Possibly horrible situation with close friend

[Spinninggal]

Am a semi-regular user but have NC'd as it wouldn't take much trawling of my post history to ID. This is a really horrible situation which I’ve written as a bloody essay, but please forgive me. I need all the advice I can get and I've seen this place help many people before.

A very good friend of DH and I lost his wife three years ago in truly horrendous circumstances. They were a lovely couple who we have known for years with two very young DCs. He has a very well-paid, full-on job that he holds down while at the same time being a doting father. He has a child minder for when the kids get home from school but she leaves when he gets home and then he throws himself into parent mode. After he puts them to bed he'll stay up past midnight finishing work that he could have done at the office but would rather come home to be with his girls instead. We know this not by him moaning about it but by things we've picked up in conversation over the years. While others may have crumbled in his situation, he has never complained, never outright asked for help and has worked hard to ensure his DCs have come through quite a nasty business unscathed. In short, his behaviour since his wife's death has been nothing short of extraordinary and both my DH and I admire him a great deal.

A female ‘friend’ of mine (she’s more of an acquaintance that I know through work) separated from her husband almost a year ago after he discovered that she had been cheating on him, not with one man but with loads. He was quite a nice guy but a bit of a doormat and after he found out she really rubbed his face in it, declaring publicly that she’d enjoyed threesomes with random men while they’d been married. She was incredibly spiteful about it with seemingly no self-awareness of how mean it was making her look. She never offered up an explanation other than that she’d been bored. Luckily this couple had no children and have separated (her husband has since moved far away).

This acquaintance and my friend have started seeing each other in the last three months after meeting at the gym. Because his DC have now become slightly older he has had time to start going back to the gym - he was very healthy when his wife was still with us, something he has had to give up to be a parent and breadwinner. She is very attractive and on the surface is a nice person (I was a lot friendlier with her before she and her husband split).

While he hasn’t introduced her to his DC yet they are now very much together - he even brought her for dinner at ours. He’s aware she has been married before but I’m not sure how much he knows about why the marriage ended (they didn’t know each other previously). Both DH and I were unsure of whether to raise it and while we love our friend we trusted that the topic must come up at some point. When they first got together DH hinted about her infedility and our friend seemed to gloss over it with “well she’s told me all about it.”

This situation has now come to a head - I was in the work canteen the other day and she was the only person in there, sitting in the kitchen area and fiddling with her phone. I went over to make a cup of tea and said hello and she very rapidly turned her phone off and put it down. We chatted for a bit and I got up to make a cup of tea - the kettle and kitchen worksurface is behind her and as I was standing behind her she turned her phone on again to read an email to me and the screen she had been on when I walked in popped up - it was a dogging website.

She was facing away so probably didn’t realise that I’d noticed, but I got a fairly good look and was too surprised to say anything. We chatted some more and then I left.

I haven’t told my DH. There have been hints that she’s into dogging before from what she’s said. If I thought for a moment that our friend was joining her then it would be a case of ‘Well it’s not my cup of tea but live and let live I suppose’. However I’m pretty convinced that he is not into this - frankly he doesn’t have the time! She’s already complained that they don’t go out enough, but I know that he makes time to take her out once a week (leaving DC with child minder/family).

I’m now totally unsure of what to do. It could be a case of:

1. She was looking at it to get kicks and doesn’t act on it (which in itself is very odd)
2. They’re both into it (very unlikely)
3. She’s doing it without him.

Do I tell him? I love this man like a brother and desperately don’t want to see him hurt further down the line, especially if it comes after he introduces this woman to his kids. I’m also wary of getting involved in case I’m making more out of it than I should be and lose my friend. Advice please!

You love him like a brother? Then, yes, I'd tell him if, you were sure about what you saw.

I would tell him as you are so close. Just be careful where, when and how you tell him.

I would stay out of it. You don't know for sure that she's into dogging. She could have just looked on the website although it does, I guess, look suspicious.

If she's into sexual practices that your friend might not like, then he's bound to find out. He may already now.

I really wouldn't get involved as it could backfire on you spectacularly.

If youre close then yes id tell him
Are your friends with her?

You must have been standing blimming close to have identified a website on her phone - I would probably recognise MN or FB without actually staring directly at the screen but that's only because they are so familiar.

Be careful - if he really likes this woman he might think you're interfering and take her side against yours, which would be upsetting for you and your friendship.

I would maybe make it clear that you aren't keen on this woman, and if he asks you why you can tell him that you're worried given her past behaviour. If he doesn't ask, leave him to make his own mistakes.

He is a grown man, and I know its a horrible feeling to see someone you love get involved with someone awful, and I realize you want to protect him after what he has been through, but he needs to make his own mistakes. Be careful not to jeapordize your friendship with him

Mind you - I have no idea what dogging sites look like. I imagine they have "Dogging" written in large print so that every passer by can see what you are looking at.

Leave it alone. Her sexual preferences are between her and him. He could be into dogging too, you really can't know for sure.

What do you hope he's going to do if you tell him? Dump her?

YABU and judgmental. Leave them to it! The whole affair is none of your business.

I was in a somewhat similar situation years ago - close friend whom I dearly love decided to get back together with a woman who had treated him appallingly. He believed she'd changed but I knew things about her that he didn't and I knew she'd break his heart again. I coukdn't let it go so I said I was really worried about them getting back together because I believed she was a nasty person but that I would accept them as a couple and not make an issue of it. I also said I was waiting to be proved wrong and I would joyfully accept it if I was but if I was right then I would be there for him and never make him feel bad about it. I assured him that I really truly wanted it to work out.

Unfortunately I was right. But when she dumped him he did come to me and he said me talking to him had made him stand up for himself and realise what a selfish bitch she was.
If I were you I'd just explain how much he means to you and how desperate you are not to see him hurt. Your aim should be to show you are not judging him or her you just want to be there for him.

I honestly don't know what I would do in your situation. If you're going to tell your friend (and if I was a woman being cheated on or whatever I would want to know), you have to be very sure of your facts.

How much of what went on in this female acquaintanceship's marriage/past are you absolutely sure of? I'm not trying to make her blameless of anything, but I know I once had a particularly unpleasant X who everyone thought was oh such a nice guy, who I ended things with because his private persona was becoming increasingly controlling, erratic and abusive. He went round telling anyone who would listen about all the awful (untrue) things I'd done. Over time, as his friends repeated it to their friends, etc., it became 'the truth' because so and so had heard it from so-and-so, not my x, and why would so-and-so make it up? We didn't share a friendship circle, but occasionally I would meet someone neither one of us knew that well who knew all about the alleged things I'd done. As my good friends and people whose opinion mattered to me were aware of the truth, I couldn't give a damn, so quite often I wouldn't bother to debunk such untruths and would sometimes be a bit flippant about remarks because why on earth would I dignify what is blatantly someone else's desire for idle gossip or schadenfreude with an honest answer?

Likewise, I have a pathological dislike of people looking over my shoulder when I'm on my computer/phone, and think it's rude to ignore people in favour of them as well, so I would always put down my laptop lid or lock my phone if someone came in. I have absolutely nothing to hide and would offer my phone/laptop freely, but I don't like people observing me while using them myself. It just makes me uncomfortable.

Also, your friend has been through an awful experience and come out stronger. He holds down a demanding job and is a fabulous parent. He has the model of a really good marriage in his head before his late DW died. He hasn't yet introduced his DC. This is a man who is nobody's fool I think and quite capable of sussing out this woman for what she is, even without prior knowledge of her history. The fact that she's already playing up about not getting enough of his time will no doubt be noticed.

I'm not saying don't tell him. I think it's lovely that you care for him as much as you do, and if you were my friend I'd want you to tell me. I just think you need to be absolutely sure of what you're telling him, and if it's supposition (however probable) rather than fact, make it clear that's the case.

Portofino - I was standing right behind her, although I was waiting for the kettle to brew so she might've thought I was facing away. I saw the words "[Area we live in] Dogging" and the top of a photo which from all I could see showed a lot of flesh on display. I was pretty confident of what I saw before she closed the window.

This is my friend's first relationship since his wife passed and he seems very happy. I don't want to spoil things and I certainly don't want a situation where we lose him as a friend. However he's been through a lot and I'd hate to see him hurt.

I really don't think this has anything to do with you at all. You just have to leave then to their own relationship. You sound a bit too "involved" to be frank.

I think, on balance, I'd leave him to it and let him decide if she's OK or not. Check from time to time if he's happy and, if he asks your opinion, be honest. If she's his first exploration into dating since being bereaved he may only see her as temporary, and if she's got lively tastes she might find a once a week widower with 2 DCs a bit boring after a while.

This is absolutely none of your business.

She has a right to privacy, as does he.

Wasn't dogging an urban myth? Seems a bit odd, in October.

Either way, stay out. He's a big boy, he can choose his own partners and make his own mistakes.

What does your DH think?

I agree with Cogito. For all you know, (i) she isn't doing this anyway; and/or (ii) they have complete openness about their respective proclivities; or (iii) they don't but it doesn't matter because each knows the other isn't Mr(s) Right, just Mr(s) Right Now.

It is too slender a basis to go busting in on their apparent happiness. I think it is nice that you care about him but be honest, you don't much like or approve of her, do you?

Do you think this is you seizing on a reason to do what you'd like to do anyway, which is tell your widower friend to drop this woman?

I definitely wouldn't use the 'dogging' thing as a reason to warn him - too easy for her to deny and makes you look like you were snooping even if you weren't.

You can be straight but fair with him - let it be known that you're not overly enthusiastic about their relationship, without interfering - and if he asks why just tell him it's because of some things you heard about how she behaved with her ex H. The rest is up to him.

Oh Blimey. This is tricky. Because it's about sexual practices and you don't know that he is not also into it, I really think you shouldn't say anything.

I agree with DoYouEver - if he asks your opinion, that's another matter, or if you have evidence she has cheated on him, then I would tell a good friend about that. But not this.

Just remember too there's two sides to every story so I'd be careful how you portray her to him as he obviously likes her.

As for what you saw, I'd say tough, keep out, he's a big boy now.

If you feel like you must tell him I'd try something like
"Maybe we can all get together for dinner again soon. It's been lovely to see you happy. I was so worried when you said you were seeing XXX what with everything that happened with her. But I'm happy to be wrong!" If we wants information about her he'll then be free to ask. But if he doesn't ask then I'd assume he doesn't want to hear it.

All you can do if that is the case is be there to support him in the relationship (in a non judgey way) and if/when it ends.

Put yourself in his shoes, would you want him to tell you if your partner / hubby was potentially cheating or had a questionable past in relation to infidelity. If you are very, very close friends I would talk to him and emphasize your interference is only out of concern and he is welcome to tell you to bog off if he thinks sticking your nose in. Good luck in what you decide, the woman acquaintance sounds horrid.

Dogging is not a myth, its real and I've just googled it and found that what looks to be the main website for it in the UK is not exactly subtle.

I think you should ask your friend if he'd like to know why you dislike this woman and respect his answer. If he say she doesn't want to know then just say you support him no matter what happens and leave it at that. If he does want to know then tell him about the public humiliation of her ex and focus on that, but mention the dogging as well. If he knows about it and is I to it too that's cool but if she's cheating behind his back, which seems more than possible given her priors, he should get a chance to know the truth.

I know dogging isnt a myth but I'd imagine that the ratio of men to women who actually partake is something like 100/1.

Just because someone is a member of a site doesnt mean they actually do it, lots of women use casual dating/hook up sites but never actually agree to meet anyone because by and large the men are so ridiculously unsubtle.
I think alot of women just like the ego boost of having lots of men slavering over them, but dont actually want to pursue anything.

You sound to me quite naive about how lots of other people live.

I would advise not saying anything and why are you this upset?
We all know we sometimes have to stand back while our friends do things we may not do ourselves, when we think we can see them heading for a fall. Hence I say you sound naive.