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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Would you cut contact?

22 replies

extracrunchy · 23/09/2013 19:58

Sorry this is long... Background is basically my mum and I don't get on. She's classic narcissist, totally disinterested in me or DS 90% of the time, constantly picking fights, can't stand attention being off her, blah blah.

It's always been the case so I've tolerated it and DS adores her (she encourages him to be naughty and he loves it), so I've pushed to keep seeing her despite it being regularly bloody unpleasant.

Anyway, last night she made a joke at dinner about not wanting to look old enough to have a 30 year old daughter (I just turned 30) and maybe she should tell people "boo hoo hoo I had a terrible time when I was 16 and I was raped" - I said it wasn't very funny (because she knows exactly this happened to me when I was 16, except there were 5 men who drugged and repeatedly raped me).

Just now she texted...
"I can't spend the rest of my. Life padding around you - the past is past - move on - it was again your choice to have a friend like Katie who was like that. And stop forever criticising - you are not exactly perfect either"

(Katie is the friend I was out with, also aged 16, and no less to blame than I was.)

In other words - it's not her problem, why shouldn't she make rape jokes? She's supposed to be my mum!! Obviously she has no idea how an experience like that stays with you, but more importantly, she's basically said it was my fault that aged 16 I went out for a drink with my mate and 5 adult men drugged me and repeatedly attacked me.

I'm shocked and so hurt she thinks this, and don't want DS to lose his grandma, but honestly don't think I can get past this and be in the same room with her again.

What would you do?

OP posts:
TurnipCake · 23/09/2013 20:19

I'd cut contact, you don't need this in your life. I'm sorry that happened to you x

Whocansay · 23/09/2013 20:29

Anyone who can say something that vile to their own child shouldn't be a mother. You don't need her permission to cut contact. I wouldn't want someone who is so utterly without empathy anywhere near my child.

I have recently distanced myself from several family members. You don't need a big showdown. You simply stop calling and don't pick up when they call you.

I'm so sorry that it happened to you.

Tonandfeather · 23/09/2013 20:30

I'd look at this differently and think that you're protecting your child from the horrible influences you've been subjected to all your life, by this woman's presence in it.

You wouldn't want that for your children would you? You didn't want it for yourself, but you had no choice in it, sadly. You do have a choice now to insulate them from ever having someone this poisonous in their lives. Grab it with both hands.

mrsmartin1984 · 23/09/2013 20:33

I don't know how she can have so little sympathy. Of course she shouldn't joke about it EVER. Cut her out she sounds like a truely toxic person to be around

something2say · 23/09/2013 22:09

Yes I would probably cut contact for that statement. You must be so angry with her! What a shockingly selfish and shirt sighted, blaming statement to have ma, and to your own daughter!!!!!! Yes she may be loved by your son but only because she hasn't hurt him yet. X

Gosh yes, cut contact, and tell her why if you can, and then see lots of your friends whom you trust and expect a bit of a bumpy ride for a while xxx. But you'll be fine once you get used to it.

extracrunchy · 23/09/2013 22:49

You're all right, I do need to. It's especially difficult right now though because I'm due with DD in a couple of months. So there's this weird inbuilt bit of me wanting my mum, but at the same time my DCs don't deserve to ever feel like this and I know at some point she'll hurt them too Sad

OP posts:
Hubb · 23/09/2013 22:56

I agree with the others. I think you should cut contact for yourself and for your son. Long term there is nothing she can offer him and there is potential for her to damage him too like she has damaged you.

I cannot believe what she said to you...and this is probably just a small part of everything she has put you through over the years.

Don't feel bad for your son, do what's right for you at this time. Cutting contact will get easier over time, good luck and keep coming on here for support if needed.

Clobbered · 23/09/2013 23:00

Jeepers, she is truly vile. Since when was rape a subject for jokes in any context whatsoever?
Do the right thing for your kids and keep them a safe distance away from her. She is unhinged.

Custardo · 23/09/2013 23:04

best thing to do is not make a song and dance about it - dont text back now

leave it a few days, don't text back

then dont ever text back

the texts will get more vile - or an excuse will come up - until she has to come round

only at this point tell her you will be out

there doesn't have to be a final showdown, just ignore her

YOUCANBEMYFRIENDIFYOUBUYMECAKE · 24/09/2013 12:57

you poor thing. that must have been a horrendous experience.
If it was my family I would have to distance my self to avoid any more comments/insults.
you should be having love and support not being treated in this way by the ones that love you the most.
have you spoken to your GP about counselling.
Focus on yourself and your children now. X

CogitoErgoSometimes · 24/09/2013 13:12

You probably should cut contact but I don't think you will. That's not a criticism, just a suggestion that you need a different approach that reflects reality. It may involve being a bit more distant without cutting contact completely. It'll almost certainly mean operating a 'zero tolerance' policy on any more offensive remarks. You need a game-plan that severely trims her wings but satisfies your requirements at the same time.

extracrunchy · 24/09/2013 13:19

Cogito it's ok I know what you mean. Nothing positive comes from spending time with her and this has really been the last straw, but stupidly I'm still assuming we'll see her at some point. I'm going to ignore all further contact for now and won't initiate any. I need to be tougher about it because I do not want her to impact on my DC.

The other problem is that my sister (who is hugely important to me) is severely disabled and lives with my mother, so I'm worried about being able to see her if I've cut contact. There's a good chance my mother will try to prevent me from seeing my sister if I'm not in contact with her. Ugh...

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 24/09/2013 13:31

You see, I'm from a family that does a lot of NC-ing. IME it solves absolutely nothing. The NC-er feels guilty or finds it causes them problems (like being excluded from family events or losing contact with other relatives). The NC-ee either couldn't care less or doesn't notice they've been dropped. I think quietly keeping your distance without making it 'officially' NC makes it less final and gives you more scope. My other observation is that having strict boundaries when you are with the difficult relative, being assertive and cutting things short before they have chance to upset you does more for your self-respect than simply running away.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 24/09/2013 14:57

It is not possible to my mind to have any sort of relationship with a narcissist. Going no contact with a narcissistic parent can bring with it all sorts of benefits in the long term because you will not be afraid anymore. You've already had hell on earth in the shape of her.

Your son is basically being used by his grandmother as a sort of narcissistic supply; she will chew him up when she is bored with him.
This person has not fundamentally changed from the time you were a child.

The error here too was to allow your son to have any sort of relationship with his nan in the first place. If she is too toxic or difficult for your son to deal with then she is certainly too toxic for your child to have any sort of contact with.

Cutting contact is the way forward here although you will have to deal with the fallout from same i.e FOG - fear, obligation, guilt.

Would also suggest you read the website entitled Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers.

extracrunchy · 25/09/2013 11:28

Had a text from mum this morning:
"Do u want lunch to sort out row? Xx"

I don't and I won't, but it's the first time she's acknowledged an issue and offered to address it. Thing is, it's a lot more than a "row" and it won't be sorted out because she is who she is.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 25/09/2013 11:36

It's a start. But as we're talking about power-balances here the answer to that text is 'I'll check my diary'. If she suggests a place, pick somewhere different. If she suggests a time, make it half an hour earlier or later. You get the idea. I know it sounds like game-playing but it's important to be the one running the show and setting the pace rather than simply falling in with requests.

MerryMarigold · 25/09/2013 11:51

I was very shocked at your post and your Mum's reaction. She sounds pretty awful. I do think though, for the sake of your relationship with your sister, you need to keep up some contact, but as cogito says, it needs to be within very strict boundaries.

Here's a suggestion, but I don't really have personal experience. I would say you are happy to talk but under these conditions:

  • she reads and digests a letter you write first (it does sound like it takes her a while to get her head around things)
In the letter you can express exactly why what she initially said was terrible and why her text was even worse. Suggest meeting in a couple of weeks.
  • if she still wants to get together that's fine, sort out a time and day
  • if she wants to distance herself when you express yourself to her, then she can't blame you and you get to still see your sister (she gets to be 'in control' of your relationship with her by choosing not to speak to you, but ultimately you get what you want which is a relationship with your sister).

Do you have a father? Can your sister ever come and stay with you or do you need a lot of stuff?

extracrunchy · 25/09/2013 11:52

I don't think I'd be able to stay calm if we met any time soon. What she said was unforgivable and I need some time, so I just said I don't want to see her at the moment.

OP posts:
extracrunchy · 25/09/2013 11:57

A letter is a good idea. I'll definitely think about that.
My dad is divorced from my mum (not surprisingly!) and lives overseas. Their relationship is very very difficult, and he's quite eager to jump on board if I fall out with her, so his influence isn't very considered or helpful. I haven't mentioned this to him yet as I'm not really sure how it will impact.
Sis can stay with me but it is complicated logistically and everything is controlled and organised by mum, unfortunately.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/09/2013 12:37

Hi extracrunchy,

re your comment:-

Had a text from mum this morning:
"Do u want lunch to sort out row? Xx"

I don't and I won't, but it's the first time she's acknowledged an issue and offered to address it. Thing is, it's a lot more than a "row" and it won't be sorted out because she is who she is.

Exactly.

Also your DS does not need a toxic grandmother. She has not changed since she was herself a child.

As Cog states you need to state I'll check my diary and leave it at that. Do not make any further overtures. If you were to meet your mother (and thankfully you will not) it will be her having a right old go at you the whole time. These people are completely without empathy for others, she is not interested in you or anyone else for that matter. All that matters to her is her own self and her own needs being met by you.

It's very hard to have a simple, uncomplicated good time with a narcissist. Except for odd spells of heady euphoria unrelated to anything you can see, their affective range is mediocre-fake-normal to hell-on-Earth. They will sometimes lie low and be quiet, actually passive and dependent -- this is as good as it gets with narcissists. They are incapable of loving conduct towards anyone or anything, so they do not have the capacity for simple pleasure, beyond the satisfaction of bodily needs.

There is only one way to please a narcissist (and it won't please you): that is to indulge their every whim, cater to their tiniest impulses, bend to their views on every little thing. There's only one way to get decent treatment from narcissists: keep your distance. They can be pretty nice, even charming, flirtatious, and seductive, to strangers, and will flatter you shamelessly if they want something from you. When you attempt to get close to them in a normal way, they feel you are putting emotional pressure on them and they withdraw because you're too demanding. They can be positively fawning and solicitous as long as they're afraid of you, which is not most people's idea of a real fun relationship.

As for her "offer of lunch":-

Run for cover when they start acting normal, maybe expressing a becoming self-doubt or even acknowledging some little fault of their own, such as saying they now realize that they haven't treated you right or that they took advantage of you before. They're just softening you up for something really nasty. These people are geniuses of "Come closer so I can slap you." Except that's not the way they think about it, if they think about it no, they're thinking, "Well, maybe you do really care about me, and, if you really care about me, then maybe you'll help me with this," only by "help" they mean do the whole thing, take total responsibility for it, including protecting and defending them and cleaning up the mess they've already made of it (which they will neglect to fill you in on because they haven't really been paying attention, have they, so how would they know??). They will not have considered for one second how much of your time it will take, how much trouble it may get you into in their behalf, that they will owe you BIG for this no, you're just going to do it all out of the goodness of your heart, which they are delighted to exploit yet again, and your virtue will be its own reward: it's supposed to just tickle you pink to be offered this generous opportunity of showing how much you love them and/or how lucky you are to be the servant of such a luminous personage. No lie they think other people do stuff for the same reason they do: to show off, to perform for an audience. That's one of the reasons they make outrageous demands, put you on the spot and create scenes in public: they're being generous they're trying to share the spotlight with you by giving you the chance to show off how absolutely stunningly devoted-to-them you are. It means that they love you; that's why they're hurt and bewildered when you angrily reject this invitation.

Appearances are all there is with narcissists -- and their self-hatred knows no bounds.

Do not write a letter to your mother either, this will be used against you by her. I would instead suggest you write an open letter to your mother then destroy it afterwards.

extracrunchy · 25/09/2013 13:25

Attila thank you for taking the time to write that. It's almost spooky - every single thing you've said could have been written specifically about my mum.

It's very comforting to hear there are other people experiencing the same thing. You'll probably know growing up with it means I'm fairly easily convinced by her I'm being unfair/hurtful/dramatic but it's empowering to learn it's not my fault and I'm not being unreasonable by deciding not to have it any more.

OP posts:
queenbitchapparently · 25/09/2013 20:39

Get rid.
I have/had a family member who was always making "jokes"
Read that insulting me with a smile.
I no longer see her my life is so much better.

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