MIL providing childcare after mat leave - am I right to be worried? Pls help!

[WestCountryBoil]

Hello. I'm a long-term MN fan but this is my first ever thread (just joined) so apologies if I do anything unmumsnetty. This is pretty long, so that's my first apology!

Before DS (6 months) was born, I had an excellent relationship with my PIL. I always felt loved and supported by them, and was really looking forward to watching them blossom into fantastic GPs. I have never ever had a cross word with my MIL and have always looked up to her, so when she offered (while I was pregnant) to look after our future DC for 2 days a week when I returned to work, DH and I were delighted to accept. I felt so privileged that she would offer, as I fully understand what a favour it is. (DS will be in nursery for 2 days a week also.)

However, then DS was born. I'm sure some of you who have had similar experiences can see which way this is going...but I didn't and got a massive shock. So: while my PIL are still the lovely, warm, funny, smart people they always were, they are completely obsessed with our DS and seem to think, probably unconsciously, that this is their time again and they will do it better than us. Fair enough, they are first-time GPs. I get that. But this attitude is making them (ok, I'm really sad to say mostly my beloved MIL) behave in ways that I am finding hard to deal with, and consequently I'm really worried about next year.

These ways include never once asking me ANYTHING in six months ie how I am (and DS was born by EMCS and nearly died), what I've been doing etc (we see them at least once a week - I always ask about their week and general lives), walking off with DS without a word and leaving me on my own, making pointed comments to DS like, "When I'M looking after you, you'll be eating PROPER FOOD and using the TOILET" (he'll be 12m!)...I know it all sounds so stupidly petty when I write it out, and I honestly wouldn't be here asking for your advice if all these things (and a 100 more, equally minor) happened alongside a general attitude of "But of course this is your DS and your turn and we're just here to love and support you." That attitude is completely absent and instead there is just an overwhelming feeling of itching to get their hands on DS and do things their (her) way. I don't feel respected or supported at all. DH feels this too but less sharply and is less bothered, so is happy for the 2 days a week to stand - I guess because it's his mum/parents it's easier for him.

Now when I look back I realise I have misread MIL's excitement (and she is one of those people who is completely gaga about babies anyway) ever since we told them I was pregnant - she has most definitely been excited for herself first (because she always hoped she would have a baby to look after) and us second. I feel like an irritating irrelevance and the family incubator.

So I have a big knot in my stomach when I think about next year. On one hand, I think I have to put our son first and learn to laugh off/manage the situation (tricky - DH's family don't talk directly about anything and I have spent ten years being uber-polite and respectful, a habit that is proving very hard to break), as he will indeed have a lovely time with her 2 days a week (I genuinely believe this.) And on the other, I think: how can I hand our son over to someone who, however subtly, acts like she is in direct competition with me? Shouldn't you have a very clear-cut, "I'm (we're) the boss and we can talk about anything at any point" relationship with the person/people looking after your child? But then of course, this is free GP care we're talking about, not a nursery...and should I really be causing a massive ruction for the sake of a principal? Am I just being self-righteous?!

I've been worrying about this for ages (months) and just don't know what to do, so any advice (however blunt!) is welcome.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

A child having a good relationship with their grandparents is a wonderful thing - if these people are both kind and loving (which your ILs frankly are not because your MIL in particular is undermining your very efforts). Not all grandparents are kind and loving by any means.

Your H also seemed to shrink visibly in front of his mother (look at his mother's stony silence when he told her that you and he were doing a good job as parents). He cannot or won't deal with his mother. You find her very hard to deal with as well and even being more assertive with her may not be enough because you may end up arguing with your own self as she will not listen.

She has already made it plain how she is going to do things and none of it will involve you. She will try and push you out because she basically wants another go at being a parent again. Any reasoned arguments on your part will be ignored.

[janey68]

I would set up proper childcare with a cm or nursery, where your views won't be bulldozed, and you won't be going off to work with a nagging feeling in the pit of your stomach that you're being undermined.

Choosing childcare is one of the most important decisions you'll make and you should do it on the basis of what's best, not some default setting of what seems on the surface most convenient. And certainly not to meet the needs of an overbearing grandparent who from the sounds of it wants to 'relive' her own parenting days

[WestCountryBoil]

Thanks to everyone who's giving me the other side and saying give it a go, spaghetti hoops aren't that bad - I completely agree, still partial to the occasional tin myself!


(Not sure about DS eating processed food two days a week every week, but hey ho, minor in the scheme of things.)

It's more what I tried to windily explain in my OP (which was mammothly long, oops

that these minor things represent an attitude of 'my baby, I want to do it my way' and that makes me really uncomfortable.

I was lying in bed thinking about this last night. Someone said I should imagine what it's like when she has him for two whole days. If her first impulse has currently always been, once she's holding him, to isolate him from the rest of us (she doesn't seem to see cuddling a baby as a communal experience, but one she must keep to herself, often by walking off), how much worse will her proprietary-ness be then? And how much harder will it be to tackle...

[Lavenderhoney]

From what you have written, nursery is the place for your ds- you know where he is, what is happening, and if you even try with her the fallout will be immense if you try to change it.

Just start now, look at nurseries, near to your work, and get his name down. Then when she mentions it, just say " oh, we have arranged a nursery as its better for us, but it will be lovely for you to have ds some afternoons occasionally if you want to, when it suits us all. As its not a given they have him every weekend- he is your child, and not a bargaining tool.

My friend had a mil who sounds like yours and she made a terrible fuss, cried, said she was better than a nursery etc etc- but my friend didnt like feeling beholden to her, plus if mil was ill, who had the baby? Plus mil had her own life, and she didnt like baby and toddler groups, didnt like other people's dc, didnt like car seats, the list went on and on.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This has never been about her wanting to give your child spaghetti hoops (I do like them too!). Its been about your MIL wanting to have another go at parenting again. She has made references directly to your child saying to him that when he is with her he will have proper food and using the toilet (at 12 months).

Just because your husband is their child does not mean you, by extension, are too - or that your child is their plaything.

[janey68]

You've highlighted exactly what my concerns would be. You're right: spaghetti hoops a couple of times a week won't hurt a child. What is damaging is having someone caring for your child who is 'in it for themself', seeing the baby as 'theirs' and being possessive and controlling. It seems that your MIL is somehow wanting to re- live or act out something and that's coming ahead of seeing herself as supporting YOU and your DH in YOUR views on childcare. That would be a total no no for me. Far more of an issue than the occasional biscuit or too much tv (although I wouldn't like those either tbh and I think that's what you pay a good nursery for: to have a say in how your child is cared for )

[petalsandstars]

In your shoes I would not have MIL do childcare and I am saying this from a position where at 1yo my mum provided childcare for my child.

However I can say anything to my mum and she asks me what I want for meals/ naps and when my child has got upset she has been handed over in a heartbeat if I was there too. She has never said anything like what your MIL has either

I trust her implicitly, I do not have this relationship with my MIL not an issue as she lives too far away anyway for childcare but even DH says MIL would not be the same as my mum.

[okthen]

Sorry haven't read whole thread, but have to add to the chorus of DON'T DO IT. I speak from very bitter experience (which culminated in mil 'resigning' from childcare of dd by letter- with two days notice). The only way family should ever be involved in childcare is if your relationship is rock solid in every way and the boundaries are extremely clear. If this isn't the case, believe me it isn't worth it.

[fuzzpig]

Mmm, spaghetti hoops on toast for my lunch I think!

But anyway - no, don't let this happen (the child care thing I mean, not my lunch :o). 2 days a week is a disaster waiting to happen. I do like the idea of MIL doing the pick up or something though as that's some quality time that perhaps wouldn't be too intrusive.

Sorry if I've missed something but would a childminder be better/more affordable than nursery?

Although I wonder how MIL would react to that... YOUR decision though

[badguider]

I have decided to limit my lovely but slightly over enthusiastic mil to one day childcare a week.
That way I feel I can reasonably put my foot down about weaning, potty training, routines etc.
As she's only doing one day I feel I can insist she follows the general plan that nursery (2days) and I (rest of the time) are following "for consistency".

I don't know that it will work but I feel one day is manageable (and although she claims she won't, she will go away on lots of holidays and get sick so it'll be more like 40 days a year).

[EldritchCleavage]

Just caught up with the thread. I was trying to write a helpful, considered post, but after reading your updates, OP, all I can actually think is 'IT'S NOT HER BLOODY BABY'. That's the problem-not relatively unimportant differences in childcare methods. The turf war.

As someone else has suggested, make nursery the default and if the boundary-setting goes well the PIL can always have your DS the odd day or afternoon etc.

And don't let anyone make you feel guilty because MIL is just being a doting grandma. No one out-dotes my mother (or indeed my late MIL) but neither they nor lots and lots of other grandparents express caring by usurping the parents and sidelining their child-in-law.

[SarahBumBarer]

MIL might be a bit less of a nightmare when DS is not a cuddly baby but an in to everything toddler?

I have a bit of sympathy with her over the spahetti hoops. I mean it sounds like your DH was criticising her and she defended herself. I didn't take it as "raising a child" but simply having fed a child without poisoning it.

If I were you I would spend the next few months trying to assert yourself a bit more. Work out the battles worth fighting and the ones worth letting go and see where you get to. If you are not getting anywhere have a proper chat with her about the big issues where she is not respecting your parenting choices. You can then suggest that it might be better for DS to be in nursery and she can just stick to being a lovely grannie not a carer with different views to you. You don't have to decide right now. It sounds like you have let some things slide (being the cool new mum) but there is time to try and put them right before any decisions have to be made.

Everyone comes to MN with their own biases. There is a lot of anti-MIL bias on MN so you will find a home here if you don't like your MIL whether there is a genuine reason for that or not. There is a hugely disproportionate level of "toxic" or controlling/domineering/dysfunctional MILs on MN. Partly because people with toxic/dysfunctional MILS gather here to find support - but definitely partly because too many MILs get lumped in that category on here because only one side of the story is heard.

Nursery is not all plain sailing. Our DC go to nursery 2 days a week each because we choose to send them (we don't need childcare) because we think it is good for them and it definitely has plus points - they have magic fairy dust which gets the DC to eat vegetables for example and messy play areas so no need for playdough in our house! But I do have niggles and even with paid carers it is sometimes difficult to assert yourself (worry about it impacting on you child etc). DS currently has a medical issue and sometimes nursery irritates me about the way they deal with it. When they change rooms it can be quite traumatic (OK only once every 8 months or so but still not nice for a few weeks) and a hundred little things - key workers changing, DS picking up some choice phrases/behaviours from other toddlers (probab;y teaching a few too) etc etc.

[WestCountryBoil]

Attila you've gone a bit nail/head there. On occasion I have felt like she thinks I am her daughter. Obviously sometimes this is lovely (I could honestly fill reams with all the lovely, thoughtful things she has done in ten years) but very very occasionally I have felt she's overstepped the mark. Once got back from hols to find she'd bleached a stain on my couch (mine, not a jointly-purchased couch) after staying in our house for a night or two. She must have seen that stain for months and been itching to clean it! But I wasn't massively happy with the (ok, faint) bleach mark either. We didn't say anything and wrote it off as MIL being MIL...funny, I can now see a direct link from that to this current situation.

Eldritch that is EXACTLY my problem from day 1. What can my complaint possibly be - back off and stop loving DS so much?! I do feel guilty about it, and constantly wonder if I'm being unfairly PFB about things. Well, I did wonder until I started this thread...

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Has DH commented to you further regarding either his mother or to your son being at nursery?.

And you are correct, the stain on your couch is a direct correlation to the situation now. She well overstepped the mark then and it was unfortunate that you did not say anything to her at the time (although she likely would have denied any wrongdoing on her part to your face). I think as well that if you had asked her not to clean it (badly) she would have found another way to clean it in any event.

You may well find that all the "nice" and "thoughtful" things she has done for you were actually done with unspoken conditions attached to them.

[WestCountryBoil]

And sorry if I haven't been clear - DS is currently down for 2 days at an excellent nursery. We could bump this up to 3 or 4 days with a phone call and could afford it.

[curlew]

What a cow, eh? -
Attila - you appear to be pushing an agenda. Which may not be helpful to the OP.

[DontmindifIdo]

well, you can then easily bump it up to 4 days with a little white lie to save her feelings, I'd pretend that there was a long waiting list for individual days and you weren't going to get a place, but 4 days counts as full time and is a different list, so you've had to go with that for at least the first few months, and as you are paying for the 4 days it would be silly not to use them, at least at the start while he's getting used to nursery. And gosh, it's so good for DS to be around other children all day, and isn't it nice she can just be "granny" rather than having to do the dull parts of parenting as well? You're so happy you know you can call on her if DS is too ill for nursery and you can't get the day off...

[teatimesthree]

If you decide to go 4 days nursery, then I think dontmindifIdo's white lie is genius.

However.....

In my experience, a lot of GPs calm down significantly after the first year. XMIL was also a bit crazy in the way you describe - she is fantastic now, and not a bit toxic. I think people feel the need to stake their claim, and defend the way they parerented. It is annoying, but I think it's natural. Those saying 'back off MILs, you've had your time' are perhaps underestimating what an emotional experience having a grandchild seems to be. Expecting GPs to go by the motto "this is your DS and your turn and we're just here to love and support you" is a bit unrealistic in my opinion. Of course some are like this, but many don't quite manage it.

You might also feel more relaxed about your DC having spaghetti hoops and other processed food when he's a bit older.

Agree with SarahBumBearer that paid childcare is not simply a case of 'you pay, your rules'. Especially with childminders, you basically have to pick somebody whose approach you agree with, and let them get on with it. Nurseries feed children less than ideal meals, and there can be a high turnover of staff. Not saying that GPs are better, but it's important to realise the drawbacks of all sorts of childcare.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

If any other relation was doing this I would be writing exactly the same type of response in reply. OP would not put up with this from a friend, family are no different.

Not all grandparents are kind and loving. No-one should have to put up with feeling undermined. Feelings should not be dismissed.

[teatimesthree]

PS When GPs are looking after your child, you don't have an "I'm the boss" relationship. But TBH I don't feel I had that with DD's childminder or her nursery. I think the only way you can achieve that is if you actually are the boss, i.e. hire a nanny.

[MrsZimt]

It's not about spagetti hoops or sweets.

It's about the GP doing whatever they want, disregarding your opinion, because your opinion is worth nothing as they know best.

Those kind of grandparents are not ideal for a child, because they will question the parents' decision all the time.

We aren't talking about doting gp who go a bit over the top with their love. We are talking gp that do not acknowledge the parents' parenting. The silence situation is appalling! Really, that tells all there is to know about the gp.

My own mother is like this. She only looked after my son twice, after that never again. My husband had changed jobs and we were both invited to a dinner by the new boss. My son was 8 months old and has had bronchitis for 4 months quite badly, been on antibiotics, had been checked through in hospital after breathing problems. He was not allowed to be kept crying for long as it provoked coughing and breathing difficulties.

My mum said she would call us if he started crying for longer than 5 minutes, as we were only a 10 min drive away.
We left at 7.30, both children in bed and asleep.
At 11 I called to find out if it was ok for us to stay longer and heard my son crying and my daughter trying to soothe him. My mum still said he only just started. We raced home, my son was drenched in sweat and was turning blue from lack of oxygen. Ambulance took us to hospital where he was kept for a week, his breathing stopped while being taken there.

My mum never apologised, she said all she wanted was for us to have a nice night out, but basically she thought she knew best and ignored everything I said. My daughter told me he had been crying for hours, and she was very scared because she knew what would happen.
How could my mum do that? She just could not ring and let me come home to settle him because she was is charge and would not admit that It would have taken me 5 mins to calm him down.

OP, of course it would be lovely to have the gp involved, but not if they walk all over your boundaries.

[WestCountryBoil]

Thanks to the PP highlighting the other side of the issue, like curlew and teatimesthree. No interest in MIL bashing - mine has been 99% amazing until the last 6 months and as I said in my mammoth OP I do believe DS would have a lovely time with her. I'm sure I'm hardly the perfect DIL anyway, no one is.

This is about my feelings (the knot in my stomach, feeling undermined and pushes out etc) and whether its right to create a big upset just because of me.

To be honest, the middle route advised by many of you - nicely but firmly establish boundaries a bit and speak up more, until hopefully we all shuffle around a bit and find our space - is certainly the right one to start with, anyway. I'm not just going to dramatically announce "you can't have him!" in the middle of Sunday lunch...

as much as I'd like to

[curlew]

It's also important to remember that leaving your precious baby with anyone is horrible. And I used to, in a secret part of my brain that I don't like, hate it when Dcs had a lovely time with someone else when I was at work. It was almost "How dare they be happy without me there, aren't I the Pole star of their lives?" Well, actually, yes I was, but that didn't stop them forming their own separate and independent relationships with their extended family. My fil fed them crap and bought them outrageous gigantic plastic objects. And let them eat in front of the telly and watch cartoons endlessly. They adored him- but they knew that home rules and grandad rules were different. Never any confusion.

[WestCountryBoil]

curlew can I ask - did your FIL focus every visit on your DC and taking them somewhere away from you, never refer to you as 'mum', sit in silence when you tried to start chats about your newbie parenting ideas, and generally give you the uneasy feeling that he was itching to do everything his way, because it was the right way?

Not trying to be facetious. I just ask because if he did all those things you mentioned (as every GP has the right to do, I believe! GPs = treats and special rules), but also generally made you feel supported and at ease, then we are coming at this quite differently. If he didn't and I've got the wrong end of the stick, I apologise in advance.