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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Getting over an EA - sorry for long post.

118 replies

KtemaL · 07/10/2013 16:16

Hi, I'm new on here and have read a few other threads on this subject but am really struggling to move forward from my dh's EA.

Back in April I found emails between him and a woman who works for him arranging a lunchtime 'date'. At the time he swore it was just a drink, that he had felt uncomfortable with it and only stayed for one drink. However, I then found out that they'd been chatting online a lot. I'd been suspicious as he'd started playing a word game online and seemed obsessed with it - now I know why!

We decided to move forward and I thought things were going OK. However, in June I then found out, by looking at his texts, that he'd met up with her again (they still work together) and that during a boys day out at the races he'd spent most of the day texting her. When I asked him to restore his iphone messages (as he'd deleted all but the last one) he refused and admitted that they'd talked about taking things further i.e having sex but, again, swore that nothing had happened.

We went to one session of Relate but he didn't want to go back as he felt that it didn't do anything and that we were already doing everything suggested i.e date nights, checking in with regular texts etc and giving access to his emails and texts.

Again, I tried to move on and thought things were looking up. In August we went on holiday with our best friends and their children (we also have two). On the first day there I picked up his phone, totally innocently and saw an email he'd sent to her that morning from a Hotmail account I didn't know existed. It said that he'd had a great time on their 'day out' which turns out was the day before we flew on holiday. He said that she was beautiful and that he'd tried to kiss her but she'd rejected him!

I'm not proud of this but I ended up emailing her and telling her that unless she left the company I would tell her bf as I couldn't see any other way forward. After one text she threated me with a solicitors letter (via email and turns out it's a friend of hers) with a court injunction if I contacted her or her bf! She then went on to tell me that MY actions had left her so stressed she had to take time off sick and was on antidepressants.

I was devastated and obviously it totally ruined our holiday (and that of our friends). Since then, I've found out that they went out 5 or so times and that they did kiss (twice) at a work event where they were both drunk but he insists nothing else happened and that he regrets it and wants to be with me and to move on.

She also reported this to my dh's boss and insinuated he'd been sexually harassing her, apparently also on the advice of her solicitor friend!! When the boss suggested they retrieve all emails between them to establish the facts etc she retracted the letter and said she would look for another job.

Basically, I don't know if I'm coming or going. It's been about 8-9 weeks since I found out but I still cry a lot and feel sick whenever I think about it. I just can't trust him and question everything. She still works there and on his first day back in the office she tried to contact him via their office IM and asked how he was etc. He didn't respond and told her verbally he didn't want any communication with her expect for work emails but it's certainly not ideal as he sees her every day, she reports to him and I see constant emails from her (albeit work related).

He won't go to counselling and although he is making an effort I just don't know if it's enough. I know it wasn't sexual (or at least I'm pretty sure it wasn't) but to me it feels as though he kept choosing her over me (and our family) even though he knew how much it would hurt me.

How do I move forward? Will I ever trust him again? Any suggestions??

OP posts:
KtemaL · 08/10/2013 21:23

No-one is sacking anyone here. It's been made very clear that unless she wants to make a formal complaint this is viewed as a private matter. She was asked if anything had happened during work time and she said no (clearly because she would also have implicated herself) and she was asked if she wanted to make this formal and she backtracked immediately. And I know this because my dh's boss was on loudspeaker when he told him this.

Trust me, I'm not blaming her but she is not entirely innocent in this. I have seen email/text conversations that were very clearly started by her, not my dh. That doesn't excuse him I'm just saying that she doesn't appear to be as much of a victim as she tried to make out.

I have to say that whilst I don't have any issues with men and women being friends I'm not sure I'd advise making someone my friend, accepting FB messages etc from them if they're known sleazebags. I think I'd steer well clear of them and that way you're not leaving yourself open to them misinterpreting your actions! But that's just me

OP posts:
JoinYourPlayfellows · 08/10/2013 21:38

"Problem is now he may well have already retrieved them and permanently deleted them so either way I don't think I'll ever know."

You'll know for sure if he does that that he shagged her.

KtemaL · 08/10/2013 21:44

I'm not sure how I'd know though? Isn't that a bit like the old witch hunts i.e if they drown they're innocent?!? If they're are only a few there is it just possible that there weren't very many texts sent like he said or that updating his phone to iOS which syncs it means old texts are no longer retrievable?

I'm not making excuses but I feel like I have enough issues to deal with without potentially making more up that might or might not be true?

OP posts:
JoinYourPlayfellows · 08/10/2013 21:48

Yeah, but the big difference between a woman suspected of being a witch and your husband is that YOU KNOW your husband is a witch cheat.

You KNOW he wanted to shag her and you KNOW he told her that.

If you don't get to read anything that surprises you in any way, you're being lied to.

Yet again.

onefewernow · 08/10/2013 23:14

You are in a tricky spot, even with the technology issues. My H used all kinds of crappy technology related excuses to hide. They do. They can tie you up in knots. Mine did .

Here's my tip- lie in the bath or in the bed. Shut your eyes. What does your heart or gut tell you? Believe that. It's the best and most reliable information you have available , WHETHER it's fully reliable or not.

FrancescaBell · 09/10/2013 00:54

You said upthread that you had seen the content of some of this woman's e mails and texts to your husband and they showed that she was 'totally willing'.

Can you say more? What was she saying in these communications to make you think that?

KtemaL · 09/10/2013 06:46

He said again last night that he wants me to see the texts so that everything is out in the open so perhaps I need to do that and see what's there.

One fewer now- I did exactly that this morning. Woke up & my first thought was how much I miss him and it hit me that I can't walk away from this. My next thought was I don't know if that decision is mine alone, not because I'm letting him call the shots but because he had an affair, so doesn't that mean he doesn't love me or want to be with me? How can you do that to someone you profess to love so much?? I'm so confused Sad

Francescabell - the emails I referred to said things like "I had such fun" etc, nothing massively incriminating but just overall they didn't indicate someone who wasn't enjoying what they were doing. The very first email I saw was one she sent to him back in March was to forward on a third party email cancelling their meeting in London, she followed this up with a comment that it was "perfect, as that meant they could meet up even earlier". Call it intuition (or desperation) but I can just tell that they're not the emails of someone who didn't want to be doing this. Familiar, too friendly, alot of them started by her not just responding to him, signing off with what is essentially a nickname, addressing him by an abbreviation of his name etc

OP posts:
KtemaL · 09/10/2013 06:49

Onefewernow- I should have added that if I close my eyes and think about it my instinct is that there was more to it in terms of feelings I.e I think he was infatuated with her, I think he was a 40 year old man having a mid life crisis and flattered by the attentions of a young, attractive woman but i still don't know about them sleeping together. I just can't see it but then I wonder if that's just self preservation so I get confused all over again!

OP posts:
Fairenuff · 09/10/2013 08:23

Does is really matter if they slept together though?

If they did, the next thing you will want to know is where, when, how many times, etc.

Surely the betrayal is in the way he has treated you.

He has been chasing after a young woman and getting a thrill out of it.

He has been keeping this secret from you because he knew he was betraying you.

He knew exactly what he was doing. And he did it anyway.

KtemaL · 09/10/2013 10:09

Fairenuff - you're right that sleeping together doesn't necessarily make it worse, it's the betrayal, the lies, the deceit etc.

That's what he thinks i.e because they didn't actually sleep together he didn't think it was a 'proper' affair and therefore it's not as bad as it could have been etc etc. Don't think he gets the emotional stuff Sad

Felt gutted this morning because he knows I'm going to counselling today and he didn't even text me this morning. He did manage to forward an email to me asking me if I could post an item he's sold on ebay though!! Grrr...

I responded to the email by saying "amazing, can't be arsed to text me to show any love or support but you can email to get me to do you a favour" he texted me after that to say sorry, he was goign to ring later today when our dd was home from school. But as I just said to him on text it's always a bit too late and he always has an excuse......

OP posts:
JoinYourPlayfellows · 09/10/2013 10:21

"That's what he thinks i.e because they didn't actually sleep together he didn't think it was a 'proper' affair and therefore it's not as bad as it could have been etc etc."

He expects you to be grateful that it wasn't any worse than he's admitting?

And as for "not thinking it was a proper affair" - he got himself a secret phone and was (at the very least) planning to shag her.

He is LYING when he says he didn't think it was a proper affair. He wants YOU to think that this was all a big misunderstanding.

But it wasn't.

He went to considerable lengths to keep his relationship with her going AFTER he knew you were upset about it.

His dishonesty is quite profound.

KtemaL · 09/10/2013 11:45

Joinyourplayfellows - I know, that's exactly my issue Sad I just don't know what to do about it.

He says he's sorry, it's all over, he wants to be with me and make this work 100% but even if I believe that, I can't seem to move forward from it because I just feel so hurt that he could do that to me.

I even drove him to the station one day when he was going to London and he received a text en route. I knew by his reaction that it was her - he was really flustered and jumpy and when I challenged him he said it was from his boss. When I asked to look at it, he said he'd deleted it because he'd jokingly called him a rude word and he didn't want the dc's to see it (they weren't even in the car!). We got out of the car and I was crying and saying please don't do this again. He insisted he wasn't seeing her and even sent me a text once he was on the train saying he wasn't seeing her, didn't want anything to do with her and loved me etc. Guess what?? Yup, he met her that day in London....

I just can't move on. But I love him so much I can't leave. Fuck.

OP posts:
JoinYourPlayfellows · 09/10/2013 11:53

We got out of the car and I was crying and saying please don't do this again. He insisted he wasn't seeing her and even sent me a text once he was on the train saying he wasn't seeing her, didn't want anything to do with her and loved me etc. Guess what?? Yup, he met her that day in London...

The problem here is that he's already used up all his chances.

How can you believe a word he says ever again?

You KNOW now how easy he finds it to lie to you.

You KNOW that he was perfectly happy to continue to lie to you and make a fool of you even when you were crying and asking him to stop.

That is a really shocking level of disrespect and dishonesty.

You have basically no reason to believe a single thing he says to you now.

He is probably still seeing her.

Why would this time be different from all the others when you caught him and he said exactly the same stuff?

MissScatterbrain · 09/10/2013 12:03

Sad actions really do speak louder than words.

I know you love him but the person you love does not exist anymore.

FrancescaBell · 09/10/2013 12:12

As a feminist, I dislike the tendency to give women no agency or autonomy, positioning us as perpetual 'victims'. It frustrates me no end when people are shocked if a woman is up front about seeking sex and relationships in the way that men have been socialised to, all their lives- and it perplexes me further when people refuse even to believe that a woman can be predatory, just because they've never seen it themselves. I have, but my position on that is 'So what?' Why is it more noteworthy just because a woman's doing it?

I just wanted to say all that before commenting that in this instance, there's no proof that this woman did anything worse than flirting. I can also see an argument that a 25 year old might lack the wisdom and experience to know how to handle a situation when a senior manager acts inappropriately. There might be a complex mix of things going on there: Feeling flattered, feeling powerful, getting an ego boost, finding someone 'safe' to flirt with, fear that an outright rejection might make working life difficult for her, plus all the years of socialisation that women have had that they must be polite and accommodating at all times.

From your point of view, this isn't good news. Because it's sounding like the only reason this didn't become a physical affair (assuming it didn't) was because she didn't want it to.

I agree he is being highly disingenuous in his claims. No, he wouldn't have thought it was an affair because it was probably too one-sided for that, but there doesn't seem to be any doubt that it would have been an affair if she'd been willing and that he would have kept that as secret from you as his wooing of her and trying to make this an affair.

I think he's encouraging you to think this woman was an equal protagonist because of two reasons: it takes the heat off him and because his ego would be shattered if you saw him as a predatory, creepy senior manager who'd been rejected by another woman.

And look, I'm not saying that this woman handled things in an ideal way. Not at all. Neither am I suggesting she didn't flirt back, but I've suggested a few reasons for that. But if I'd been her boss or confidante, I'd have given her some advice about the most effective ways to deal with this sort of workplace hazard, assuming she really wasn't interested in the least in having a relationship with her boss.

Try and see her behaviour and his through a different lens. The truth of this might be very different to the narrative you currently need to believe. I am saying this to you with kindness. I feel really sorry for the hurt you've suffered and I could understand it if some of these posts seem overly harsh on you when you've done nothing wrong. Thanks

AnyFucker · 09/10/2013 12:14

I am sorry, love, I agree with join

Your last post summed up the utter contempt he obviously has for you

I don't know why you would stick around after that, I really don't

DoeEyedBeauties · 09/10/2013 12:17

I totally get your situation OP!!! Much the same was happening here..online flirting, sending photos, meeting up for coffee, perfume on his suit jacket once, secret email. He denied them all up and down, until I found out another thing after another thing, etc.

Not for one second do I believe it wasn't sexual.

I will never trust him again.

He has turned the life of his children and I upside down completely.

Needless to say he is gone, well and truely.

And it's only been a few days, but I can't help thinking I have been blessed to have gotten away from that complicated, self-absorbed, selfish b*stard.

He is no longer my problem!!! Yippee!!!

I am so so so terrified about that long dark road ahead of me. But I am going one day at a time. I have my children and my self-respect. The rest is just details.

I hope there is a happy ending for you, OP, even if it isn't the one you imagined.

LessMissAbs · 09/10/2013 13:36

I even drove him to the station one day when he was going to London and he received a text en route. I knew by his reaction that it was her - he was really flustered and jumpy and when I challenged him he said it was from his boss. When I asked to look at it, he said he'd deleted it because he'd jokingly called him a rude word and he didn't want the dc's to see it (they weren't even in the car!). We got out of the car and I was crying and saying please don't do this again. He insisted he wasn't seeing her and even sent me a text once he was on the train saying he wasn't seeing her, didn't want anything to do with her and loved me etc. Guess what?? Yup, he met her that day in London....

Yuk yuk yuk. What a sleazebag.

I hate this assumption that all women shag any man that shows them attention. In reality, most women I know find older married men pretty sad and undesirable. There is a huge difference between a young attractive woman with a good, well paid career, who is going places, and someone on the make. I don't think this woman sounds at all on the make. Even from your slant on this, its quite clear that she turned down her husband.

It is entirely likely that she was polite to him and slightly flattered at first, then came to her senses before anything physical happened (you mentioned his email referring to her refusing to kiss him).

Seriously, what younger woman with a good job is going to want a sleazebag who is trying to cheat on his wife? She has a boyfriend, and even if she didn't, there is a lot of choice out there for her.

Your "DH" OTOH seems to have made a decision to do this sort of thing, spin you lies to get away with it, because he wants to have fun with other women while having the security of you at home. I agree with kicking him out. He might just come to his senses. Why are you running yourself ragged trying to trace deleted texts and emails to prove something? What do you need to prove exactly that you don't already know?

FrancescaBell · 09/10/2013 13:48

Oh what nonsense...

As if no-one's ever heard of a younger woman having an affair with a much older married man in the workplace Hmm

Or an older married man leaving his wife for a colleague half his age.

It happens. So what?

But just because I've seen both of those things with my own eyes doesn't mean that's what's happened here.

LessMissAbs · 09/10/2013 14:06

And equally FrancescaBell there are plenty of women who are sexually harassed in the workplace and plenty of women who down sleazy older married men. I mean, seriously, why would anyone want one of those?

FrancescaBell · 09/10/2013 14:15

Yes I have never said there weren't. Blimey, I've sacked 2 men for just that!

There are lots of different scenarios in a workplace. If you read my posts on this thread, I was in fact querying the boss's behaviour (which leaves a lot to be desired in my view) and AFAIK was the first person to query why this young woman was the one facing all the consequences.

So I know what it takes to prove a sexual harassment case and it's not this, as described.

I think as posters we should deal with the actual facts and not projections based on our own (sometimes) limited experiences.

KtemaL · 09/10/2013 15:17

Hi thanks for everyone's comments. I am trying to see where you all come from and I know that between you, you all have lots of experience (some of which has I'm sure come from going through similar hideous times).

However, it is really hard to see the wood from the trees when one post has one opinion and the next says the total opposite and, yes, I know that's what you get when you ask lots of different people for their opinions but I think this is making it even harder.

My OP was asking if others have gone through this type of crap, rebuilt trust and moved on and, if so, how they'd done that. I wasn't asking for an opinion on whether my dh is a sleazebag or I should throw him out of our family home. Those may well be decisions I come to on my own but they aren't anyone else's to make and I'm not sure that anyone should ever say simply 'kick him out'. That's a massive decision with massive repercussions on everyone, not just me and him, and not something anyone can tell another person to do when in reality only bits and pieces of a story are told.

FrancescaBell - I think what I'm trying to say is that I whole heartedly agree with your post i.e base on the facts not opinion. Smile

I know my dh is an idiot, I know he's an arse, I know he's treated me appallingly.. Not sure I need everyone to keep telling me that if there's no constructive advice that goes with it!

Many of these posts have been constructive and I thank everyone for those but I think I need to move forward on my own now. I have just returned from my first solo session with a counsellor and feel positive about focusing on me for a change. In her words 'what happens with your relationship will happen' What I need to focus on is myself to ensure that whatever happens I come out of this a stronger, happier person so that I have the strength to cope with whatever lies ahead.

Maybe in 12 months I'll post again to say we made it, maybe the post will say we didn't but either way, thanks for your thoughts, comments and suggestions and I hope that everyone on here struggling with the same, or similar, issues finds their own happy ending Thanks

OP posts:
Ilovebreakfast · 09/10/2013 17:36

You have a lot if history with your dh and I assume many happy times and lovely dc. Of course you are going to explore every option before reaching a decision. It is no surprise you want to consider saving your marriage.
It sounds as if he had an emotional affair, maybe physical. But not all men or women sleep with each during affairs. Follow your gut instinct re whether you think it turned physical.
His behaviour has been poor. Getting his head turned by a younger colleague is very very hurtful. That will probably never go away and you may have to learn strategies to cope with it. Do you genuinely feel your dh is remorseful. Is he doing everything he can to try to make you feel secure. He has to accept that you will be throwing anger and upset at him for a long time yet.

Xales · 09/10/2013 18:04

The sad thing is you just give more and more chances.

You found out in April, it was over, you gave another chance.

You found out in June he was still at it, it was over, you gave another chance.

Clearly all the stuff you were doing date nights etc were not working as again in August you found out he was at it again.

The only thing that may have made a difference because he would have had to face others about what he had done was the counselling. Funny that was the only thing he decided was a waste of time and is refusing to do.

This has now been going on over half a year. All he does every few months when he thinks you have forgiven and forgotten is carry on regardless of any hurt it causes you.

How many chances does he deserve.

Can you forgive and move on? How many times do you want to have to?

Fairenuff · 09/10/2013 20:33

Each time you forgive him and he cheats again, a little bit of you dies.

The part of you that loves unconditionally, that has blind faith and trust, that has hope and resilience.

By the time he's finished you will be a shadow of your former self.

How many chances does one person need?

Is it possible to move on? Not in the same way, no. You have a new relationship with him now.

If you just met him recently, if you were going out on your first date with him and he said, look, I will probably cheat on you repeatedly but you'll learn to live with it right? - what would your answer be? Would there even be a second date? Probably not.

But because he's doing it little by little, bit by bit, you are accepting each stage and adjusting your perception of what is ok.

What he is doing to you is not ok.