor?

CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/10/2013 07:09

Oh yes.... and you'd be within your rights to keep the DCs with you 100% of the time until the case is settled. If DV has been a factor and he is not contributing financially then you'd be well within your rights.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/10/2013 07:09

(Sorry... repeating myself there Blush)

mrsericnorthmaniwish · 19/10/2013 07:24

Thank you:) I have solicitor and she is very helpful but I am afraid to stand up for anything, we have to go to mediation apparently, last time I disagreed with something(we in separate rooms) the lady said' well its what he wants' ermmm, excuse me what about what's best for dcs? The lack of financial support is being noted but nothing actually being done. The violence is being played down, it wasn't horrendous but it just tipped me over the edge. Sorry, I just don't feel like I am being heard:( it's all about him and he is playing the poor victim well, the ad hock contact arrangements are really starting to piss me off. Sorry, that was a bit of a rant!

OP posts:
Bumpiemalumpie · 19/10/2013 07:26

Domestic Abuse takes many forms and he may not be able to abuse you physically anymore but he sure as hell is financially and emotionally.

You have been strong enough to leave him but really you are going to need to be stronger to finish it.

Your children and you need to get on with life.

My suggestions, as no, contact arrangements should not be like this are as follows.

  1. call women's aid and get support to get a solicitor, they will support you through out and if you can prove dv then you will get legal aid
  1. make a claim to the child support agency.
  1. Stipulate your contact terms in writing, keep a diary
  1. stop feeling sorry for him, he did this and you will end it, you will be strong and you CAN do this.
  1. hug your children, they need to have faith in their strong mummy

hope this helps. Contact arrangements take many forms but the main aim is that it is a positive experience for dcs

CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/10/2013 07:30

Your solicitor's job is to fight for your rights. If they're letting you down, change solicitor. Mediation is not appropriate in all cases. They can suggest it but you can say just as easily say 'no thanks'. You can't reason with a man like this. In the meantime, keep your DCs close.... let him sue for contact.

mrsericnorthmaniwish · 19/10/2013 07:39

I have legal aid:) the police have the incident on record. There just seems to be no consequences for him, everything is his own way and what he wants, I feel the children should have some sort of continuity and routine based around their needs not his. The children get plenty of hugs and reassurance, that's the other issue - when he does see them he says things he shouldn't say and upsets them:( it's all wrong:( thanks for reading, I am getting stronger but I think I need to be more so

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/10/2013 07:42

You have legal representation so that you don't have to be strong. They're supposed to be strong for you. Yes, it's all going his way at the moment so the main area you need to be strong in is to say 'no' to more pointless mediation - which he simply uses to carry on the abusive behaviour - and insist it goes to court. Keep your kids home.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 19/10/2013 07:51

Mediation should never been undertaken at all if there has been any form of abuse within the relationship, abusers use mediation as a further tool in their arsenal to batter their victims with.

This is also why mediation in abuse cases is NOT a good idea:-

To use mediation is to subscribe to the mistaken idea that abuse is related to "misunderstandings" or lack of communication. If discussion and compromise, the mainstay of mediation, could help in any way most domestic violence situations would be long ago resolved because victims of abuse "discuss and compromise" constantly. Mediation assumes both parties will cooperate to make agreements work; the victim has always 'cooperated' with the abuser; the abuser never cooperates.

Mediation can be and is ordered by judges/courts, as can counselling and mental health evaluations. They are tools in the abuser's arsenal to be used against the victim as often as he chooses. In order for mediation to work and to not make situations worse the parties involved must have equal power and must share some common vision of resolution. This is clearly not present when domestic violence has taken place in a relationship.

Mediation practitioners must be alert to the need to interview partners separately with specially designed questions in order to determine if abuse is or has been present. Many domestic violence professionals can train others to screen safely for domestic violence. To not do so risks unsuccessful mediations, at best, and increasing the victim's danger by colluding with the abuser, at worst.

A person who has been terrorized by an abuser is not free to participate in a mediation process with him, even if the mediator(s) assume or believe that they "understand". Being truthful about any of her needs or experiences in the abuser's presence or proximity practically ensures that she is in more danger later.

The mediator is left with a no win: either the victim's danger is increased, or she is not fully or truthfully participating, or both. The well meaning mediator may actually encourage the victim to feel safe enough to share information that could seriously compromise her safety. In any case the whole intent of mediation is lost.

To engage an abuser and a victim in a process that implies equal responsibility is damaging to both. The victim is once again made to feel responsible for the abuser's behavior, and the abuser is allowed to continue to not accept full responsibility for his behaviour choices.

I would also talk to another Solicitor, this current one is not up to the job.

mrsericnorthmaniwish · 19/10/2013 07:54

Thank you for that -so much rings true, especially the last paragraph:(

OP posts:
viperslast · 19/10/2013 08:10

I can't comment on the dv as that is totally out of my area but I have an ex who works in a similar fashion to yours. Every week he texts me his off days and I tell him what works for us. I I try and make it one evening and one weekend day.

Contact arranged like that is not unusual, not everyone's work allows for a fixed contact arrangement, that doesn't mean the rp can use it as an excuse to avoid contact all together and it certainly wouldn't be seen as an unreasonable situation in court.

Having said that your ex also can't use it to control you.

It is a delicate balance of living your life and your ex accepting that sometimes your plans will mean he will have to miss a contact day and you not making fixed plans just to try and block him. It isn't easy getting the balance especially if one partner is difficult. But it is possible and, if it goes to court, is something you will have to do anyway.

mrsericnorthmaniwish · 19/10/2013 08:42

I am not making plans to stop him from seeing them, but it all seems to be what suits him, two weekends in a row he not seen them when they have been available for him, if I said no to two weekends cause of our plans I would be seen as unreasonable, if that makes sense?

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/10/2013 08:47

You're being set up to fail. That's all this is. Nothing to do with work arrangements or wanting to forge a relationship with children. The DCs are the only connection he has left. If the DCs didn't exist he'd have no influence over your life at all. He knows that by keep changing the goal-posts and being contrary, he's controlling you. See it for what it is... emotional abuse ... and refuse to engage. Keep your kids home.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 19/10/2013 08:48

He does not give a stuff about his children really, what he really does care about is hurting you still for having the gall in his eyes to leave him.
This is at its heart about power and control; this person still wants absolute.

He is still punishing you and is not above using the children to further get back at you either. The only way to deal with such men is to get the authorities to be really tough.

mrsericnorthmaniwish · 19/10/2013 09:04

Wow, you know him so well just from what I have written, it's not me, it's really not me - thank you:)

OP posts:
BooHissy · 19/10/2013 09:18

What is he telling them to upset you?

You know that he's using them as collateral damage to hurt you, don't you?

BooHissy · 19/10/2013 09:19

And no love, it's definitely NOT you!

Have you read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft?

mrsericnorthmaniwish · 19/10/2013 10:02

Without too much detail he is blaming me entitlrely for the split and attempting to turn the children against me and my family in the future - he is laying the foundations :( plenty of hugs and reassurance from me and I say nothing about him to them. We are off to the library over half term - think I may look for the Lundy book, thank you

OP posts:
BooHissy · 19/10/2013 10:27

Oh yes. That's what the script says he'll do too!

Just be clear. Domestic violence IS a dealbreaker.

He CHOSE to do this. YOU CHOOSE not to accept it!

It gets easier. Stick to your guns!

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