Why can't I stop contact with toxic SIL?

[Weta]

There is a 12-year backstory to this, but I consider my brother's wife to be toxic, based on her horrible behaviour to my mum over the years and also to me on occasion.

They've been through 3 cycles of things getting better (generally after my mum has made constructive efforts to repair the relationship) but then SIL goes bad again for little or no apparent reason. SIL has made it impossible for my mum to maintain loving relationships with their DC - at the moment Mum doesn't see SIL, and my brother brings the DC to her place every couple of months (they live 5 mins away). My mum is a wonderful grandmother to my children, and would have been to theirs if given a chance.

I find the whole thing extremely upsetting and have also been on the receiving end of her toxic behaviour myself. I now have a kind of physiological reaction to seeing her where I can't be normal and polite beyond saying hello, and just want to run away and vomit.

I live overseas and only go home every 2 years, and the stress of seeing her ruins my trip every time. I've tried various approaches (reasoning with her, saying I don't want to be in the same place as her and my mum at the same time, reconciliations when things were better with my mum etc) until I finally decided not to see her any more.

The problem is DB, who wants my family and his to play happy families! I thought he'd taken my position on board but on my last trip he assumed we would all get together and I ended up agreeing to apologise for a minor factual mistake I made 2 years ago and to suggest we put things aside for a couple of hours and see each other. SIL wasn't going to reply until I told DB she needed to, and then was still holding onto her grudge and saying she'd been judged unfairly.

At that point I decided (again!) not to see her, and didn't, but there is an expectation that we might see each other on my next visit. But afterwards I got depressed for a couple of weeks and I realise that I really don't want to. My parents (divorced) both agree, as my negative feelings about SIL mean I'm not in a good state to enjoy my time with them when I go home.

AIBU to insist that I don't want contact with her? DB makes me feel like a dreadful person for not wanting to see SIL, and he thinks it's unreasonable for me to support my mum ('two against one'). Personally, I don't understand why SIL insists on seeing me when she clearly doesn't like me any more than I like her, but my feeling is that it's some kind of power game.

YANBU tell your brother no thanks, you don't need the drama when you only get to see your family for a short time every two years.

I wouldn't feel bad or allow anyone to railroad me into meeting up with someone who didn't like me tbh.

Cut contact. Life is too short for this sort of carry on. Don't try to reason or explain with DB or anyone else. Just say sorry DB but you find it stressful, no other explanation needed. (It sounds like there is too much debate and discussion going on about this, don't get into it).

There is no reason why your feelings should be of less importance than DB's or DSIL's.

I suspect that DB is putting similar pressure on toxic SIL for some reason. Believe me I understand the dynamics of toxic families very well and am NC with my mother.
Either way, you have the absolute right to decide who you will spend your precious time back here with. Your DB does not get to decide this. You do. Just keep telling yourself this. As PPs have said, don't get sucked into defending yourself. Just say no and stick to it.

Definitely don't be pressurised into being with this woman or being disloyal to your mother. Your DB may have decided she's worth all this aggro but he chose to marry her and you didn't. I'm not a big fan of No Contact as a rule but, when it comes to siblings, I don't think there is any obligation whatsoever to make an effort.

Thank you all so much for your messages, it really helps to feel that it's ok to do this. I have felt so much pressure to try and resolve things over the years, but every single visit for the last 10 years has ended in confrontations and drama, and I spend the six months beforehand dreading it and the six months afterwards getting over it!

JustinBsMum - I'm still working out how to handle the actual email about it. I was thinking of something like what you suggest but DH thinks that is taking the blame on myself by saying I find it stressful, as if it's my problem that I can't cope. He thinks I should say to my DB exactly why I find SIL so toxic (not that it will come as a shock or anything)... I'm still unsure, although at least the frank explanation would make it hard for DB to misinterpret what I'm saying. I was so happy leading up to the last trip as I had made it clear I wouldn't see her - I couldn't believe it when I got an email saying he'd bring her over to see me the next day and then found myself once again having to deal with the fallout from not wanting to see her.

Ursula8 yes I think that's part of the problem - I get the impression she thinks she's already done her bit by making a huge effort just to turn up, but then comes with all her baggage and no longer makes an effort once we are actually in the same place. DB thinks she wants to come because she loves him so much (bleurgh!), my friend thinks it's a way of staking ownership over him and saying I can't dictate whether she's there or not.

Weta,
First of all, sorry you are going through this.
YANBU.
Consider this idea: You are an adult, and as such, you do not need anyone's permission, endorsement, validation, or support if you decide you need to be NC with toxic sil.

The thing with going NC with someone, however, it can have a spreading (for lack of a better word) effect into your relationships with other people. It is not uncommon (from reading this board for years) for the person going NC with someone, to lose relationships with other people. You may find that your DB decides to distance himself from you, as would be his own decision (unless he is a doormat to his wife ).

Based on what you have written, weta, you may need to make, or risk, that sacrifice for your own mental health.

AndTheBandPlayedOn Thanks, you're right of course!! I had already anticipated last time round that DB might distance himself (or, more likely, that he would feel unable to bring his DC to meet me if SIL was not welcome) but decided that this is a price I am willing to pay if it puts a stop to all the drama and preserves my mental health. I don't have much of a relationship with the DC anyway because the whole thing is so dysfunctional. I think DB would still see me alone but that is of course his choice.

My view is that if you say you don't want to see her as you find it too stressful then there is no argument, you feel X and you are, therefore, doing Y. If you say you are doing it because of DSIL then DB can argue that it won't be so bad, or DSIL has changed or whatever.

DB loves his wife - he may or may not see her faults. If DB really can't see how SIL is, if he thinks she is the victim in all this, he will very likely storm off and go no contact, thus saving you the bother.

Living far away you're shielded from a lot of the drama. Phrase it differently next time you talk to DB:

I respect the choice you made, you are her husband and you'll always be my brother. But don't ask me to pretend there's any love or affection between SIL and me. Whatever goes on between her and the rest of the family, yes I'm aware of it but I'm making my own decision about who I see when I'm home.

I cut contact with my sil a couple of years ago. Her behaviour was so extreme that she could effectively ruin a weekend with one phone call.

It is hard sometimes, family get togethers etc but it is worth it.

We are so much happier as a family. Her behaviour mainly effected Dh, her brother, but spilled over to myself and my daughter.

I completely get the prior dread followed by the period of recovery that you mentioned in your OP. I am NC with my sister.

You have made your position clear, so imho, it is not really necessary to make anymore announcements or reviews of the dynamic with DB as he seems to simply dismiss your feelings. (He does not seem to understand that this will not make your feelings go away, his problem-not yours.)

Decline offers to meet up civilly and politely,as it sounds like you are already doing.

And then, weta, if DB try to orchestrate "accidental" meetings, you are well justified to "speak with your feet" and excuse yourself from the room, restaurant, event, without further explanation. No drama, just, "oh, got to go".

Donkeys DB does love his wife - I think he tries to be even-handed and thinks there have been wrongs on both sides, but his overriding need is for it all to be ok and he seems to have an incurable optimism that it suddenly will be if only he can get us together. Thanks for your suggested wording... it all ends up being by email as we don't talk on the phone (we used to a long time ago but I fear having to speak to SIL).

Lumpy it is so nice to hear that other people have experienced similar feelings, not that I would wish this on anyone else. Until now my mum has been the only person who really understands what it feels like.

AndtheBand Unfortunately I left it that I would try to meet up next time but that we would see how everyone is feeling closer to the time. I was trying so hard to make myself be constructive, but I now feel very strongly that it's not what I want and would not be good for me or the rest of my family. So I will have to make my position clear at some point but can either do that now or wait until I'm actually arranging the trip.

DB tends to just start making arrangements as if it's all fine (and then keep on even when he knows it's not) so I think I will need to be very clear and just say a blanket no in advance to seeing her.

It's a horrible situation to be in and believe me I tried everything to make the relationship work. It got to the point where I could see it was making Dh ill. He has a ridiculously stressful job which he takes in his stride but one call from his sister would floor him.

I think he actually became allergic to her and would have physical symptoms when he met her. It's so hard to explain but some people are just so poisonous.

Everything is much simpler now we have no contact. We don't have to give her any head space.

You have to put your health first.