why are some wonen attracted to abusive men

[londonniceguy]

Some women seem to be serially attracted to abusive men. Nature or nurture?

If it's only a small minority, how can it be nature? And if you're avoiding them "like the plague", then why are you so concerned about being too "boring" for them? Why do I detect so much distaste towards them?

There was a thread a while back, with a link to a list of red flags, does anyone remember it/have the link?

garlic, I'm fairly sure most of people have a degree of dysfunctionality. They don't handle criticism well, they will tell small lies to make life easier, they find it hard to say no. Many couples work well together because they compliment each others dysfunctions. So one will be feisty and a bit aggressive, whereas the other is cautious and more restrained.

I think the problem lies where one partner is calling all the shots and holds all the power in the relationship. That is where there is abuse, rather than just dysfunctionality. When one person is using either emotional or physical abuse to control the other person that is an abusive relationship.

Knights of course it could be nature, even if it was just a small minority. Because some humans exhibit minority traits and behaviour. "Distaste" Your words not mine. I think you would have paraphrased me better by saying "wary of them" I'm not concerned about being boring for them at all. Because as i stated i am not interested in them. Compris?

NotQuite - In the cycle of abuse, the flashpoint is a highly exciting time of raw emotion, supercharged energy, a sense of being in the middle of something momentous! Then it all crashes down. There is pain, misery, loneliness, fear ... If you're lucky, you make up with a honeymoon phase with lots of oxytocin & serotonin. Then that settles, normal service resumes ... and it all feels a bit meh. Time for another flashpoint.

Suffering abuse in early childhood actually changes the brain's development, making us more prone to dysfunctional relationships and programming us to expect these cortisol floods. The same areas of the brain are affected, in the same ways, by cortisol and by amphetamines. Unfortunately, long-term high levels of cortisol can disable the immune system and many other functions of a healthy mind & body. If you're interested, have a look at information on the LHAP axis (limbic, hippocampus, adrenal, parasympathetic) and the HPA axis (hypothalamic, pituitary, adrenal).

Which reminds me to do a bit of my mindfulness meditation

Am watching this thread with interest, I have been with emotionally abusive/absent men who have messed with my head.

In the rest of my life I have it fairly sussed, I have a demanding job which I do well ,am a good (single) parent to my kids. However I just keep choosing bastards. I have now got to the point if I find someone attractive I think nah, because I fancy him therefore he must be a prick.

It's like I don't see 'normal' I only spot the dickheads, I am nearly 40 and have had one normal relationship (I dumped him!!) .I see loving couples sometimes and wonder how they do it ,its like I'm viewing a different species ,a group of people to whom I couldn't belong.

I would love to get it sorted, I would love to have a good relationship. I will be watching.

Nutriciousanddelicous sounds like we had the same type of parents among other factors that I won't go into too long a story I believe this has contributed to my self worth and my 1st abusive relationship.

And I can relate to being a fixer and I felt responsible like I owed it to for my abuser I eventually left but the damage was there for a long time.

I'm now in a seemingly respectful and committed relationship but I still almost anticipate certain behaviours from him like my ex, he has never done so but still I'm ready to assert myself.

I thought what London said made sense We were talking about boundary-pushing upthread: this is what you meant about behaving somehow provocatively, isn't it, London?

Not long ago I was in a group of people, where one man told a little story about horrible abuse by his father. The reaction he wanted, of course, was massive sympathy so he could proceed to depict himself as damaged but heroic. He got it, from another woman there. A few years ago, he would have got it from me.

I'm aware that some victims are pure victim, patiently soldiering through their abuse in a state of irrational optimism, That doesn't describe the vast majority of abusive relationships, though, Bugsy. Most of us give it back, too.

Thanks for that garlic. I was diagnosed with an auto immune disease more than a year ago. It all fits into place. While I was in the relationship I could actually feel the damage it was doing to my body - hard to explain.

I'd like to know what you mean by trying to provoke you. That's almost like the words of an abuser. "She was trying to provoke me." It's a blame thing.

And I use the word "distaste" from the tone of your words.

its like I'm viewing a different species - YES! I recognise that!

Another persepctive: the father of my children was an alcoholic and I would now describe it as an abusive relationship, although I couldn't see it at the time. Fast forward to a few years after his death and I'm embarking on another relationship. I can remember acknowedging a huge sense of insecurity within myself when I knew that the man was a 'good' person. In my relationship with the children's father, even though he treated me badly, I was secure in the knowledge that I was the 'good' one. That is, I needed to be the 'good one'. This was a scary awareness, obviously linked to my emotionally abusive childhood, and I'm not sure that I've fully dealt with it yet.

I absolutely never tried to provoke, it felt like the opposite. I was frequently provoked but became conditioned so that I didn't respond or rise to it. I thought I had to cope with whatever crap came my way.

Yes garlicvampire . That is precisely what I meant, pushing the boundary of normality to generate a reaction. TheKnightsWhoSayNi Please see garlicvampires post for an explanation of provoke.
PS Your starting to stalk me across all my threads now aren't you. You naughty boy xx

I hate to say it, but I do know people who's lives resemble East Enders, with a veritable torrent of arguments, drama and childish behaviour. This is precisely the type of women I avoid TheKnightsWhoSayNi, as characterised in that particular Soap Opera. I'll name one of the characters to help you Kat Slater for example... A classic.

I don't think abusive people are often actually self aware enough to consider themselves abusive. I know my ex wouldn't consider himself so. Apparently he still refers to himself as a pacifist He himself saw abuse growing up and assumed that it was the normal way to operate. Read a while ago that early intervention is our best chance of breaking the cycle ie tackling these attitudes at primary age.

I've also seen a few women I know get into abusive relationships when there hasn't been any clear cut pre-conditioning there, such as abuse in childhood.

However I would agree that the 'I can handle it' attitude was/is there. I'm strong, I can cope, other people crumble but I can take the pressure without complaint kind of thing. This strength becomes a weakness in the context of abuse.

I'd also say there was a powerful compassion and willingness to give the hand of friendship to someone behaving badly, or in a damaging way.

Again this is a strength in some contexts, but in the context of an equal relationship, it could lead to excusing abusive behaviour as something justifiable or unavoidable, or to blaming oneself.
Not arguing this is common or even true: this is just how it appeared to me...

It was interesting what a poster said upthread about the addiction to the drama, I can identify with that too. In my head the amount of drama equated to the strength of feeling which is obviously nonsense to me now but at the time the rollercoaster was down to how much we felt for each other

While I agree that's it's seen as more feminine to 'defer and accommodate', up until we hit our forties it's more likely to be women who file for a divorce. So not sure how that fits in?

Head - perhaps because men are more often caught cheating? Also, a lot of mothers draw the line at physical abuse of their children (not the mothers in my family, regrettably.)

I love Eastenders :) I'm quite aware of why I find it so interesting! Sociopath Square; it looks familiar, somehow ... I want to marry Masood.

garlicvampire As an aside I met Brian May and "Angie" last year. She is a good laugh, had quite a chat with her.

Sociopath Square! I hope it's not wrong to laugh at that, because I did ..

I do, Wordy

There are some really interesting posts on this thread. A lot of self-insight - kinda refreshing in Relationships I hope it'll develop, so that some readers might recognise bits of themselves here and do the hard thinking about their relationships. It's really difficult, that shift of perspective, isn't it?

I thought divorce rocketed till the 90s then stabilised?

When I was in my 20s and footloose, some of the men (boys?) I knew reckoned that women didn't like "nice guys", or similar comments. I've not heard it much since, but there are definitely women I know over the decades who are in a repeat loop with unsuitable men (and vice versa for that matter) that everyone else can see are crap from miles away.

I think 2 things have changed - firstly more economic independence so less need to take crap, and secondly a higher expectations of marriage and less willingness to take the rough with the smooth.