Sex, Drugs and Prague on BBC3: is your new DH now a walking STI timebomb?

[SoWhatSoWhatSoWhat]

If your soon-to-be DH or your DP is going on one of these weekends, perhaps you should watch Stacey Dooley Investigates: Sex Drugs and Prague on iPlayer and see what you think (it was shown on BBC3 on Monday night)

I've read a number of threads where most women seem happy to pack their DPs off to Prague, thinking that the worst that could happen is they'll hopefully won't spend too much money, get mugged or fall over, and the less sensible ones might end up quietly leering at a couple of strippers behind their beers in a raunchy bar.

However, according to this programme, going to a lapdancing club to see strippers and have private dances is pretty much standard on a stag weekend. Prostitution is officially illegal, but the brothels just call themselves lapdancing clubs instead. The prostitutes and health workers Stacey talked to said that 'every other man' tries not to use a condom, 5 out of 10 men in a stag party use the brothel's services, and the stag is 'always' one of those five. Many men even want to have unprotected sex with prostitutes who have HIV, which they see as some kind of thrill, a bit like bungy jumping.

Added to the fact that condoms can't protect you from everything, and any prostitute who has to sleep with a lot of men probably skin infections (herpes, genital warts etc) and that's quite a public health problem in the making. These guys will be coming back to sleep with their new wives and passing HIV on to them, which they may not find out for some considerable time, ie when the AIDS symptoms kick in. If the men come back with herpes, the couples will be finding out about it rather sooner, but as herpes is incurable there'll be nothing they can do about it. You can throw out your cheating partner, but you'll then have the problem of finding a new one who's OK with you having HIV/herpes.

If these issues may affect you, perhaps the best thing is to watch the programme on iPlayer and see what you think. The DM has also done its own shock/horror story on the programme (which is available on iPlayer until Monday 14 Oct), which I've included a link to as it does offer the convenience of a summary of the programme if you don't have time to sit through it.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03cwv1l/Sex_Stags_and_Prague_Stacey_Dooley_Investigates/

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2449053/Sex-Stags-Prague-BBC-documentary-reveals-drunken-Brits-risking-STDs.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

I think there is also an unsaid pressure for women to be 'cool' with their partners going on such weekends. And a competition between women to be as laid back as can be

yep totally agree, a few years ago dhs workmate who was getting married was thinking of having his stag do in amsterdam, dh said he wouldn't be going, and dhs mate was laughing at me and saying look at you under her thumb, won't she "let" you etc etc ...and i was like well sorry but too right i don't want him to go. whereas dhs mate dp had said to him she was ok with it but had told ME privately she really didnt want him to but didnt want to tell him what to do

but i agree that women are expected to be "cool" with stag weekends and lap dancing clubs, its not cool though :/

So Mistys did your DH let you take the rap for that or did he put his friend right and say 'not at all, I don't want to go?'

As for suggesting that anyone thinks these clubs are 'wholesome'- who said anything about that?

It's not that posters here are stupid enough to think these clubs are wholesome. They know they are not. But I think they don't want to know quite how bad they are and they are so desperately trying to prop up that state of denial that it leads to them criticising other women who aren't so steeply mired in it.

I have been on in the region of about 15-20 stag weekends and about 12 rugby tours and in my experience most of the married/attached guys generally split from the group the moment strip/lap dancer joints were suggested. In all that time I have witnessed two episodes of infidelity, it must be pointed out that those two men were serial offenders in that department and needless to say they are now both divorced. A cheat is going to cheat whenever the opportunity arrives, be it you going away to your mums for the weekend or that work trip on the other side of country. A stag weekend simply gives a cheat an opportunity to be unfaithful, it does not suddenly turn otherwise well behaved considerate people into overnight arseholes.

The last stag I went on was to Amsterdam earlier this year, truth be told I really could not be arsed but it was a good friend getting married so off I went. Spent most of the Saturday in various sports bars, shooting pool and eating junk food. Come late in the evening the predictable move to a strip joint was suggested, that’s when the group split, all the attached blokes stayed in the current bar to talk shite and drink more and the rest buggered off to go and see a 'show'. Believe it or not, quite a few attached guys feel exceptionally awkward going to such venues as it is disrespectful to their partners in my case they bore me to tears anyway.

I also think these sort of threads seem to be more about existing trust issues rather then the actual stag weekend itself.

It's not about trust issues, though there is a vested interest in making it appear to be so.

Not liking strip clubs has nothing to do with infidelity and everything to do with attitudes towards women. If men who have wives/GFs are choosing not to go out of respect for their partners rather than because they strongly disagree with such clubs, then all that says is that they place a value on fidelity. Good for them. They can still be misogynists.

Sorry, Cu but no one has mentioned trust or implied worries about fidelity here.
Couldn't give a shit about 'attached' or 'unattached' males. Who cares? Rather, I would distinguish sleazebags who think it is cool to pay someone for sex from human beings who have adult consensual sex.
Respect is what you show to others regardless or their gender or whether they are your 'partner'.

X post

Also Cu's post implies that these same 'attached' men would have joined the others in their search for sex workers if they had been (or, indeed, when they were) 'unattached'
Obviously great catches, then!

If the only reason a man doesn't go to a strip club is because he has a wife, then it stands to reason that he probably would go if he was unattached. Rather than finding that comforting as a wife I'd find it abhorrent.

It's not the sex that bothers me about these places. It's the fact that most women in these places are there out of desperation. Being happy to be titillated like that knowing full well that it is a likelihood that the woman performing for you is there as a result of trafficking, addiction, debt or a history of abuse makes someone a lesser human being IMO.

TBF there are still a large number of people out there under the misconception that strippers are raking it in and loving every minute of their work, and statistically speaking some will be, but they are very much in the minority.

When it comes to women being fucked over for entertainment, I'd rather not take my chances and boycott the whole thing, and I'd think less of anyone who chose a different viewpoint when in full possession of the facts.

The day we have strip clubs throughout the world where it is guaranteed that all women in them are paid a good wage, are genuinely there of their own free will, and have never been abused in any way before making the choice to be a stripper, I will change my mind.

x post other way now!

I don't know if it's relevant to the thread, but in the past I'd have given a very different response. At one point I was very "cool" with strippers - I even arranged one for a male friend's birthday - and I have been to a club. I was fine with porn and subscribed to a very male culture. I bought into the idea that anyone who dislikes these things is insecure or prudish.

I am the same person but knowledge has changed my perception.

Off topic but Arthriticfingers, just a mention that a higher than average number of disabled/disfigured men (in variosu forms) frequent sex workers because for one reason or another they don't have access to sexual contact in what most would consider normal relationships.

I had never thought about this until I read an article in the NYT earlier this year. Link; www.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/world/europe/disabled-people-say-they-too-want-a-sex-life-and-seek-help-in-attaining-it.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

In those instances, do you still consider these men as sleazebags who think it is cool to pay someone for sex from human beings who have adult consensual sex?

@Also Cu's post implies that these same 'attached' men would have joined the others in their search for sex workers if they had been (or, indeed, when they were) 'unattached'
Obviously great catches, then

It implies nothing of the sort, that is you trying to allude to something that I gave no indication of. I am sure some single guys go to strip joints and then stop once they are in a relationship. In my experience though most blokes make their minds up fairly early on as to whether they like such places or not irrespective of their marital status. I, and most of my peer group cant stand them, for a variety of reasons. Initially I hated them as they are expensive, boring shit holes full of sad twats. Over the years as my knowledge of the sex trade improved I disliked them because they are often linked to trafficking, exploitation and criminal gangs.

I'm not sure how that's entirely relevant.

Being disabled/disfigured doesn't exempt anyone from being a sleazebag.

Likewise, plenty of disabled/disfigured men enjoy consensual sex.

Mothers proportionally make up way more SAHPs than fathers, but that doesn't mean they make better parents because they are female.

Dahlen did you notice the first 2 words of my comment? Off Topic.

I was asking because I had always strongly believed that anyone who paid for sex ever in any circumstance, was a sleazebag. And then I read this article and came to realise that there are shades of grey when it comes to purchasing of sexual services.

That there are support groups advocating for this very issue means gave me pause. I was simply curious if Arthriticfingers would feel the same.

Keden - in a word - Yes - no shades of grey - paying for sex makes you a sleazebag who wishes, in one way or another, to buy another human being.
I have heard the disabled access to sex argument before, but seeking out help someone who, most likely, is even less fortunate than yourself because you want a sex life? - not something I would subscribe to.
You might as well say that you should be able to buy children if you cannot have them.
I notice that you (but not the article) - talk about 'men', which appears to suggest some degree of subscribing to the notion that men have 'needs' that women society must cater for.
Most of us want a sex life, and we are all limited in so many ways in how successful we are in the sex/relationship market.
Knowing you don't have a snowball's must be horrendously difficult.
However, paying to use a prostitute's body when you cannot know how or why they are in the sex trade can never be the answer.

Keden - fair point, it's just that the "disabled people" argument is so often brought into this sort of debate as if it is relevant. If it's not, why raise it after all.

Personally, I think it's more disablist to suggest that no one would have sex with someone who was disabled/disfigured unless they were paid for it.

Stephen Hawking is married, Katie Piper is pregnant, David Weir is engaged, and there are very many ordinary non-famous people who manage to sustain normal relationships and a healthy sex life regardless of their disabilities/disfigurements. Which rather debunks the notion that the actual physical problem is responsible for the lack of sex.

If, as a society, we concentrated more on inclusion and equality for those with a disability, that would help. Prostitution just allows them to continue to be marginalised IMO.

Arthriticfingers, thanks. I was simply curious as to your take on it. I did mention men as the OP was specifically referring to men in the context of this thread.

Aside, in the linked article, the first person interviewed was a woman.

Ms. Rebord, who says she feels physical sensation acutely, has looked for sexual relationships through friends of friends and men on dating sites and even with male escorts. But her disability has scared many away, and she says she is now ready to pay for sex in Switzerland or Germany, where so-called sexual surrogates are legal

So it's an issue for both disabled men and women.

PS You might as well say that you should be able to buy children if you cannot have them

I’m not sure this is comparable. A child can’t consent to being “sold”. An adult can appear to “consent”, though usually there is very high possibility they are being coerced by others.

The last stag I went on was to Amsterdam earlier this year, truth be told I really could not be arsed but it was a good friend getting married so off I went. Spent most of the Saturday in various sports bars, shooting pool and eating junk food. Come late in the evening the predictable move to a strip joint was suggested, that’s when the group split, all the attached blokes stayed in the current bar to talk shite and drink more and the rest buggered off to go and see a 'show'. Believe it or not, quite a few attached guys feel exceptionally awkward going to such venues as it is disrespectful to their partners in my case they bore me to tears anyway.^
Ok - where shall I start*
A good friend - So your 'peer group' who so dislike strip joints includes at least one person who thinks they are 'fun weekend away' so entrenched is this view that the move to the strip joint was predictable
all the 'attached' blokes - you are the one who labels them by their relationship status- you could have said 'about half' 'two or three' 'all those with brown hair' ...
the rest which 'rest' - that would contrast with the 'attached blokes' you mentioned before'
So the choice of whether or not to go to the strip joint was dictated by status - not by any other consideration - or not one you mention in this post.
Believe it or not why should we not believe it? Quite a few attached guys feel exceptionally awkward Again, you choose your group who 'feel awkard' and give no other group or other reason. If we do not count the fact that they bore you tears ...
So that would be why you think the objections come from trust issues then?

Consent with children is clear cut - but when the Soviet Block went tits up, there were so many arguments that the children would be better in the West. Then there were the French workers caught with a plane full of children in the aftermath of the Haiti there argument was that it was for the children's good.
Consent in the sex industry may be more difficult to argue - but the numbers of vulnerable children being sold/stolen/forced into prostitution at very young ages and the number of sex workers with or without drug problems who are coerced into working for criminal organisations should stop anyone going anywhere near the sex trade with the intention of paying for any 'services'

The vast majority of adult sex workers will have first entered the industry in some capacity before reaching the age of consent.

In the programme, some of the sex workers wear big smiles for the camera. One very young woman (she says she's 19 but looking at her, it's debatable) took it up because she was homeless and in debt. Stacey tried to get her to speak more frankly (the brothel owner was sitting close to her in the brothel, and you can hear him telling her what to say) by arranging to meet her away from the brothel, but she doesn't turn up.

Another sex worker who's a lot older and about to leave the trade is more forthcoming. She can't wait to give it up. Not surprising if she works an 18 hour shift (yes, eighteen hours! Imagine shagging blokes for 18 hours at a stretch. Think how that must damage your body, apart from anything else) like the women interviewed in one brothel.

I am amazed how many of you speak fluent (whichever variety of Chinese those women spoke)

Or are you relying on the translations? It's not unknown for documentary makers to fake some bits, there have been two examples from the BBC just in the last couple of days.

(One a news item, where a female doctor wearing a facemask changed her words, the other the admission that many "wild animal" programmes actually feature capitive animals in zoos.)

Oops, sorry, wrong thread. My apologies all round.

I think programmes about the reality of stag trips give couples an opportunity to discuss them long before they happen.

So often you read on threads that members of the stag party went along to lap dancing clubs or whatever out of curiosity. Now I dont believe that this is entirely truthful but having seen prgrammes and had a conversation beforehand this excuse is taken away.

All too often I think that people with a weak moral compass (also known as easily led) fall into wrong choices by not having thought through their actions up front.

'We only went out for a drink then one thing led to another'

It is so easy to see how that happens - the weak person pleads ignorance and curiosity. The person only thinks about the current step so each step away from the straight and narrow is only one step.

Having the conversation up front takes away that excuse.