Another needing outside perspective

[notsurewhattothink99]

Hello,
Name changed, mostly lurker, no children but TTC married 2 years together for 10. This is long and I apologise now.
I'm not sure if I'm BU or if DH's behaviour would be alarming to others.
I'll start from the beginning.
He had a building job with his dad and all his friends were my friends too. Then he got another job in a call centre and had lots of new friends who I don't know. Female friends which really didn't bother me so much. (I don't have male friends that he doesn't know but I trusted him enough with girlfriends so it was fine.)
Fine until I noticed how precious he was over his mobile phone. He still is, won't leave it anywhere, takes it everywhere (toilet/shower) constantly on it, to the point I think it's a slight addiction. I look at FB a lot on my phone but not from dusk till dawn.
Anyway, over a year ago I got really curious, he went to a works do and got really, really, drunk. Our friend who works at the same place he does got her BF to bring him home, he'd ripped all his clothes got a bloody face all sorts of mess. I put him to bed and took his phone and went through it. I was really ashamed to do it, breach of trust and all that, but found so much flirting and flirt/sex-speak it was shattering.
The flirting was with a girl at work, he was so concerned about her well being through all the messages, telling her she was beautiful lots of kisses and winky faces and messaging her every day, sometimes up to several times a day.
The flirty/sexy-speak was with a Z list celebrity on FB. I know it was actually her account as all the photos were very personal photos. Lets just say she's quite the potty mouthed slut!
Anyway, I had it out with him the next day, he apologised for the celeb thing but not for the friend thing. Said there was nothing going on and that she's just a mate.
I love my husband very much and really don't want to break up. So I forgave him but told him I wanted his FB login as I needed transparency. He begrudgingly agreed.
I let the friend thing go, as I know there is no physical relationship, but still wonder if its an EA? I really don't know where the line is?
I know they have bought each other daft presents, he never tells me but I have found out.
He seems to talk to her more than he does me, he spends a lot of time at the gym so we don't seem to spend much time together at home.
In one way I believe him that they are just friends, but IABU to think this relationship is odd?
Shamefully after reading about EA's on here last night I logged into his FB to read his PM's. He's still messaging her most days. Very recently;
She's very sad about something, he told her
'Any time your sad, i'll be here to make you smile x' (winky face), in another message jokingly said he'd go to France with her, she said he could keep her company while she sunbathed; him 'Sounds like a plan I'm there x' (winky face)
She said in another message 'i'm just going to carry on lying down not in my pants...I mean in my clothes...with pants on....God that's not a good image' (Said in context to him saying he was doing sit ups in his pants, she made a 'typo' deliberately?)
Him 'I liked it haha, got a bit excited x'
She said 'hahaha at least someone is! x'
And in another message, she's been talking about leaving work and her stay in France, she said 'hope I'm better by the time I get back, we'll soon see' he said 'hope it does its not the same without you. x'
So WWYD? If I let him know I've seen them, he'll go mad at me that I don't trust him and have been invading his privacy, which I am guilty of, but even though I know they don't meet up in person I can't help but feel he's emotionally involved here.
My confidence is rock bottom, since coming off the pill, I've got terrible acne and put on weight, I feel so, so ugly and she's beautiful, he has load more in common with her and where I'm sure he loves me, just lately I don't feel like he's attracted to me.
God this is so long and rambly, I'm so sorry, I just don't know what to think and whether to just let it go. She might leave work anyway, he's looking to get back into building and I do anything for a quiet life. Perhaps if I don't rock the boat now it will fizzle out and we can get back to how it was in the beginning (mutual friends only).
God I sound so pathetic. :,(

I would speak to him and say exactly what you said above. He has no right to carry on like this when he has a wife at home.

I'm sorry you're feeling so miserable.

First of all, please stop TTC. Bringing a baby into this mix is a very bad idea for all sorts of reasons. Any insecurities about your appearance will be magnified a thousandfold. Instead of feeling like you've got something that will cement your relationship you will feel more vulnerable than ever. And if it all goes horribly wrong, you could end up a single parent. A baby always turns any cracks in a relationship into huge chasms.

There are no excuses for your H's behaviour. His texting is completely inappropriate. This isn't just a friendship that has got carried away, this is full-on flirting. Even if he never goes so far as to have sex with another woman, the level of disrespect shown to you is immense. Please don't feel this is your fault and that if you were just better looking/more interesting he would be different. If he put in the same degree of effort in your relationship as he does with these 'innocent' friendships, I suspect you wouldn't be posting on here in the first place. He has chosen to behave like this. Nothing you have done has made him do that.

I would not let this go. If you do, I'm pretty positive that eventually you'll find yourself cast in the role of wife whose husband has had an affair. You need to make it clear this sort of behaviour is unacceptable. Whether he chooses to listen to that is another matter entirely, of course. As long as you give off the vibes that you just want this to go away and have a quiet life, the temptation for him is to promise you the earth but just carry on exactly as he is while being a bit more discreet. You could end up doubting your own sanity and losing your self-respect.

I know you don't want to admit to snooping on him, and ordinarily I'd agree that invading someone's privacy is a heinous crime. However, if you felt more secure you wouldn't have done it. His behaviour has been a factor in your snooping. If he hadn't done anything, that would make you the one with the issues and needing to make a heartfelt apology, but the fact that he's been behaving completely inappropriately goes to show that your instincts were telling you something for a reason, so your snooping is now a separate issue to his flirting. The one does not justify the other. He still has a case to answer.

Can I ask why you fear the relationship ending so badly? What's the worst that would happen? Would being single again be any worse than living with this crippling insecurity and constant erosion of your self-esteem? What is it that worries you so much? What do you think you can you do to put yourself in a position where leaving is an attractive option if your DH refuses to shape up? How about spending more time on friendships and hobbies? Ironically, this will probably make your DH more attentive.

Good luck.

Thanks for your replies. I already doubt my sanity. I feel like its me blowing things out of proportion, he has a way of making it seem that way.
He's just told me that its not meant seriously only a joke and that she's depressed and he misses the laugh they have at work. He says I'm the woman he loves and wants to be with and that he wouldn't have an affair.
I told him that joke or not you don't suggest those things to another woman and that this hurts just as much as him sleeping with her, that I would like to be made to feel valued never mind her.
He says its really only said in jest and that its not meant serious and that he shouldn't say something's sometimes, he not having an EA he doesn't want to be with anyone else.
So about now, I'd just let it go and carry on as nothings happened, like I did a year ago. But it will raise it's head again won't it? Part of me will always feel like he wishes he could be with her, especially if she's so sad and he wants to make her feel better...

I don't think it's her specifically. It's not about a specific woman at all. It's about him thinking it's acceptable to send flirty messages to anyone who isn't his wife.

A joke? I'd like to see how funny he would find it if you started sending messages like that to other men. Ask him how he'd feel if you had text another man saying that you'd got quite excited at the thought of him in just his pants.

He may well be telling the truth about loving you and wanting to spend the rest of his life with you. However, that isn't necessarily the same thing as treating you with respect or remaining faithful for the duration of your marriage. And if he believes he can do all that while sending messages like this, he is exactly the sort of deluded man who thinks he has far too much self-control to have an affair and then finds himself doing just that the first time the opportunity presents itself. Right now he feels safe because he doesn't see this woman. What would happen I wonder if he accidentally found himself at a business meeting in a hotel where she also happened to be...

I don't want to sow the seeds of doubt in your mind, and I'm sorry if this is upsetting, but unless he 'gets' why this behaviour is wrong, your marriage is on really shaky ground.

I know they have bought each other daft presents, he never tells me but I have found out

They've what?! How has he bought presents? Does he know where she lives or are these weird virtual presents? Either way for me this is beyond an EA but not quite a physical affair. I'd be furious, snooping or no snooping.

What on earth does he think he's doing?

Fore the rule of thumb on whether conversations in rl or online are appropriate is this:- would I be happy for my dh to hear/read it.

You are not over reacting.

Can I suggest you get "just good friends" by Shirley Glass.

They swapped them at work, he bought her a stuffed toy for her birthday last year, she sent him a text when she was away in France with a picture of it and saying thank you, she buys him things back from her holidays, just food/sweets things like that, well as far as a I know.
Its not just this, its lack of time spent with me as well, he loves the gym and fitness so much he spends all his time and effort on that rather than on 'couply' stuff or on the house. I'm starting to wonder if when we do have a baby everything will be left to me because he doesn't want to stop all his interests.
I've often wondered if rules should be in place but then thought that would be controlling in itself. He doesn't have to lift a finger around the house and when I moan about it, its turned back again because I work from home twice a week and my job isn't that difficult.
When we argued about this texting thing before he's often said 'fine, I'll just not have any friends at all then.' That then makes me feel incredibly guilty and controlling.
I did ask him how he'd feel and he said he'd be fine because he trusts me entirely, again makes me feel guilty.
The thing is I wouldn't and he knows I wouldn't I honestly don't see anything attractive in anyone. I'm so scared and sad.

I doubt he's having an affair but I wouldn't put up with this though. It's too flirty, too often and behind your back.

He sounds manipulative and immature - 'fine, I'll just not have any friends at all then.'

It sounds as though you're on your own in your marriage and doesn't respect you at all. You're just the ball and chain - He doesn't have to lift a finger around the house and when I moan about it, its turned back again because I work from home twice a week and my job isn't that difficult.

Do you get anything out of being married to him? It doesn't sound like it and I definitely wouldn't be having a baby with him because I suspect if you do have one, your situation will be even worse than it is now.

Lots to think about, I think.

Thanks for your honesty. I was just hoping to find out that I wasn't mad or a b*h for being upset about this.
I will see what he has to say tonight, I just hope that it doesn't revolve around making me feel guilty for not letting him have a friend.

But it will revolve around making you feel guilty.
It's a script! It's what they do!!
Minimise and normalise!
This is NOT OK.
I have a great male friend who I used to work with.
Still keep in touch - a lovely guy.
I've bought him presents for birthday as he has me.
But..... We do NOT sext each other or anything like that.
If she is JUST a friend, why doesn't he speak to her like a friend?
Would you have these conversations with your friends? Male or female? Of course you wouldn't. It's not right and it's not appropriate.
You certainly should NOT be putting up with this.
I would seriously be packing him a bag right now.
Having a chat with him and if he didn't agree to call it all off with her I would be kicking him out of the door!
This IS and EA by the way - it may have even have gone slightly beyond this point.
As a PP says - stop TTC with this man. He is NOT committed to you right now in any way.
I hope he says the right things later but I could bet you a lot of money that he will play the guilt/blame game.

Hi OP

Someone else has mentioned the Shirley Glass book and I also recommend this is a good place for you to start.

No this isn't right and no you're not a mad bitch

I have friends, male and female but I don't message any in that overly flirty tone that you gave us examples of. I save that for my DH.

If someone messaged me like that it would make me feel uncomfortable.

He is following the deny, delete, minimise script I'm afraid.

I wouldn't be TTC at the moment if I were you. You two seem to have lost your connection.

The other red flag for me is, are you sure he's at the gym...?

tell him to FUCK RIGHT OFF

Yes he's at the gym, he loves to show everyone on FB what he's doing, how long for and how many calories he's burnt, weights he's lifted!
One of those!
I'm not painting a good picture of him at all, last week I felt ok, wasn't thinking about the messages or anything just ticked off I was doing all the cleaning again, but obvs finding these messages again has got me in a tizz, wondering what's on his phone if this was just FB.
I'm really not sure what I'm going to do. I'll have to have a good think about it. I thought we were together forever.

So, I think it went better than i was expecting, although he was late home, not a good start and upset me more, said he was stuck at work & traffic. I think it was fear of confrontation.
He didn't turn anything around, he apologised, lots. Said it was stupid and innapropriate and even though he meant nothing by the messages he can see that it looks bad, said he absolutely 100% does not want to be with anyone else and has no feelings for this woman other than friends. He DID try to play it down as a joke and nothing, but thanks to getting your perspective on here (i'm not good with putting my feelings into words, especially when I doubt myself so much), I told him it's not ok to try and normalise this as just a joke, that it hurts and is as good as cheating because of the amount of time he spends talking to her/thinking about her. I told him I was angry with myself for sweeping it under the rug for a year and said this wasn't just going to go away. I told him that his not thinking about what he says is breaking my heart and he's completley taking me for granted. I said I deserved better.
I hope I did well? Last year, I ended up apologising to him for not being very interesting and said he was allowed to have girlfriends that I don't know.
After this, I think he's abused that right. It's not fair to me to keep wondering. So I said I need to be able to regularly look at his phone. He needs to stop texting this woman. I said if she's that depressed I'm sure she can get help and self worth from her family and other friends, not from a married man. He needs to lay off how often he's on his phone and pick up some slack around the house! (I threw that in for good measure!)
I can't leave him, not over this. I love him so very much, I know what i've said above paints him as an absolute moron and admittedly he is a selfish man, but he's always been that way. He' does have a lot of heart and I'm hoping this is a blip that we can get over and not chuck away 10 years.
I've allowed myself to be a doormat and it's got to stop, You are absolutely right that if I carry on allowing this to happen i could find myself in a position where he has an affair. He says he would never, but I'm sure so do most men that do.
Thank you for helping me to realise that I wasn't being totally unreasonable, thats the reason i needed to post. I don't have many close friends, the only one I can talk to has her own problems and as tempting as it is to talk to my mother, who I'm so close to, she already has a low opinion of him, I can't burn that bridge.
I was thinking of getting some couples counselling, to help me be more assertive and to help him understand that marriage needs boundaries, not as a form of control more as protection? Do you think we can get that kind of help? Has anyone had any experience?

Well done for dealing with this head on. I think you've done absolutely the right thing.

I do think you need to put some thought in to what this looks like now. If you're not clear on how tonight will be different to last Friday night, the danger is nothing will change and you'll be in the same, if not worse, position this time next year. For example, when is it reasonable that the phone is in a cupboard so your partner is actively engaged with the kids and you?

On a completely immature note.... In my family a winky is a willy so I chuckled at your references to winky face :)

It doesn't sound good. Though as he knows you can see the messages I don't think he thinks he's doing anything wrong. If tell him it's unacceptable and to stop the excessive flirting. I don't think it's gone any further though imo