So sad about our relationship ... advice needed

[worriedhusband99]

Hello

I wonder if any mum's here could give me advice on my relationship.

The background. We are both 40, we met when were about 20 at university and have been together pretty much constantly since then. We were more or less happy all of the way through that, when I look at photos we clearly had fun and we have lots of happy memories.

We had our first child, a boy, 5 years ago. The pregnancy was stressful for my other half, I will call her Kelly, because I was working from home and we were trying to sell our house at the time. It was obviously a stressful time for her but I have to admit I was, at times, intolerant and impatient. She also struggled with her mental health prior to the delivery, this had not been an issue before.

She had a difficult delivery, lost a lot of blood, and had a lot of problems after the birth. Again these affected her mental health and at the time I did not really appreciate how much. I was still living away from home but in the process of moving back. I tried to be understanding and helpful but was also became irritated about how hard she found it to cope.

From then our relationship has really struggled. There are lots of other causes, probably more or less equal from both sides, but generally we have not been happy since for any prolonged period.

We had our second child about 18 months ago, another boy, and we probably had a second, if we are honest, because we wanted a sibling. I don't think our relationship had improved significantly but we were getting better.

Since our second came along our relationship has been at an all time low. I think we occasionally try to improve things, I think I probably try more than her. She has given up, I am sure.

Now: We are living in a totally loveless life. I am constantly lonely, sad, cold and rejected. I feel that she punishes me with loneliness by finding things to do whenever she is alone with me in the house. Our sex life is non-existant. On the other hand, I am short tempered, aggressive at times, irritable and overly critical. Because of some of the things I have mentioned above, and some other things, she is very resentful and bitter towards me but will not explain exactly why.

The future: we are due to move a long way away, about 2.5 hours. I have a very good job there and it is a lovely place to live. However, it has involved selling our family home and moving our eldest between schools. We do not know anyone where we are moving to. Kelly will not have a job but will look when we get there, her employment prospects are good. The housing there is far more expensive than where we are now and we will have to move into rental for a year or so.

I am very worried about the move. We row about it constantly and have done for about 6 months. Nothing within the rows ever gets resolved and I am sure we are rowing because neither of us wants to move, or at lest neither of us thinks it will be a good idea.

I honestly feel that the best thing to do would be for me to move and for them to stay here and I commute at weekends. That would probably mean that I would have to do that for a year or so until a job turned up locally but that might never happen and we could be separated for ever.

I think we both know that staying together as a family is what we want to do, at more or less any cost, but I am starting to think that the cost will be too high. We will never be happy when we move.

I think we have both acknowledged all of the problems in our relationship, in the sense that we are honest that there is no love, warmth, and affection. We have not really explained but I have tried to improve the way I behave. I suspect Kelly thinks she has tried but I have not seen any evidence of it, but I am sure she feels the same.

So, long post, sorry...

Where do we go from here. I can add more detail if it would help.

Sad Sack.

Bloody good for you, worried.

Here you are, writing a long and balanced account of your marriage. In mumsnet. That is a brave and fantastic thing to do.

Print off your post, or email it to your wife. Ask her to come with you to counselling, or to come up with an alternative plan.

FWIW - the isolation that many mothers feel when the kids are small can be absolute. Our own marital disharmony is always worse around newborn/toddler stage - it's just not our finest hour. Add to that your job changes and house moves - stressful.

What I'd have liked would have been for him to ask for help on MN for him to help more. It sounds pathetic, but, see if I had been treasured by him at that time - like, if he'd said "thanks for managing the kids" or "I have organised a babysitter, I am taking you out to do something nice", well, then I wouldln't have been so resentful, grumpy and mean. So, we'd both have been happier.

Hope you manage to pull things together.

Can you describe a typical weekday or weekend day?

No, I don't think she loves me anymore.

I have asked her. She has said as much when we have been very unhappy but has backtracked when we have been trying to work at things.

Rarely have fun apart from enjoying the kids.

Yes, I think we provide a happy, playful, loving home for our sons. We keep most of this out of their sight. Most, but not all.

I don't actually feel aggressive. I come across that way. I rarely lose my temper or feel out of control. Once a year at most and never at home. I have a job where behaving in that way is almost essential. Well, perhaps that is an exaggeration, but it is part of my "thing", blunt, to the point, opinionated, assertive, and at times aggressive. Without going into detail, lives depend on it and lives have been saved by the way I behave.

When I behave like that at home it is less about how I am and more about how Kelly perceives me.

I could do more. I do try but I lapse.

I do wonder if she is depressed. She saw a GP who said probably not.

It was mostly good before kids.

No job at the moment but will look when we move.

I second exactly what gussie has written above.

Good on you for asking for help, especially here. I for one think it shows that you do genuinely love, or at least deeply care for your wife and the future of your family. Not all men would lay their faults bare for others to pick over.

I also understand where you are coming from. Not long ago I could have written all that you have said in your OP, except from the wife's perspective.

I think counselling is a fantastic idea for you and your wife, both individually and as a couple. With the right counsellor, you could open those doors of communication again. It is so hard to communicate when there are so many feelings of resentment and bitterness in the way that you don't remember how to talk to one another without feeling on edge. You could start counselling individually and then do it jointly at a later stage. Or just begin as a couple depending on how you feel about it.

That point about the absolute feeling of isolation is very spot on and something I have personally had to battle with. Do not underestimate how it can affect the parent who is the primary care giver.

I really think counselling could help your marriage because you seem genuinely interested in finding a solution to this and not just blaming it all on the other party. Maybe if you take the initiative to start with, she might follow your lead.

Oh yep, and, I for one have spotted that whilst you owned up to being aggressive at times, that you also said that she has physically hit you and that you didn't retaliate.

To my shame, when I was struggling with the myriad of small kids and laundry and sameoldsameold, I too, lost my temper and lashed out at my husband.

No excuses. It was wrong. It's not part of my nature or normal behaviour, just a consequence of me feeling overwhelmed and frustrated. I really could have handled those feelings better, though.

But, he's a man like you and didn't reciprocate. That's an act of love, right there.

I can only help by drawing from observing friends relationships, but I wanted to add my compliments for the time and effort you have put into trying to resolve this. That in itself is a good sign.

To me this seems quite an obvious and often-occurring pattern that needs real depth care and support to get through. The church marriage service talks about the responsibilities of friends and family around the marriage and you might need to call in similar help.

What I think has happened here is that childbirth has been an incredible emotional and physical shock to the relationship. Society and ads don't help and neither do our own expectations. The shock to women. . physical strain, complete loss of the 'old' persona. . the massive sense of responsibility. . and the shock to men. . feeling uninvolved in the physical commitment, deep seated but hidden fear of the safety of their partner and similar change in responsibiliites. Addi tonally parenting seems to start a process of each parents own childhood and ideas of parenting may differ.

The effect I f this is that each person. . instead of sharing. . can withdraw and try to get their emotional feet on the ground by
trying desperately to resolve the issues individually and separately.

It sounds like both of you are terribly emotionally exhausted and are desperately trying to make decisions when you are far too emotionally worn out to make them well.

I have seen this hapoen to two friends of mine who stopped communicating after a miscarriage. She's felt he had withdrawn but seemed completely unaware that the miscarriage had affected her deeply. She blamef him for her discontent but didn't link it to how traumaticshe the process. .. She made a decision workout either of them talking about it that he had never been a good partner. . and travelled down that route without realising. . in my view.. that all she wanted to do was admit that she was distraught over the miscarriage. . The sad thing was is that so was he but they were both pretending they weren't because of the huge fear of whet really experiencing the emotion would do to the relationship.

The behaviours you realm about. . the arguing the feeling and reality of c sounding abrasive when you really don't intend to and the distance between you emotionally all happenEd to my friends and I wish they had sought counselling or asked for support ..or even my opinion with the facts ( they didn't mention the trauma until after they were seriously in different emotional camps) earlier than they did.

I'm not sure of the best way forward but I think you both need to acknowledge the size of the changes that have happened and really try to work out how it has affected you underneath the practical. . I also think you need to try to build in as much relaxed and supportive time together without the kids and relearn why you liked each other originally. This emotional exhaustion needs to be acknowledged and addressed.

Perhaps the job move is too much, and don't be afraid if it is.. but similarly acknowledge that the practical is taking the priority here and that is pushing addressing the rest down and away from conscious into unconscious.. and its a teeyh-gritting time that again is no time to think 'do we like each ither.. can ee feel love?" of course you can't! I don't think you have the space left with all this going on.

With other friends who had similar issues I was lucky enough to be sympathetic about how traumatising family starting 'must' be and had my friend *female) intears because I think for her too it had bee n more of a shock than she had realised. So many people do the 'isn't it great' line and a lot of it isn't! If took a lot to get them to have night s out as a couple again. . but even having friends round who treated then like the old people not the 'parents' after bedtime made a huge difference.

Of course the worst case scenario could happen here. . but it sounds like your pre- family foundation is incredibly strong so Trust in that as you move forward.

good luck op. This is difficult but worth addressing head on and I hope you won't look back and say I didn't try hard enough, but even if you do. . forgive yourseves for not being perfect. . this stuff isn't easy. ..