Don't start from here

[Elastoplaster]

I came across MM a couple of months ago but signed up to ask this one. I’ve been with DP/DW for almost 20 yrs and we have couple of DC’s. Life is basically gd with DW apart from a small elephant that sits in a corner of my head. I’m one of ?% of males who has desires to present as female. Mostly I prefer male. It’s something that’s been bouncing around since childhood but for much of the time it was very background. I experimented a few times with crossdressing in my early teens but then it subsided until my mid-20’s. It becomes quite an intense feeling every few years but then reverts to something I don’t need to do anything about. Number of times dressed as female wld be less than once a year in adult life. There’s a very helpful thread on MM “womens attitude to crossdressing” which I can’t add much too. My crunch point is this; I worked round to telling all women before DW (and a couple of platonic’s since) that this was factor with me but never told DW. It’s not something I feel great about and you could characterize dressing as being with OW – but its not an OW you can delete from yr mobile; when tried it makes me tense over time. But telling will raise issues about my identity as male and DW’s as female and cld end up unwinding our relationship. So out or not? I should add that if I thought DW was the sort of person who cld easily manage this sort of information I wld have told her long ago.

Are you suppressing your desire to dress as a woman? You say you only do it once a year but do you want to do it more often?

I have a cople of friends with cross dressing husbands, they cope ok but it's not without issues so i Can understand why you might be reluctant to tell your wife.

Does this come from a sexuality thing or is it purely presenting yourself as a woman? I mean when you are presenting as a woman would you describe yourself as a lesbian?
Would you present as a woman at home or would you like to do it in public or full time?
I don't see anything wrong with it

I know nothing what so ever about cross dressing. But I wonder if it could be worth having counselling with somebody who specialises in LGBT, so you can explore openly what it is you want for yourself or vocalise different scenarios and potential outcomes.

Why you have been able to tell other partners, but not your DW? Was their reaction helpful, curious or disdainful and has other peoples reaction affected your reluctance to discuss with your wife. Or perhaps it has been a comment made by your wife in the past re gender reassignment or cross dressing that's preventing you from sharing.

Are the feelings getting more intense now? If you've been together 20 years and happy to manage it in secret during all that time, through the pressures of new babies and child-rearing, what is different now that makes you want to bring it out into the open?

Is it simply cross-dressing, or when you say you want to "present" as female do you mean it goes deeper than that and involves your feelings about gender identity?

similar question to other posters - is it just the thrill of dressing and trying on an opposite gender role, OR is it anything to do with bi-sexuality, i.e.when dressed you turn on your bi-sexuality and can fancy men?
Also, why do you need to tell your wife: so that you can do it more openly/in public/more frequently, or is it because you feel you aer not being honest with her but this wouldn't increase the dressing up?

Personally I think I could handle this if my partner only did it occasionally, in fact I'd find it attractive and a bit of thrill if when dressed my partner would still be attarcted to me (but iit is an 'if' - I'm actually very curious whether attarctionj to your partner can possibly remain when cross-dressing?). Your wife possibly suspects a little, so may not be as shocked as you think, especially if you adopt mannerisms instead of dressing sometimes, or on the days you do dress (as

sorry, that was end of sentence after 'dress'.

"So out or not? I should add that if I thought DW was the sort of person who cld easily manage this sort of information I wld have told her long ago."

What exactly do you want to achieve by telling? Are you motivated by selfishness or some naive idea about truth and honesty? You mention that it's like an 'OW' and I think the parallel would be if you were obsessing about someone else but hadn't taken it any further. i.e. If you know your partner is going to be unhappy finding out about it and you don't want to risk the relationship failing then you continue remain very discrete about your habit & keep your fantasies entirely to yourself. If you're motivated by wanting to be honest and open and you think destroying the relationship is worth the risk, by all means spill your guts but plan for the worst outcome.

DuelingFanjo I could describe it as suppressing but I could describe it as putting it in boundaries; probably not allowing it to start to dominate my thought. I mean I could describe flirting with some nice woman I meet but not following it up with trying to kiss them a form of suppression but it’s also just not a place I choose to go (mostly). I’m not beating myself up with suppression.
Yougotbale I wouldn’t remotely like to be fulltime or even frequently dressed. I’m in a network of relationships I value based around my male self. That could unravel.It is in some sense sexual I guess as sexuality is part of identity.
Minx179 I did have some counseling in my late 20’s. I better understand why I have the need to do this (when I do) but knowing more doesn’t lessen the need. Women, like men are in a range from people who enjoy being self aware and pushing their own boundaries to those happier functioning in their established frameworks. DW is probably in the latter and that's not her problem
Dahlen I am currently in a more intense phase and it is often connected with external (work) stress that requires me to be quite tough (a role I generally externally seem ok with). I don’t think it’s a simple issue of gender identity. I’m as sure as one can be that I don’t want to be female rather than males – except on a few days.
beaglearesweet there is definitely a thrill element –perhaps that would subside if I did it more often. I don’t think I wld fancy men but I might fancy playing the role of a woman who wanted to play at fancying them. I don’t want to tell DW so I can do it more; it might lead to places I don’t want to go and I don’t think not exploring is always bad. DW probably does suspect a little bit but probably also doesn’t allow herself to think that.
CogitoErgoSometimes if I was naïve I would simply tell DW but it’s because I see it as potentially destructive I hold back. But I don’t want to recognise myself on MM one day as the subject of the thread “ I just found a stash of clothes my DH wears” and have to manage the issue of the dressing and the keeping something secret simultaneously. I don’t see having secrets as wrong but having destructive secrets is dangerous.

so the main reason is, you don't want to shock your DW, in case she finds out by chance? meaning you think she may leave you for the lies as well as your habit? Whereas if you tell her at least she would be gently told and would appreciate your honesty, maybe. So either be more careful, or do risk and tell her. Really I can't see what other options are there!

And what do you mean that keeping the secret may be destructive, in what way? you losing control? feeling not accepted and resentful on some level? I wonder if just sharing it with someone you know in RL would be enough, so that you don't carry the secret. Or is it the honesty with DW that's more of an issue than the danger to your mental state? I think if it's the danger to your mental state you really should tell and then just deal with consequences, as it's really not worth losing your mental stability over, whatever wife's resction is. It could be a burden to her, but again, all depends on your motive, choose what's more important.

"“ I just found a stash of clothes my DH wears” "

If that happens then it will because you have, consciously or subconsciously, set the situation up, and that would be both cowardly and cruel. It was very disrespectful and dishonest to go into marriage not having revealed what you say is an important part of your personality and there's no getting away from that. As it'll be destructive whether you continue to keep the secret or not, I increasingly think the only choice open to you is to be honest.

I agree with cog.

On a broader level I would worry about sexism with cross dressing, also with the marrying dw without telling her which to me denotes you want to own rather than love her. But you've read the other thread.

I find the phrase "presenting as female" quite distasteful because of the things mentioned on that other thread.

I think you put the options well in your first paragraph beaglearesweet. However I think my motives to consider telling lie deeper. Probably I am looking for acceptance from those I love and value that this is part of being me and that that's still ok -which obviously involves telling to obtain. But if that acceptance is at the cost of questioning in DW her adequacy or functioning as a woman in a relationship with a man that wouldn't be a price worth paying. So I suppose I didn't express my question clearly enough in my first post. What I'm trying to think through is what impact this information is likely to have on how a woman thinks about herself and her relationship. Cogito the post is headed "Dont start from here" but dishonesty about our inner self doesn't seem to me to be so straightforward as you describe. I wonder how much any of us knows of our deepest self to tell another in our mid-20's or understand then what we will feel like in our mid 40's?It was not something that was so much in my consciousness at the time. Actually I did raise the issue but felt it was a place that DW didn't want to go. -whereas others had made it easier for me. But I'm not trying to pass blame because DW doesn't have an obligation to be anything other than what she is -after that it's my choice.

Suppressed desires and compulsions become harder to contain as we get older.
If you tell your DW you may feel you can dress as a female more openly and more often which may bring more problems. However is it right to live a lie. Only you can decide how you want to live your life.

"Actually I did raise the issue but felt it was a place that DW didn't want to go. -whereas others had made it easier for me."

If we only ever follow the easy route, follow others and never have the tough conversations all we end up with is a mess of compromises and zero self-respect. I'm the first person to suggest that, even in a marriage or other close relationship, there's no automatic necessity to lay all the grisly secrets bare. 'Let sleeping dogs lie' and so on. But your dog is wide awake and pulling you towards the door by your metaphorical trouser leg. I'd say that was pretty straightforward

Offred i agree with you about sexism and cross dressing. Sexism is around most things men do. I don't follow your point about owning rather than loving but I'll think about it. Jojoanna I think it's more complex than suppression as I wasn't actually suppressing in my 20's - it just wasn't consciously pressing on me at that time. I don't think suppression captures my situation much generally. Cogito I can readily recognise what I should have done when I and DP/DW got together - but reading back into what we should have done can apply to a number of things and doesn't help much with deciding what to do now

Sounds to me like you know she will have a really hard time hearing it, (as would I), and you need to be very sure you are willing to rock that boat. It sounds like you'd have a lot to lose.

which is kind of odd isn't it -this hard time hearing it (and it's just a fact not a criticism)

Yes but you have suppressed the desire to tell DW.

elasto - I would go further and say sexism, particularly misogyny, affects most people, not just men. I know it affects me too. I hugely respect your post directed to me. I recognise identifying that doesn't help you with a compulsion - is that the right word?

Re the other comment, I mean that in order to have a relationship of equals you do need to talk and share important things. I totally agree with cog that that doesn't mean sharing everything and people need privacy but this I think is an important thing to you and something you sensed would be important to her but in a negative sense and so you made a unilateral decision to not tell her. Or at least that's how it sounds.

I hope you could accept that that would have been/is the wrong decision because you would have taken away her right to choose her own boundaries and that by making that decision on your own you have kept for yourself some power (although I'm sure it will have been torturous for you to live a lie). I'm not suggesting that you don't love her, however in that decision you are demonstrating that your priority is having and keeping her rather than showing her respect and love.

It sounds as though you married young though and perhaps didn't have the level of confidence or bravery required to make a better decision?

Anyway, it sounds as though she might be hurt to discover this about you and you being concerned about her finding out by accident I think is a real concern. I suppose I might think the best thing to do would be to come clean and talk it through at this point. You might lose her but you won't be suppressing a part of yourself and I suspect she would respect you more for coming clean than if she found out by accident.

and going over the initial choice to hide it will help you with now because although you have lived a lot of life since then if you tell your wife or she finds out and you are honest she will be thrown back in time to that part of your relationship, she'll likely be questioning everything and your thought processes and your explanations about what was happening then and since then will matter very much to her I would think and might even determine whether she feels able to continue the relationship.

it sounds as though she might be hurt to discover this about you and you being concerned about her finding out by accident I think is a real concern. I suppose I might think the best thing to do would be to come clean and talk it through at this point. You might lose her but you won't be suppressing a part of yourself and I suspect she would respect you more for coming clean than if she found out by accident

I second this. It'll surface by itself one day otherwise and that's not fair on anyone, yourself included.

Offred thanks. It seems to me there’s a very deep tension between seeing another primarily as a sexual object – which is dehumanizing and demeaning - and the role sexual fantasy has in stretching our creative experience. Probably the line is drawn by the issue of consent – but it is of course very difficult and impractical to truly know what is in the head of another (which is fluid anyway) to consent to it.
I don’t run with
“you made a unilateral decision to not tell her. you would have taken away her right to choose her own boundaries and that by making that decision on your own you have kept for yourself some power” analysis.
Every decision not to tell someone something is of necessity unilateral. Before we moved in together I hadn’t ever dressed as women do and didn’t know where the thoughts/feelings to do so wld end up. I can think of several 2,3,4 year periods since then when I have not dressed and thoughts about it have been very occasional. Are you saying that not telling someone your deepest thoughts about yourself, about them or anyone else is somehow unfair and dis-empowering?
Your comments seem all too logical to me (whether I agree with them or not) Most of us operate at the emotional psychological level rather than the logical one (whatever that is) For better or worse most of feel comfortable in our own sexual identity through the validation of that identity by another/others. If I empty my head to DW about the ambiguous nature of the boundaries to my own sexual identity I will probably create unease in herself about her own identity. Of course at the theoretical level we might all come out of it wiser stronger more rounded people but the reality is all/most of us are bruised and vulnerable in many ways and it might just be a cock up for a whole family. So what I started this thread to do was to get advice as to how women would FEEL if they had this conversation –and primarily how they would feel about themselves (rather than feel about their partner)