How can I be less defensive and realise I'm not doing it alone this time?

[YoniBottsBumgina]

When I had DS, his father was not at all involved, excited about the pregnancy but not interested in making any real input into any decisions or anything. I took this for granted at the time and ended up putting a huge amount of time and energy into researching stuff, reading etc. Not to compensate, just because that's what I tend to revert to. Then perhaps because I read a lot or perhaps because I like a difficult life I seemed to end up going for all of the "controversial" options like co-sleeping, planning a home birth, etc. I always ended up defending myself to friends and family (and XP, who didn't really bother putting any effort in other than "your opinion is wrong" - he was after the control, nothing more) and I suppose I ended up feeling very defensive about certain choices that I made.

Anyway, fast forward five years or so. I'm with a different DP, soon to be DH, and the idea of us having DC together is becoming more of a reality and closer to actually happening. But a few times we have ended up arguing, because he dares to put up an opinion about something to do with babies and I immediately get all defensive and shoot him down. He gets upset because he feels I don't want him to be part of the decision at all, and I get upset because I feel like everything is going to be a battle to do it the way that I want it again, and I'm upset because he is normally so supportive. By the time we get to the end of the discussion, it turns out that we're actually totally on the same page and it's just we somehow get the wrong signals from each other.

But what bothers me is it keeps happening. It would be okay if we'd done this once, maybe twice, and then realised and been able to resolve it/work around it, but we've just ended up doing it again tonight and I'm worried that when it actually comes down to making decisions about our actual, real baby (who we haven't even started TTC yet!) I'm going to end up pushing him out for real. I don't want that, he of course doesn't want that - he would be hugely gutted. I want to be able to make decisions together, I love the idea of it, but at the moment I seem to put up huge barriers the moment he wants in, and I suppose I can't even imagine what it is like to make decisions together, only for everything to be a battle.

I don't want to keep reacting this way. We have talked about it and I have acknowledged that it's my issue (although his wording didn't help tonight, I have a feeling my hackles would have gone up however he initially expressed it, sadly) but I can't seem to stop the emotional reaction.

Help? :(

(Oh, and drip feed prevention: We have just spent 15 months living apart due to an international move, so perhaps it's normal for a certain percentage of arguments to reoccur as we figure out living together again, but this feels too important to hope that it goes away)

Bringing up a baby is a fairly visceral/emotional/important thing so feelings do run strong. Is your DP a sensible person who's opinion & judgement you normally respect? Can you compromise on other big decisions together? (Have you actually made any other big decisions together?) And the big one is.... do you trust him?

If your arguments end up the same way even though you appear to be agreeing, maybe you could look at the way you communicate. Some people unfortunately take a very combative stance in a discussion and express themselves in a confrontational rather than assertive way. They block ideas rather than build on them. They are 'all or nothing' and the world is very black or white. You might benefit from some couples counselling to learn how to express differences without it automatically ending up as a battle.

Yes, absolutely, we have made some massive decisions together, and I do trust his judgement. I would and have trusted him on many occasions, it just seems to be this. I don't know if it's because I've had a baby before and he hasn't?

You've got the advantage of experience, certainly, and you'll have your own way of doing things. I've been a lone parent since birth and the parenting gets done 100% my way... no arguments, no compromises, no stress :) However, the beauty of a child having two parents rather than one is that they get to experience different approaches. I suppose you have to decide what are the important things you can't compromise upon and, if he doesn't agree with those, rethink the whole idea of having children with this person.

If you are getting defensive, there is a reason for it.

Now from what you say, actually you and your husband generally are actually, when you step back, "we're actually totally on the same page"

so, it sounds to be as if you are getting defensive as a reflex and not actually to do with -him-. So if you're reacting so strongly, it must be because of another reason that probably lies in the past. ALternatively its the -way- he's putting things, but it sounds to me like in this case you think that the source of the defensiveness lies within yourself.

Has there beena point previously, not with him perhaps, where you have had to defend your pov against someone who is overbearing? where you've learned to become defensive because you feel attacked, rather than non-defensive and simply more discussion based? If so, if you can identify it, it will help you step back and consciously choose to be calmer and less reactive.

IN the short term, when the discussions come up, maybe try to talk about them when you feel calm and when you are able to step back and take time before answering, to allow the first defensive reaction to what he says to dissipate, leaving space for a more neutral answer.

You're doing the right thing in talking about the problem with him, and if you can take a few mins when something comes up to stop, allow the reaction to bubble up and then away, it may help you. At the least he'll see that you really are trying, and working out a way to handle disagreements without become defensive is a real plus point in any relationship

Good luck :)

nonviolent communication

Definitely Meerka - my ex was very overbearing and (okay armchair psychology here) since that is my only experience of co-parenting babies. DP is very much "Dad" to my DS now and we can discuss things parenting related to do with him easily and happily, to me this is glaring out that it's my previous experience coming back to bite me in the arse.

I think the problem with taking a few minutes to realise is that I don't realise I'm being defensive straight away, I feel like he's suddenly being massively unreasonable and is trying to dictate what I should do even though he isn't like this with anything else I suppose because I have been in a controlling relationship before I am reacting strongly to something I perceive as an attempt at control even though it isn't that at all.

"I feel like he's suddenly being massively unreasonable and is trying to dictate what I should do even though he isn't like this with anything else"

Have you considered that perhaps he actually IS being massively unreasonable and trying to dictate what you should do?

It's just that, having done this before and being the one who is going to be carrying the baby, breastfeeding etc., I would have thought that a decent and reasonable man would be mostly deferring to you in how you wanted to do things.

Just because your ex was a shit doesn't mean your instincts are wrong about this.

He isn't, Join, because when we get down to actually discussing it it turns out that he doesn't want that at all, he just wants to be included and/or for us to talk about things rather than me making the decision and shutting him out. Which I'd like to say I wouldn't, but I suppose I kind of have been basically saying that.

I suppose I've hung around mumsnet for so long too that I eventually got bored of all the discussion on weaning, breastfeeding, sleep etc and I know what I want to do, I can't be bothered to discuss it any more. But that's silly because for him it will be the first time and exciting and new and he will want to discuss it. Which is fine, obviously.

Why are your feelings silly?

It's not the first time for you. You shouldn't have to pretend it is.

What kind of a discussion does he want to have about breastfeeding, anyway? What kind of "say" does he think he should have over a decision like that?

Why do you need to be talking about stuff like weaning before you've even started TTC?

Why presume that your defensiveness is the only problem here?

I think you are right to be worried about so many rows about something so fundamental.

And wrong to be seeking only to change your own behaviour.

You aren't married yet and you don't have children together.

These rows might be telling you something really useful the kind of co-parent this guy will be.

I have a DS from a previous relationship who DP is effectively co-parent to, because DS' dad hasn't seen him in nearly 3 years and doesn't want to see him.

I understand your concern, but I don't feel a need to look at the relationship as a whole. Truly, he is a great dad to DS and I can't wait to have DC with him. Weaning etc were just examples, not actual incidences that we've rowed about. We have ended up arguing about things three times in total.

As I said above, I think it is maybe the way that he words things, but usually once I've got over the initial defensiveness I've realised that he meant "Can we have a talk about this" not "No, you're not allowed to do that because I want to do this" which is what I am hearing even though he is not like that.

I suppose a part of me wishes it was the first time for me. I feel shit for taking that away from him and I wish I'd had it properly instead of with XP. Maybe a part of me is beating myself up as a sort of "punishment" for that? I don't regret having DS but I do think it was the stupidest thing I ever did to have DC with XP because he was such a shit and I feel like I failed DS by choosing him such a useless dad.

You haven't taken anything away from him.

Your son wouldn't be who he is if he had a different Dad.

How is he wording things?

It seems extraordinary that you have had 3 rows about things relating to babies when you haven't got any children together and aren't even TTC yet.

I know I haven't. He knew I had a child when he got together with me and if I am being objective and thinking clearly about things then I know he chose to go into this knowing that he wouldn't have the "first time parent experience" just as most people expect to have it. I know that he's happy with that because he had the choice to walk away, and we had the "do you want DC" conversation very early on (because what would be the point if we both wanted different things).

It doesn't stop me feeling like I've taken something away, at my lowest points. Sorry. Am feeling pretty crappy at the moment, general mood wise.