what do I do? please help

[dis]

I don't really know where to start, I feel so stupid and useless. I've been with dh for 13yrs and have two kids, nearly 2 and 5 mnths. We haven't had sex for a year, we don't even kiss, just occasional cuddles. He's always said he doesn't like sex when I'm pregant or breastfeeding, so it has been his choice, not mine - he won't even touch me. He's sleeping in the spare room, blaming shifts and noisy babies. Over the past 5 yrs (that I know of) he has occasionally rung sex chatlines and I now have a bar on the phone so can't ring premium rate numbers. He watches porn at home (I know, I pay the tv bill) - I don't object to porn, if it was in addition to a normal sex life that actually involved me but I feel like I've been replaced. How can I possibly compete with that. Anyway, I've been away for a week and have come back to find a local address written down. I knew before even asked that he would lie, and he did, first he said was something to do with a present (but no occasions for presents coming up) and then when I asked again he said it was a gift shop. There was a local paper, which we don't usually get, with contact ads. He said he'd been bored and was ringing numbers but nothing happened and that he has not slept with anyone else - but even if that is true, he obviously intended to do so, otherwise why would he have the address. I've asked for a itemised list of calls today but this is going to take 10 days. I told him I would go to the address but I'm too scared of what I'll find and I think he knows this. when I read this back I feel so stupid and a complete doormat but I'm not. I want to be happy, I have everything I want, a lovely house, the two best kids that I gave up work to be with which I love. I can't stop crying and its upsetting the kids. I can't admit all this to anyone, I'm so ashamed.

dis, this sounds horrible. I can understand why you feel so upset, BUT you don't need to feel ashamed. Whatever is going on in his head is not your fault, and is not a reflection on you.

Is he going through some kind of mid-life crisis? It sounds as if he is afraid or has some other reaction to the whole childbearing process, or is finding it hard to adjust to life with babies (the whole separate room thing, tho' I think that is a practicality for many couples with babies). What is he like as a Dad, how involved? Have you noticed any other symptoms of your relationship not being what you would like?

If he was ringing numbers, that is pretty outrageous...he needs to be able to explain this to you. I think I would feel compelled to at least walk past the address, but it wouldn't tell me anything much, I suppose. Mostly, just sorry you are having this horrible time...other MN will be very wise about this, I am sure.

I'm very sorry this has happened. How sad for you. At risk of seeming a real kiljoy, I have to say, reading MN, that porn, esp internet porn and chatlines, seems to be a real plague and terribly destructive and damaging. My only suggestion is counselling, to get to the root of all this hurtful and harmful behaviour on his part and get some communication going, if that's what you want. I'd feel devastated in your position too.

It sounds like you are both unhappy people with things the way they are. Time for some outside neutral help perhaps if DH will entertain the idea.
I cannot imagine having to live with such knowledge, I really feel for you.
Do get some help and find someone to talk to soon
Lots of love and big hugs
xx J

I have suggested counselling before but he wouldn't even consider it, wouldn't even come just to listen to what I would say. He has an important interview coming up and this is totally not the right time for discussions. Anyway, 'discussions' in this house always end up as massive rows with me crying and him kicking the furniture. I sound so pathetic, when I read this back I wonder what I'm still doing here myself. He's not a complete shit all the time, I just feel like he's wearing away all the trust I have but I can't make him see this.

dis, poor you. my dp has twice gone to 'strip shows' when he's been feeling down about things sexually between us. Once when dd was only 2 months old. I found it completely devastating even though all he did was 'look.' But it's seedy and insulting to us isn't it that they choose this avenue for satisfaction?

Do you, otherwise, have a loving kind of relationship? I mean, are you nice to each other and affectionate in other ways? My friend's partner totally went off sex after their dd was born and they live together in a strange kind of polite nothingness now.

The main thing to remember is IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT. Honestly, it makes me so mad that we put our bodies and emotions through hell to produce children, give up careers, love the kids beyond ourselves and our blokes can only think of themselves.

sounds like you've (both of you) fallen into a rut. This happens so often. It's always sad and it's nearly always unexpected by one of the parties. I don't think you can automatically assume that because he is ringing numbers he wants to sleep with someone else, perhaps he is just confused and looking for attention. I am not suggesting that it is your fault that he is looking, rather that the situation has deteriorated and that no-one is at fault. Porn is a big problem for a lot of people, but at the end of the day it's not real, he's never going to meet one of the girls from the movie or magazine and it's all a bit sad and lonely. I think that counselling xould help but at the end of it all you've got to want it to work. To do this you probably need to make the first move. You need to feel better about yourself. I don;t think you sound stupid and I don't suppose for one moment that you need to be a doormat. Sit down, make your decisions about what YOU want , be honest with yourself and then act on those decisions. Good luck, and remember it will not get better on its own and it will get worse the longer it is left. Start today and look forward for your own sake

Helsbels, I know what you're saying re not meeting anyone real, but I think he was intending it was a local paper and he'd obviously got the address from there. I've dug the paper out and will check the numbers on the list when it arrives but I imagine that will only make me feel worse. I want to sort it out but I'm scared - what if he doesn't want to be in this marriage anymore? things can't continue like this but I'm scared of the alternative. I love him but think he might only love me as the mother of his children, not as me.

I wouldn't be sure that he had the courage of his convictions - if he has not met anyone yet and you have questioned it, he probably will be too scared to go for it now. If you don't find the truth it will bug you forever and will eat away at your relationship or what's left of it until it is gone. You may not like what you find but at least you will know. The alternative to being in a crap relationship is being on your own with the chance of getting into a good relatinship. However, you need to be sure that this is a crap relationship and not just a floundering but basically sound one. To do this you need to reestablish how you feel about each other, to do this you need to work out how you feel. If he has met someone else on occasion/s you ned to ask yourself if you could forgive him and live with it or if you need to get him out. Finding out informatin like this is a bit like having a nuchal scan, you need to establish why you want to know the answers and if the answers will make any difference.

Even if you do find out that he doesn't want to be with you it is better than not knowing. I don't think it's reasonable for him to expect you not to have any more sex in your life, so he should decide whether to work on reviving things with you, or whether to free you to love again. I am so sorry you have to deal with this, and can only agree with Aloha that counselling would help enormously, if only you can get him to agree to go.

Perhaps he would like to resume your sexual relationship but doesn't know where to start. It can be very embarrassing once things have deteriorated this much. Can you give him some sort of starting point? Perhaps tell him how much you miss sleeping with him and the intimacy you used to have? If he fails to respond, of course it will hurt but at least you will have more idea of where you stand. Hopefully he will seize the chance to start rebuilding things with you.

absolutely Jan star, as I said earlier dis may need to make the first move. There was a thread called men confuse love and sex recently that had the same topic but the other way round, you may find some useful advice there, dis if you decide to take that path

we tried to talk last night, not brilliant but a start I suppose. Now I feel really disloyal for putting this on mumsnet, silly really considering what he may or may not have done. All your responses made me cry yesterday as they all made sense. thanks for your support, I could not have told anyone I know as too embarrassed.

I'm glad that you have at least made a move to talk. It is true that some men look at their ladies as less of a sexual being once they are a mum, and maybe that is how they have been brought up. I can understand feeling betrayed too, but maybe he doesn't realise that you are still feeling very sexual? As I said to a gf once, you are a mum and a wife and a business women but under all that you are still YOU too and you mustn't let her disappear. It's hard being all things to everyone, but talking through the tears, tantrums and furniture kicking will help. You have to be able to get past that stage when you feel very hurt and angry to get to some sense.

It's good to talk! Bob Hoskins was right after all! Best to get it out in the open than keep it within where it can fester.

how are you today, dis?