Confused and unsure about relationship

[Needadviceandfast]

As per a suggestion from another poster, I'm starting my own thread as on the back of another one I've become faced with a dilemna this weekend.

Here's the link to the other thread... hope this works

And here's what I said...

I'm in a similar position - together for over 4 years and living together for nearly 2. The difference for me is I already have children from a previous marriage and don't want to have any more, DP says he doesn't want kids of his own. My DP knows I want to get married - he knew this before he moved in with us and there have been several conversations about how he 'probably will want to one day' and 'isn't quite ready yet'. This is interspersed with comments like ''we can't afford it / I can't afford a ring' and 'let's wait til things are better between us' (no major issues, just usual couple stuff, what relationship is perfect?).

I can't imagine my life without him but similarly I want to get married, be part of a equal married partnership and provide a stable parentage for my children (their Dad hardly sees them and is useless). If he doesn't want the same then he isn't the man for me... But how long do I wait for him to be ready for this? I'm also early 30s.

And here was my update. Apologies that this is all so disjointed...

Ahh that went well. Just had a chat about it (strike while the iron's hot!). Apparently he's warming to the idea of marriage more and more, but wants us to have no niggles/arguments/issues for 'a prolonged spell' before properly considering it. I have a history of depression and he says he's worried that I've built marriage up to be the be all and end all, and that after the wedding I'll realise it's not all great and sink into a deep depression

He says I'm putting pressure on him and it sounds like an ultimatum... He got cross with me even though I stayed really calm, and he's stormed off upstairs.

Oh and the idea of organising a wedding sounds like his worst nightmare. We aren't even reading from the same book, let alone from the same page...

Hm, well that doesn't sound great. Does he generally storm off?

Assuming you're not shouting at each other into the small hours several times a month, he's being unrealistic about the arguments/niggles and it sounds a lot like an excuse. Especially as he doesn't offer to define "a prolonged spell".

I'm usually the one to storm off if anything... Generally because I'm on the verge of tears. We argue a few times a month but nothing major I don't think.

My problem now is that I really don't know what to do next...

go to relate, he is right to not want to get married if he thinks you both have problems, He could be right about depression after wedding - who nkows. Get couple counselling and then you will both be sure before you do it. Your dcs have him as a dad already they won't feel more secure because of a wedding. they think it is for life as hes moved in!!!

Apparently he's warming to the idea of marriage more and more, but wants us to have no niggles/arguments/issues for 'a prolonged spell' before properly considering it

To me this would be a big red flag... If he really wanted to marry you he would! He's setting conditions for his commitment. Marriage is about no strings attached commitment.

Sounds like it's not really about marriage at all, he just isn't ready to commit to you! Sorry :(

You deserve so much better. Someone who will jump through hoops to be with you, not someone who gives you a trial period to see if he wants to marry you or not!

I posted the above before following your link to the other thread. Looks like other people have given similar advice :(

Youo really do deserve so much better!

I did that for 13 years. You don't want the same thing.

We've been split up now for 3 years. (so this was all 16 years ago that we started the relationship).

We're still friends, and in fact went out for a curry a couple of weeks ago, it was his birthday. So mid-meal he's asking me what I want in life. I say I'm not sure. He says, 'so when are we getting married then?'

I absconded for a ciggie.

For a fleeting moment I thought 'shall I try again?'. Answer to self was no.

Dc's are almost offhand, he didn't do it then. And I'm not doing it now. He had his chance. And he's got older and has an allotment .

That's so not where I'm going. I'm going partying

Thanks again for the replies. Cjel's reply is what I worry about - am I making something out of nothing? In lots of ways we're happy together but I have an underlying feeling that I'm not his version of 'the one'. I feel like if I was, he'd have proposed years ago. How do I get past that feeling? And if I can't get past it, what do I do? Our lives are so intertwined I don't know where to begin in ending it.

It may be he's never going to want to commit, it may be he's not sure your relationship is strong enough (fwiw I wouldn't have married someone I rowed with several times a month although I know many people would have no problem with this).

Anyway, I don't think you need to second guess him. At the end of the day marriage is important to you, and you don't want to wait indefinitely to get married. That's fair enough, I don't think you should ignore it.

Decide how much longer you are prepared to wait, then act on it. Start thinking about how to disengage yourself if he just won't commit. Where would you live, how would you support yourself etc. It may be that knowing you are not stuck will make marriage less important and, if not, you'll be set to go.

I think you can gert over it all if you have the counselling and then it will become clear what the 'IT' isxx

my 2p worth.

Ask yourself WHY marriage is important? to you, now? Is if for the financial protection? are you raising his children? is it for the legal protections? the being NOK, the protection for you if he were to die suddenly ? Is it to proclaim to the world that you are a couple? Do you believe that couples who are married have made a greater commitment than those who are not ? there are many different points of view regarding this. No reason is 'wrong' but defining what is your reason for wanting to get married will help clarify tings

why now ? do you believe you have 'waited' long enough? are you sure he is your ideal partner and your relationship will weather storms? is there outside pressure? financial pressure ? do you want more children and want to be married first?

Then think of the negatives. Marriage is primarily a legal contract and very easy to do, much harder to undo. Wat do you stand to lose if it goes wrong ? financially, emotionally ?

weigh these things up. ideally with a trusted and close friend/family member. Really, weigh them up. The add in his less than enthusiastic response. Why is this? is he afraid it will go wrong and he will lose financially? Has he identified weak spots in your relationship that you are not (yet) willing to admit/see. ?

Unfortunately this is not something you can sweep under the carpet and just pretend it does not exist.

Sorry to be blunt, but I read this as boiling down to "if you behave well enough to meet my (unexplained) stabpndards, perhaps I'll think about marriage. Think about it, that is, not actually do it. And I'll wrap this up with a bit of concern for your well-being so it's harder for you to criticise me"

He's not doing this because of possible depression, or myriad other bits of flannel. He just doesn't want to marry you, but will dangle a possible future (totally on his terms) to keep his current domestic set up.

Up to you whether you settle for it or not. Does he have other good qualities that outweigh his attitude on this?

All the things you hope marriage will bring wont just magically appear because there's been a wedding.

He is reluctant to marry you - that cannot possibly lead to the equality and stability you want.

Even if he gave in it would be the same relationship, with the same imbalance of commitment just a hell of a lot more difficult to get out of if things get worse.

I honestly will never understand why someone would push for marriage to someone who requires pushing. I don't say that to pick at you, it seems a fairly common thing...I just truly find it bizarre.

I think his concern that you've built the idea of marriage up a lot is a reasonable one. You shouldn't get married because it will change your life. You should get married because you are so happy that you don't want your life to change. Maybe you will expect too much from marriage and become depressed afterwards?
I also think his concern about planning a wedding is reasonable. It is a nightmare.
However his set of standards that you have to fall into is stupid and pointless. Be a good girl for a given time and you'll get what you want. It seems like bribery to me.
Why do you want to push him to get married? Won't you always worry that he did it because he was pushed rather than because he wanted to? Why is marriage so important to you? Why do you want to marry someone who isn't keen on the idea?

From what you say, I suspect you need to look at your relationship with a clinical eye.

Were you depressed before?
Why do you storm off and why do you get close to tears?

Are you really happy that you want to marry him?

When exH proposed I had that feeling that our relationship needed to get better first, but got carried away and I do regret (apart from ds) not ending it there.

Do not hang on to it because you need to be in a relationship.
Even if he's not manipulating you (quite possible- as you're the one in tears and his reaction was odd) he's telling you your relationship is not good enough for him. He's not suggesting ways forward or counselling. He's blaming you and he's likely to leave at some point or keep you as back up plan, while dangling the carrot in front of you.
Listen to what he says.
Always listen carefully to what men tell you.