Do you think an affair can be harmless if it's never discovered?

[Dietxokebreak]

And if its mainly physical, neither party had any intention of leaving their partner and it's conducted at times they would be away from their families anyway?

[FrancescaBell]

For example, it's not true that all affairs are discovered. In RL I know of some which have never been

No, you don't know that. It's just not possible to prove it. For all you know, someone knows or several people know, but say nothing to anyone.

[Missbopeep]

Francesca- let me be more plain. By 'discovered' I mean by the spouses or partners of the people involved.

Please don't tell me what I know or don't know.

I could say that you seem to have spent a lot of your career assuming colleagues were having affairs when it may have been totally innocent!

[FrancescaBell]

Ah but I wasn't talking about just partners and spouses. But even if you were, you can't prove it. Some spouses or partners know but don't tell anyone.

I can most certainly tell you what you don't know, because logically, it's impossible for you to prove this negative.

I think I'm as baffled with some posters lack of logic as their lack of empathy.

[dawntigga]

yes, I know of at least 2 relationships that were saved by well placed discreet affairs. In both cases the people concerned did not tell their respective partners of the affair and have realised the grass is not greener.

It usually doesn't work that way though because they either get caught or feel so bad about it they tell their partners.

ThisIsNotAPopularOpinionOnMNMehTiggaxx

[yellowutka]

Lazysuzanne, I fail to see why experiences regarding harm caused by affairs before they were discovered cannot be extrapolated to potential harm caused by affairs which are never discovered. I particularly fail to see why affairs discovered by other parties, who perceive that these have caused harm, are qualitatively different to affairs not discovered by anyone. I also fail to see why you are expecting a "scientific" level of evidence on a forum which is informed mainly by experience. I further wonder if you have ever heard of qualitative evidence: often applied in research within the social sphere. And, forgive me, I take an extremely 'dim' view of your attitude to other posters, perhaps that's just me .

[EldritchCleavage]

Actually, the main problem on this thread is rude dissenting, rather than dissenting per se.

No names, no pack drill.

[Missbopeep]

Francesca - don't be insulting about people's grasp of logic.

I am fully aware you can't prove a negative but you are being a little overly pedantic. Let's just agree that there are affairs which as far as we know - but which could not be proved 100%- are unknown to the spouses of those involved. It is quite possible for a spouse to say to a friend' My DH/ DW would never be unfaithful and I know they never have been', when we know differently. We aren't talking about proof as if in a court of law- but in everyday life.

[Missbopeep]

Please don't tell me what I know or don't know.

If you meant this then I could tell you about lots of things I don't know - if you asked me about them then you'd see my ignorance! An exam or test can prove what someone doesn't know. You can have a 'negative' result for something.

[ColderThanAWitchsTitty]

good husbands don't risk seeing their kids every other weekend for a fuck budy that doesn't mean anything

[QuiteSo]

Op, next time you're shagging your lying, cheating married boyfriend, spare a thought for his wife.

She's probably at home, doing boring domestic things liking wiping bottoms, clearing up spills at the dinner table or supervising homework. Perhaps she's reading bedtime stories to the kids. When they ask why Daddy's not home, she's explaining that he has to work late again.

She probably is older than you, has stretch marks and gets tired in the evenings. She's frumpy and boring. She does the essentials that need to get done at home so Hubby can stay out every night humping a desirable young slut. That's you.

[redundantandbitter]

Well in my case my Dc's dad admitted I'd done him a favour when my relationship with another man came to light. We never actually discussed it - which sounds incredulous I know - but it was a great chance for him to jump ship . He moved in with a colleague from work who I suspect he had been seeing for some time. He moved to another county and the round trip is 90 mins. He doesn't speak to the kids every night, has them when he dictates via a spreadsheet and married 11 months later. Not totally crap , but He's just not arsed. Just like he was in our relationship. Please don't tear a strip off me

[cjel]

I'd like to say that the dw at home is also probably having to make financial cut backs for her family as her H is telling her money is short while spending it on OW. thats also harmful.

[ScaryFucker]

Remember though, Op, that woman getting ignored and disrespected in favour of the carefree and "wild" young woman could be you one day.

Be sure to remember your selfishness right now, won't you ?

[FrancescaBell]

Er no, I didn't mean Please don't tell me what I know or don't know on account of the fact that you said that, not me MissBoPeep

Going back to your earlier post, all we can say is that in our opinion there are probably people who are completely unknowing about an affair. As you also said though, we can't ever state as fact that the people concerned - or anyone else for that matter - definitely don't know.

What we know even less about though are the effects on people's lives, that are often not immediately attributed to an affair, but are effects nevertheless. I am at pains to point out that those effects are not merely confined to couple relationships.

Taking this right back to the OP then, how is she to know that her lover isn't making terrible fuck ups at work which, even though they might work together, he might be minimising? How is she to know that managers haven't clocked what's going on and are starting to query expense claims and time paid for by the firm that's been spent on this affair? Or the misuse of office tech for communications? Or that some cowardly co-worker isn't right now writing a poison-pen letter to his wife? Or that he isn't messing up his friendships because he daren't see anyone in case he lets something slip? Or that he's avoiding mutual friends of him and his wife? Or that he isn't shouting at his mum who suspects something's up, but he can't tell her?

These are all the 'hidden effects' and there are probably loads more.

[SpookyWerewolf]

I don't think it can be harmless. Surely the MM is regarding his wife with disrespect, contempt, and a lack of care by not letting her know something fundemental to their relationship that she believes to be faithful.

If she knew her husband was a liar and a cheat, she might make different choices about HER life. She might decide that she doesn't want to be faithful to him, that she wants an open relationship, or to 'turn a blind eye' and put up with his infidelity (whilst taking extra precutions against STDs). Or maybe she would rather be single or have the opportunity to have a meaningful relationship with someone else. We don't know what she would like, because she isn't being treated as an adult with a right to make informed choices about her own life.

This is causing her harm. It causes this harm whether or not she is ever aware of it. It is not the action of a loving husband and father who respects his wife. He is treating her as a lesser person whose job is to stay at home, put his children to bed, look after the house and dutifully await his return.

In addition, he may be exposing her to STDs, not casting aspersions on you in particular OP, but if he is having unprotected sex at home, he could be harming her, and who knows who else he is sleeping with too.

In order to justify this extramarital excitement and sex to himself, he may well be changing how he percieves and treats his wife. Deciding that she doesn't do enough for him and that therefore he is entitled to have his fun elsewhere. Maybe he's been criticising her, telling her that she's not fun anymore, that she's less attractive, etc. That would also be harm, even if she never finds out that the cause was an affair.

And then there is the spectacular hubris in assuming that the affair will never be discovered. Maybe some affairs arent - who can say? But a lot of affairs are discovered, there are plenty of threads here about women who have discovered their partner is cheating, there are lots of ways for that to happen. And others can infer that its going on from their partner's changes in behaviour even if they never get proof. Don't you think that those cheating spouses thought they were clever and discrete too? Just because he doesn't intend to tell her, doesn't mean she'll never find out.

OP, you don't know about MM's marriage, no matter what he tell you. There have been women on here who have discovered their partners/husbands have been having affairs while they were pregnant, undergoing IVF, looking after a newborn, undergoing chemotherapy, while they were caring for an elderly relative etc. I bet none of their husbands told thier mistresses the circumstances of why DW's attention wasn't on him every second of the day. How would it make you feel about him if you found that your MM was of this order of pathetic excuses for human beings? Not very sexy huh?

[TheOnlyOliviaMumsnet]

AHEM

[ScaryFucker]

< hands Olivia a Strepsil >

[cjel]

scary - behave

[ScaryFucker]

I am trying to be helpful

[plinkyplonks]

Affairs are always destructive IMO.

no trust = no relationship as far as I am concerned.

[cjel]

scary!

[yellowutka]

Sorry Olivia, but what SpookyWerewolf said, absolutely.

[Missbopeep]

Francesca- love to know why you keep going on about affairs in the workplace, whenever you discuss them- you must have worked in a real hot-bed of extra marital goings on! Were you one of those people who spilled the beans I wonder? You seem to be very certain that people 'know' or will be told, and seem pleased that you sussed what was going on, when it was probably none of your business.

It's pure speculation on your part whether the affair affects the work of either of these people, or if it involves two colleagues.

[RadagastTheBrown]

I'm not sure, but methinks this thread has touched a few raw nerves along the way.