Feel uncomfortable with ex saying this to kids - what to do?

[wellthatsdoneit]

Long story short - stbxh left for another woman two years ago leaving me alone with 2 dc's in his country. I came back to uk with them with his consent, he took me to court for child abduction (which he lost due him having given his consent), has cost all my life savings in defending myself, left me emotionally decimated, hasn't paid any maintenance to the kids or I since he left meaning we've had to live at my parents for the last two years and on state benefits, leaving us financially decimated too.

Very difficult circumstances, very acrimonious, etc etc. We have no direct contact with each other but I facilitate contact between him and the children.

My youngest (now 3) said to him on FaceTime last night (so I overheard the conversation) 'Daddy, why don't you say that you love mummy?' To which he replied 'Because I don't love her.......We're very good friends though', and dd replies 'oh, I'm going to tell her that!'

He has been anything but a friend to me. How do I tackle this when she says that daddy says he is 'my friend'? He has behaved disgracefully and irresponsibly towards us and continues to do so. I don't know how to handle it. Part of me think that I should just suck it up and smile and nod, but another part thinks that we should not be lying to the children, that it will not help my relationship with them in the long run if I am dishonest with them.

There's absolutely no co parenting relationship between us by the way. I have suggested to ex that we go to family counselling to try to address how we should parent the children in these circumstances but I got no responses from him.

Mine ask me this and I tell them we are not friends, but it is great that they & Dad love each other.

Don't do therapy with your ex, he sounds uber-controlling so it'll be a disaster.

what dd thinks being friends mean
what your ex thinks being friends means
what you think being friends mean

can be three very different things.

so you can say to dd oh ok. and move on.

or you can delve deeper into what being friends means to her - who are your friends? what do friends do? etc

leave it til you get specific questions - if daddy is good friends with you then why ....

then give truthful answer -= and maybe point out that people have diff ideas on what being good friends mean

psychligis recoemnded i read "how to talk.." gives good strategies on how to acknowledge felings, reflect back etc

www.amazon.co.uk/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/1848123094

Thanks minglington, that was along the lines of what I was going to do...'the important thing is that daddy loves you and I love you'.

I have that book cestlavie although I haven't read it yet. I see what you're saying although I think in these particular circumstances even the most lengthy stretch of an imagination couldn't interpret the ex's behaviour as those of a friend. It feels like its fudging it and possibly giving the kids a very twisted view of what friendship is....

Well - he didn't handle it perfectly, but he was put on the spot.

That's not to say the man isn't a total arse, but you need to separate that out from what just happened. At the age of 3, it's quite possible the moment has now passed and you won't be talking about that again for some time. It may not have been an accurate reply, but it was a reassuring one, and I would let it pass. I wouldn't get too hung up about "lying" in this context.

the book is worth reading... not everything will be relevant but you can pick up some ideas.

you can separate stuff that is between you and him as adults and stuff that impacts directly on dd... if dd is satisfied with the answer then that's fine for now... some stuff is for adults to worry about.

Yes, I will read it when I get a moment. I do feel very uncomfortable about it though. It might sound nice, but it is dishonest and I can't agree with that as a fundamental principle. That's not to say I should be saying 'Actually, your fathers been an absolute shit to me, and by association, you, and here's why....', but more 'well, no, we're not friends but its very complicated and the important thing is that we both love you', or some other age appropriate explanation.

I would go for the truth. I'd also quietly drop facilitating contact. He doesn't deserve it and they don't need his nasty influence in their life.

I agree that he doesn't deserve it Cogito! But regardless of what I think of him he's the only father the children have and they have a right to a relationship with him. And although its not what I signed up to when I married or had children with him, it's my responsibility while the children are young to promote that relationship, as long as it isn't detrimental to their physical or emotional well being.

Sorry guys, I'm in tears at the moment. Everything is very difficult.

They have a right to a relationship with him but he has to do the running, surely? Why should you be the one facilitating or promoting it? What you described originally... the mild confusion & awkward questions caused by his lies... it's detrimental to your wellbeing. You matter.

it is difficult. and so long as there is any contact with him by dc there will be more occasions when he says stuff and you need to think no a repsonse if they ask a quesiton...

have you had any counselling yourself, support, or been to a "divorced and separated" therapy group or workshop? can be v helpful to use as sounding board...

I honestly don't understand why you would promote contact with him after everything he has done to his children?

I would be avoiding it at all costs and only going through with it if there a court ruling that I couldn't get around.

You say your children have a right to a relationship with him - but the way I see it is that they have a right to be protect from a man who treats them like this.

is there a court order mandating face time and other contact ?

Contact is ok, but why is he not paying maintenance? 'Daddy loves you' doesn't feed hungry kids.

I think it's ok for your three your old to believe that you and daddy are friends. It's not like she's going to keep hold of that illusion as she grows up. Why 'set her straight' - what difference will it actually make, except confuse and potentially upset her? She's only three - some understanding can wait till she's older.

I also think that regardless of what he's done, you're doing the right thing facilitating contact. I also think you should push harder for maintenance.

We agreed to telephone times in mediation over a year ago which I'm happy to stick with. I'm less keen on FaceTime as I don't like having his gurning mug in my home, but I accommodate it now and then. He sees the children at his request (twice so far this year).

There's no order for maintenance as my solicitor said it would be cheaper to go to court and get the whole financial settlement done in one go (house sale etc), but that was over a year ago. House has now been sold though and we are due to exchange updated form e's so it should be winding up soon.

It isn't a black and white area is it. I want to promote a relationship between the children and their father, and yet I do also question what benefit it will have, or effect on their self esteem, to have a relationship with a man who does not put them first (says he 'can't afford' maintenance, which, no, he wouldnt because of the number of foreign holidays he goes on, bars he drinks at and restaurants he visits etc.). CSA can't get involved as he is outside the uk.

I have contacted him about it and asked that he be mindful of being dishonest with the children and to be truthful with them in an age appropriate way so they don't get mixed messages. I think it's better to try to have it out with him now and nip it in the bud.

Certainly better to nip it in the bud than to have him continue to pull all the strings and keep getting at you via the children. But I think it extends beyond what he says to them. I think you have to go back to the telephone times as agreed at mediation and forget this FaceTime thing. It's your home and no, he shouldn't be invading your personal space.

People talk about how it's wrong to bad-mouth the NRP - which is true. However, you are not responsible for actively promoting or sustaining the relationship, that's entirely his responsibility. Imagine for a moment if the roles were reversed and you, for whatever reason, couldn't be with your DCs. Wouldn't you shift heaven and earth to be in contact on a regular basis rather than wasting money on booze and holidays?

It boils down to self-respect, making an independent life and reducing this offensive man to a bit-player on your terms. Right now he seems to be calling all the shots despite doing his level best to ruin you and you'll never move on while you think he's entitled to do that.

I think you need to try and work towards having a positive relationship for the kids sake and that does include not slagging him off. I know be has been rubbish but they will come to realise that in their own time.

The OP is not slagging him off. But this man who has tried to ruin her and hasn't provided so much as a penny for his own children now thinks he can play on the OP's residual feelings of (guessing) guilt at separating the family geographically to mess with her head via a video screen and via the DCs' ears and mouths. He's not remotely interested in having a relationship with his DCs

What do you mean by slagging him off Retro? I never disparage him in front of the children.

I have tried to forge a co parenting relationship with him but he isn't interested. In mediation he admitted that he penalises the children in order to punish me. I think you can try until the cows come home, but there is not going to be a positive relationship with someone like that until they themselves have a change of behaviour.

The fact is that you have no control over what your ex says to your children (although you can discuss this with him if you feel it is an issue). However you have absolute control over what you say.

if your daughter wants to talk to you about this. You might want to point out that dad might be friends with mummy, but Mummy is not friends with Daddy.

You are being true to your own feelings and having nothing to do with his. His feelings and manipulation of the children are his business, not yours. Don't even give them any space in your head. Just tell your children the truth about what you feel.

This is true. I think I have to accept that the children will get mixed messages growing up as their parents, fundamentally, have very different values and priorities.

It is not ideal, but then much about this situation - what has happened, and the way it has happened - is far from ideal.

Yes,he children will make their own minds up when they are older. Not least from the transcript of the child abduction trial in which the judge all but said he thought my ex was lying through his teeth.

I don't know how best to parent the children in these circumstances. They didn't cover this in the ante natal classes.

And Cogito has it right that I have residual guilt about the children's father being geographically separated from them. I constantly doubt myself and I know some of that is down to feeling worthless during my marriage.

Honestly with the amount you have been through with - an affair, leaving husband, relocating, uprooting everyone, court case... None of which you chose or wanted!!!! I am surprised you can think at all!! You must have such a head-full of a million emotions - I know what it is like not to have the head-space to say the perfect thing all the time. Even the most judgemental of us on here would forgive (and I would infact expect) for you to still be enormously sad and angry and head-fucked. Can you think of your own counselling to process what has happened? Not that I don't think you are doing a perfect job (over and above actually) where are you in all of this? Honestly I think you must be made of steel and you show enormous restraint. You did not choose this!!