Talking about sex leads to not wanting sex. How to resolve?

[IDontWannaTalkAboutIt]

NC.

DW and I have been going through some issues, partly (not wholly) stemming from a lack of sex and intimacy in general. We both have noticed these issues and both want to change it for the better. I think/hope we're heading in the right direction on a lot of ways, talking more etc.

Trouble is, when it comes to sex, DW has never liked to talk about it. What I mean is, any flirting or suggestion of sex (eg flirty texts, or suggestive talk, eye contact etc) makes DW think there's an 'expectation' that we will DTD later and that puts her off. FWIW the 'expectation' for me is part of the allure of sex (ie the physical act in a way is just part of the whole thing), but I can see maybe why DW wouldn't feel the same about it.

As a simple example, if someone said to me in the morning "let's have sex tonight", I'd spend the day excitedly looking forward to the night. DW would spend it getting nervous and psyching herself out. Not saying you should regiment your days like this, just an example.

How do you try and work on your sexual life when talking about it seems guaranteed to put one of you off? Not talking about it isn't going to work, but talking about it doesn't feel like it will either...

Unfortunately not all of us are the same ! You need to find what her triggers are .... Or is she just too knackered ? Ie if you offer to help or arrange for help with children or housework etc ask if she'd like to go away for a weekend, just the two of you, to recharge your batteries and refind eachother ?
Personally, if my fella sent me a dirty text spelling out exactly what he was going to do to me when he got home, I'd be hot to trot !!! But maybe go for a more subtle approach with your wife as she seems not to have the same response. Like 'I had a flash back of when we did bla bla bla in the Bla bla and it made me grin like a looney, thank you for that awesome memory xxx ' it's still sexy, but it's not demanding, it's showing you think she's sexy and that you love her.
Hope that works !!

"Let's have sex tonight" is a suggestion to have sex so of course there's an expectation involved. It doesn't constitute "talking about sex" any more than "Let's have a cup of tea" constitutes talking about tea.

You need to take sex off the menu for the time being and actually talk.

What if you said let's have sex tonight and she said ok, but then later, when the time came, she didn't feel like it after all.

Surely, for her, it is better not to plan it but just be more spontaneous?

Sorry, I might not have been clear - saying "let's have sex tonight" is not something I have actually done, it was an example. The reality is much more acute. Like if I compliment DW in a way that might be suggestive, or make a vague allusion to sex (not in a 'let's do it now/later' way, in a completely open-ended way), that's the sort of thing that would cause a problem. I don't do that very often anymore anyway, but not because I don't think she's attractive.

faire sometimes she might say or even suggest it herself, but then later has somehow psyched herself out.

But the spontanaeity thing doesn't work either, because it all seems a bit sudden. Like, we don't talk about it, we don't lead up to it at all for days/weeks. So if someone initiates, it's all out of the blue and you have to go from zero interest to full interest immediately. Or someone gets rejected or feels uncomfortable.

Can I be very frank?

I have always found that if it is made clear and thoroughly understood that if one person (the more nervous one, generally, in this case your DW) doesn't fancy it at the crunch point, they are completely at liberty to say they aren't in the mood, then it lays the foundations for more, better, and more relaxed sex in the future. This has to be TOTALLY with the understanding that the other party won't throw their toys out of the pram or sulk. If they can cuddle up and be reassuring, all the better.

Only when you take the pressure out of the equation can you hope to mutually enjoy the flirtatious anticipation of sex-to-come.

This sort of approach, and explaining that that is how you view it (and MEAN IT), will reap dividends.

If I'm wrong, you've lost nothing, but that's my experience.

Hi BOF - frank is fine

That has been my approach for a while, ie either of us (but tbh it's never likely to be me) can say they aren't in the mood and that's fine. And it has been, ie no sulking or huffing and blowing, just cuddles and go to sleep in each other's arms. But even this makes DW a bit unhappy because she knows I would want it (even if I'm fine with not) and it hasn't happened. She feels pressure even in that situation. This is hard, because I feel like there is no possible way I can react or behave that would put DW at ease. And i want her to be - I'm not looking for sex as a gratification for me, but something we both enjoy and can share.

Our couples counsellor has suggested being more frank and open about talking about sex (ie on the basis that maybe not talking or making assumptions about how the other feels is actually creating a problem). But I don't know how to start those chats without it becoming an issue. Clearly one to raise in our next session but I wondered if any sage MN heads had any ideas

I'm sorry but I don't understand, why doesn't your wife like sex? You say she psyches herself up? It's not supposed to be a chore, it's very enjoyable! Or should be... Does she have abuse issues, young children? Please explain.

I was thinking along the same lines as Scarlet. What are the things we psyche ourselves up/out about? Exams, performances, something that has bad connotations for us, something we don't enjoy.

Perhaps your wife needs to figure out what she feels about sex in these moments and why. Not so she always says yes, but to make her feel better about it and not stress.

Scarlet, toes I'm inclined to agree, I don't understand why it's like this. We do have young DC but not babies anymore.

When we do dtd, it's not that she doesn't enjoy it, have orgasms etc so I'm hoping it's not just that she doesn't like it full stop.

But then I don't know how to delicately ask if there's something wrong. I suspect even if I did the reply would be "nothing", but I wouldn't be sure if that was true or just avoiding the question.

In our earlier years it wasn't like this at all.

(perhaps I mean, I wouldn't know how to ask in a way that would not just get a response of "nothing")

I'm basically like your wife.

If I feel sex is expected it does put me off.
Good anticipation is good, but if it feels like an order "let's have sex(!)", then it's odd putting. And sexting during the day feels like pressure.

I like to feel I can choose. And the feeling that you'd expect it is off - which makes me wonder if you have other controlling behaviours at home.

You can still build up for it yourself by courting her properly. Try being loving and affectionate. Try complimenting her. Try doing something special that will make her feel appreciated. Romance her, almost as if you were dating.
And don't tell her, ask her: do you think you might feel like having sex tonight?
Even if that is too much, then just act don't ask.

Essentially talk to her about sex, properly. Ie. ask her what works for her and what she suggests.

Sorry I had't read the whole thread properly.

Still, don't ask what the problem is.
Ask her how shell feel more relaxed about it.

And I can't see what's wrong in being sudden.
I could ask you what's wrong with you too. And you'd say nothing. :)

Further to the previous post. If some gestures feel like pressure to sex, it's because you don't do them often.
Your wife should feel loved all the time. And then she might go to you and ask for it...

In our earlier years it wasn't like this at all

Make a list of everything that's changed since then. There will be a lot of things. Including less free time, more responsibility, body changes, etc.

Perhaps, you could do this together.

You might be able to identify the problem - it might be more than one factor. How old is your dw?

Also, sorry to say but it may be that she just doesn't love you anymore and therefore doesn't actually want to have sex at all with you.

Lweji I do take your point that some gestures of affection could be seen as coercive, possibly - but I don't feel like I am that way. Maybe a fly on the wall would say different but I feel like I am genuinely affectionate and loving every day, irrespective of any sexual feelings and in a totally relaxed way.

I like your question "how would you feel more relaxed?" It's quite simple and non-confrontational.

Faire we're both early thirties. I am completely convinced that we love each other. There is a nagging doubt in the back of my mind that maybe she doesn't find me attractive and doesn't want to have sex with me any more, and she's not telling me this because of possible consequences to the family (not that I even know myself what my reaction to that would be). But it doesn't feel like something I would ask (it's a very pressured question), and in any event if DW is putting up a pretence it's unlikely that she'd admit it like that.

FYI we've been together over ten years and I am currently in as good as or better physical shape than I've ever been, so it's not like I've slipped into slobbiness or let myself go, or anything.

In our earlier years DW often took the lead on things (not always, just often), was quite adventurous etc. I'm not saying all that has to come back, just to explain that it's hard for me to fathom how we're at this point. It's not like I always took the lead and DW was passive and things have petered out, but that it's a complete change. People can change, I know - but we can't even really talk about it. Does that make sense?

(oh, and because I've read that and it sounds like it's just about me, I consider DW as attractive as ever. DC will change a woman's body, of course, but I've always told and meant it to DW that she is beautiful. I don't think she has big issues about her body image, and she really does look really good)

(oh, and because I've read that and it sounds like it's just about me, I consider DW as attractive as ever

That is still about you! How does she feel about her body? You might think she looks great but it's a very rare woman that is happy with her body.

People can change, I know - but we can't even really talk about it. Does that make sense?

No, not really.

Could you say, I used to like sprouts but I'm not so keen on them now. Or I used to enjoy partying all night long but now I prefer a quiet meal out with friends.

I'm not talking about your sex life, I'm talking about all the changes, house moves, job changes, dreams, fears, expectations, etc.

All those things couples talk about. Are you saying you can't talk about anything?